Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem

[Mt Spokane Photography]

[quote author=Mt Spokane Photography]

There are plenty of web sites that do competent testing of products, and a few that don't.

I'd suggest that you take advantage of advice from the many good photographers on this site, and go to some of the premiere test sites and read actual test reports rather than taking posters in forums at face value. Many forums have some really good photographers, but the test sites tend to be a cut above because they have expensive software and the knowhow to avoid the pitfalls that do it your self experts step into.

When was the last time one of the websites you mention have found a bug in one of the products they have tested? Found! Not just reported.

The light leak bug in the 5D MK3.
Not a bug some say.. yet canon has fixed it.

The "white rubber" issue.

Tons of other examples where the "Bugfinder" are ordinary people in photography forums.

A testchart and other testgear will not help you find issues outside their line of use.
Review sites are usually in a hurry to get their reviews out. Longtime tests.. who does them, beside Lensrentals?

Don´t be naive. No review websites can test everything.
It is the same as with car magazines.
If you would believe them no car ever would need a recall.
[/quote]

All of the things you mention were investigated or reported on the major sites. I haven't heard of the light leak causing a actual issue, since you must have a lens cap on to detect it. Likewise, the white rubber issue has been around off and on for at least 30 years, and affected Minolta and Nikon most. They did not acknowledge or fix it, while
canon did.

Its true, tons of people find Bugs that are a issue, and 100 times more that cannot be confirmed. The issue comes when knowledgeable testers all over the world have not been able to find the issue, and even more amazing if 35% of the owners in Germany are so good at testing that they have found it.

I'm a skeptic, but there are certain people who I have followed over the past 20 years that have a good record for careful testing. Most test sites do not just test in a lab, but also test in the field, people throw up the "Real World" excuse because careful testing does not support their theory, rather than using it in conjunction with lab tests. I have had and operated a lab that did reports for Nasa, and we do look at standard tests, and certainly cannot test for everything, so having lots of users reporting issues they find is a good thing, but that does not mean that even 0.001 percent are actual problems. Most of them turn out to be operator error, or defective equipment.

 

[3kramd5]

Roger Cicala: "Why You Can't Optically Test Your Lens With Autofocus"

While Roger is correct, that has zero bearing on this topic.

 

[ishdakuteb]

still remember those days before i was making a final decision to buy my canon 7d, went on internet to do bunch of research. what i got were number of complains on canon 7d focus problems. there was a little hesitate about making a final call, i decided to go to best buy and tried it myself before pulling a trigger. i ended up buying canon 7d with carrying a thought...

1. if there was focus problem found, then i would return it,
2. buying canon 7d will save the quite a bit of money for coming canon 5d mark iii

now, i am still using it without any problems so far. however, there was a time that i had focus hunt problem with canon 7d, that was the time when i was trying to focus on a humming bird:

1. In a frame with bright sky and bird was relatively kinda small in the frame,
2. With single focus point,
3. Full range of zoom, on canon 70-200mm is mark ii, was set

why was that? setup and try to see where is the problem... however, there is a easy test on this... have one person sitting by a window that lit up with a bright light, try to focus on that person to see how fast and how accurate you can nail the focus...

disclaimer: i am not a pro. nor a person who has used slr for 20 years. i am just a hobbyist sitting at home learning digital photography after working hours (yes, sometimes during work hours too lol...). my main target now is post processing, but still not forgetting about practicing everyday... sometimes with camera, sometimes with thoughts

changing a brand is not a choice to me since i do believe that if someone can deliver a good image with my current system while i am not able to, that is my fault... not learning enough... and i have invested quite a big on current setup...

 

[steve25]

Here are links about this:

Well, the first video is a useless joke. Evidence? I see none. Zero information about the lens used, the camera settings, or the set up. The most obvious answer to that "problem" is that the lens needs AFMA – sharper with live view than with phase AF is the easiest test to determine that. I chuckled at the claim that "a good knowledge of photography" is necessary to detect the problem. That's what we call irony. :

The second video says exactly what I just said – the focus was off with the 50/1.4 at f/1.4, and AFMA corrected the problem. Duh. He then goes on to suggest there is, in fact, a problem with some cameras – but he has no evidence for that, except "some people on the Internet say"…

Were these two videos the best 'evidence' you could come up with? I think the only problems you're seeing are wetware errors – the person holding the camera is the issue.

