Canon 70d RAW Samples

[silvestography]

Seems that the Imaging Resource has some samples of 70d RAW images at all ISO's. Obviously we can't actually do anything with these files since RAW support for the 70d doesn't exist yet, but still exciting.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-70d/canon-70dA7.HTM

 

[Marsu42]

Obviously we can't actually do anything with these files since RAW support for the 70d doesn't exist yet, but still exciting.

You're getting excited quite easily ... I suspect raw support for the 70d will take about 1 month, for the 6d Capture One was faster then Adobe Camera Raw, so it's worth checking both. But to dampen excitement a bit, except for the dynamic range I'd be *very* surprised if there were any hidden positive surprises in the cr2.

 

[japhoto]

If I recall right, Lightroom 5.2 RC supports the 70D already...

 

[Marsu42]

If I recall right, Lightroom 5.2 RC supports the 70D already...

You're indeed correct, they seem to be pressed by the 5.0 release as there even isn't a 5.1 - but it's only "preliminary" support for 70d which implies the optimizations that could make a difference to in-camera jpeg might not be in there yet.

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/07/lightroom-5-2-rc-now-available-on-adobe-labs.html

... but it'd be still interesting if someone has the time and willingness to do a 60d-70d raw comparison with the links provided in the op.

 

[racso]

Hi!
For what it's worth...
I downloaded DPP 3.13.20 with support for the 70D and compared the imaging-resources samples from 70D/7D @ ISO 3200.
The 70D actually shows less noise and according to the histogram about half a stop more DR, all lights being equal...
Take a look at the screenshot @ 100% pixel peeping! (70D to the left), at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5310069/70d_7d.tif

 

[silvestography]

Hi!
For what it's worth...
I downloaded DPP 3.13.20 with support for the 70D and compared the imaging-resources samples from 70D/7D @ ISO 3200.
The 70D actually shows less noise and according to the histogram about half a stop more DR, all lights being equal...
Take a look at the screenshot @ 100% pixel peeping! (70D to the left), at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5310069/70d_7d.tif

Thanks for doing this! I was going to but I was too busy playing with the files...

What I found is that there's a bit less color noise in the midtones and shadows and what does show up looks a lot more like film grain. I also found that you can add a bit more NR to the files than I was able to with my t3i before it starts looking too soft. Obviously, I'm still interested in seeing some real world testing as well (in addition to how it performs at the 1/3 stop increment ISO's), but this is looking like a solid upgrade from my current camera.

 

[x-vision]

For what it's worth...

Thanks for doing this indeed. Much appreciated.

The 70D is noticeably cleaner in this comparison.

 

[CarlTN]

Hi!
For what it's worth...
I downloaded DPP 3.13.20 with support for the 70D and compared the imaging-resources samples from 70D/7D @ ISO 3200.
The 70D actually shows less noise and according to the histogram about half a stop more DR, all lights being equal...
Take a look at the screenshot @ 100% pixel peeping! (70D to the left), at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5310069/70d_7d.tif

That's a ho-hum improvement in my opinion. 4 years and that's the only improvement Canon can do? Makes me glad I abandoned 1.6x crop altogether. The recent rumor that the 7D2 will likely get the same sensor as the 70D, is also a bit disappointment.

 

[x-vision]

That's a ho-hum improvement in my opinion.

It's a good improvement - just not the 1-2 stops improvement that switching to the 6D, for example, can provide 8).

Oh well. In case there have been any doubts, it should be clear by now that huge jumps
in image quality between successive sensor generations are just not possible ... unfortunately.

 

[silvestography]

Also, for those interested, here's a 100% crop comparison @ISO 3200 of the 70d and the d7100, which everybody's been dubbing the king of APS-C high ISO performance.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xu53htrho7zc4lb/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-04%20at%202.45.22%20PM.png

Having a look around the image, here are my observations:
- 70d's grain looks bigger, but this most likely has to do with resolution and pixel pitch (70d's 4.11µm vs d7100's 3.9µm)
- d7100 exhibits more color noise in the shadows
- 70d is brighter by roughly 1/3 stop
- Both retain detail equally well (although the nikon looks sharper due to more MP and a better lens)
- The nikon is green (surprise surprise)

The point has been made that APS-C sensor tech is most likely reaching a plateau, and I agree. The take-home is that these two cameras are performing equally well, and just about as well as any crop camera is going to perform these days.

 

[Marsu42]

The point has been made that APS-C sensor tech is most likely reaching a plateau, and I agree.

I was getting curious and took the pain to convert the raw samples with the (preliminary) ACR inside the LR 5.2 rc... and look in awe what nearly half a decade of crop sensor development has resulted in! Well, if you look closely you might see a small difference, but for my money iso 800 seems to remain the highest good setting:

 

[Marsu42]

Also, if you enjoy a good laugh here's the newest crop sensor vs the good ol' ff from the 6d :-> ... the larger sensor nearly has a 2 stop edge, though probably not at the same dynamic range:

 

[x-vision]

... and look in awe what nearly half a decade of crop sensor development has resulted in!

Well, if you look at the competition, the latest 24mp sensors from Sony and Toshiba are no different from the 70D.
Also look at FF: how big is the difference between the 5DMKII (2008) and 6D/5DMKIII (2012)?

Sensor tech may not have reached a plateau but it has definitely reached maturity. For both APS-C and FF.
So, enhancements are becoming more and more incremental rather than groundbreaking.

Thanks for making these comparisons available, btw.

 

[heptagon]

But how does it look like when comparing ISO 100?

 

[RLPhoto]

If you didn't say these were from the 70D, I couldn't tell the difference between that and a 7D. Nice work canon.

:|

 

[Marsu42]

But how does it look like when comparing ISO 100?

The differences for low iso are dynamic range, maybe a little sharpness depending on lens/sensor combination but esp. gradients and shadow post processing capability... in the plain color chart you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but feel free to download LR5.2rc