Have you seen these videos? are they joke as well? Some newbies experimenting with the latest game changer from Canon? http://youtu.be/_9Qm4CEjz4U. If the language is a problem, this video may help uderstanding the issue better http://youtu.be/cA6JnzYSDJE

 

[Loswr]

Have you seen these videos? are they joke as well? Some newbies experimenting with the latest game changer from Canon?

If the language is a problem, this video may help uderstanding the issue better

In the first video, it's often hard to tell if a resulting shot shown on the 70D's LCD is sharp or not - the video was apparently shot handheld and the cameraperson is moving back and forth a lot, so that LCD is often blurry due to poor focus of the video. A lot of newbies shoot poor video like that, then they discover something called a tripod. : I do get the gist of the problem, though. As for correcting it with AFMA, I would not expect selecting AFMA values apparently at random would be an appropriate way to see if AFMA is beneficial. The fact that he's a well-known reviewer doesn't mean he necessarily knows what he's doing. I've pointed out issues with his testing previously.

As for the second video, perhaps you missed the update: "I sent my 70D into the Canon Service center and now have it back. They responded that image sensor was incorrect and electronic adjustments were made. I have just started preliminary testing and can say that the difference between live view and viewfinder sharpness is still noticeable and sometime significant but seems to be almost completely corrected with AF Micro Adjustments – something that was not possible before."

That sounds like exactly what I stated previously…if you think your camera is defective, send it to Canon, and if they find it to be defective, they'll fix it…as they did in the case above. The difference in sharpness between Live View and SIR-PDAF is normally correctable with AFMA.

So far, I see a couple of cameras that appear defective, one of which was repaired by Canon. Not counting a few 'me, too' Internet forum posts backed up by poor testing or none at all, it's not exactly consistent with a 'widespread problem'. If it really is a widespread issue, Canon will figure it out by cameras sent in for repair, not by posts on the Internet.

 

[robbinzo]

I agree with what Neuro said regarding AFMA.
My 70D works just fine once the AFMA is set up for each of my lenses. The main issue was with my 50 f/1.4 which gives much better AF results using liveview AF. I actually now prefer to use the liveview for portraits because the dual pixel AF is so good. It is worth buying the 70D for the liveview dual pixel AF alone. Have I mentioned that the dual pixel AF rocks?
I upgraded from the 550D and it's perfect for me.

 

[JAFAR]

Got 70D from US Amazon. After shooting on the field I have noticed there are issues with AF.

Dual Pixel AF is just fantastic helps in many situations but viewfinder AF is useless.

I tried to micro adjust AF but it is even worse.

Tested on Sigma 35mm Art, Canon 24-105mm F4.

I switch on AF points to be visible on the camera screen (in gallery mode) and 2 of 10 photos are in focus.

on Canon lens AF problem is not easy noticeable but seems it still exists at f4.

 

[MYB]

Hi, there is two topic about this, writing here too.
I have Sigma 17-70mm F/2.8-4 C there was a focus problem at wide angles. I tried with different lenses. Tamron 17-50mm F/2.8 ( i can't call it test, just a few photos ) no mistake. Canon 70-200mm F/2.8 II ( a lot of photos with different combination ) first not good but after microadjustment it's perfect. Than i retuned my Sigma 17-70mm F/2.8-4 C and tried microadjustment again. Not perfect but better. Maybe AFMA works not very well with third party lenses or i couldn't do it properly.
I figured that with my camera, single ( center ) point af works very good, all 19 point also nice but zone af not sharp. I'm not saying it can't focusing but it doesn't as sharp as center point. AF sensor is same with 7D but maybe system is different and it can't perform like the 7D. Or i'm just new with DSLR
My opinion, I'm sure my camera is not effected.

I'm not good at English, i'm from Türkiye. Sorry if i said something wrong.

 

[Tugela]

I'm not good at English, i'm from Türkiye. Sorry if i said something wrong.

You spelled "Turkey" incorrectly.

It is shocking when someone cannot spell the name of their own country properly!!

 

[Arty]

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

 

[MYB]

I'm not good at English, i'm from Türkiye. Sorry if i said something wrong.

You spelled "Turkey" incorrectly.

It is shocking when someone cannot spell the name of their own country properly!!

You call "Turkey" we call "Türkiye" which is more true?

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[privatebydesign]

I'm not good at English, i'm from Türkiye. Sorry if i said something wrong.

You spelled "Turkey" incorrectly.

It is shocking when someone cannot spell the name of their own country properly!!

You call "Turkey" we call "Türkiye" which is more true?

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

Thank you for understanding.

MYB, I think you will find Tugela was just making a light hearted joke, they didn't mean it as an insult, you can tell by the emoticon after the comment.


Arty, why would you assume Tugela is from the USA? Also, didn't you notice the wink emoticon, he/she was clearly making a joke. Admittedly that often translates even worse than writing as so few people seem to have a sense of humour [sic]. Oh, and the Americans are not the only people to rename foreign, to them, places in a way more suitable for pronunciation in their own language.

 

[MYB]

I saw emoticon, i've also used emoticon. I didn't understand something wrong. No problem, we are just talking.

 

[Tugela]

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

It depends what language you are speaking. All languages rename foreign cities and countries based on their own rules and pronunciations. No doubt the United States of America is called something else in Turkey.

Using the Turkish spelling for "Turkey" is proper when you are speaking Turkish, but when you are using English (as we are on this board), the correct spelling is "Turkey".

 

[wickidwombat]

I'm not good at English, i'm from Türkiye. Sorry if i said something wrong.

You spelled "Turkey" incorrectly.

It is shocking when someone cannot spell the name of their own country properly!!

You call "Turkey" we call "Türkiye" which is more true?

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

Thank you for understanding.

Don't even get me started on the ENGLISH words Americans are unable to spell correctly...

 

[KeVir]

Have gone through the POTN thread and some people there are even implying that people "without" this problem do not know how to use their cameras. So, I guess the people posting excellent shots on the 70d sample thread don't know how to use their 70ds.

Ah - the dreaded "Dunning-Kruger Effect":

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."


"The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task.

This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid."

LOLOLOVE IT!

 

[MichaelHodges]

Here are links about this:

Well, the first video is a useless joke. Evidence? I see none. Zero information about the lens used, the camera settings, or the set up. The most obvious answer to that "problem" is that the lens needs AFMA – sharper with live view than with phase AF is the easiest test to determine that. I chuckled at the claim that "a good knowledge of photography" is necessary to detect the problem. That's what we call irony. :

The second video says exactly what I just said – the focus was off with the 50/1.4 at f/1.4, and AFMA corrected the problem. Duh. He then goes on to suggest there is, in fact, a problem with some cameras – but he has no evidence for that, except "some people on the Internet say"…

Were these two videos the best 'evidence' you could come up with? I think the only problems you're seeing are wetware errors – the person holding the camera is the issue.

Have you seen these videos? are they joke as well? Some newbies experimenting with the latest game changer from Canon? http://youtu.be/_9Qm4CEjz4U. If the language is a problem, this video may help uderstanding the issue better http://youtu.be/cA6JnzYSDJE

Thanks for posting. I'll look for these potential issues next week when I rent a 70d for kicks.

 

[MichaelHodges]

Got 70D from US Amazon. After shooting on the field I have noticed there are issues with AF.

I'm hearing this from many of my photog friends. Thanks for the head's up.

 

[bdunbar79]

I am amazed that Americans think that they can rename cities and countries for other people. He has the spelling correct in Turkish. Americans call Firenze "Florence" and Padova "Padua." Of course, the people in Italy don't know the names of their own cities, Firenze and Padova.

It depends what language you are speaking. All languages rename foreign cities and countries based on their own rules and pronunciations. No doubt the United States of America is called something else in Turkey.

Using the Turkish spelling for "Turkey" is proper when you are speaking Turkish, but when you are using English (as we are on this board), the correct spelling is "Turkey".

Who cares?

 

[noncho]

I have 70D and yesterday I have encountered this problem with central focus point.

Sigma 18-35 1.8 lens:
Central point at 1.8, more than 50% miss
Other points at 1.8, less than 10% miss

I'm very disappointed.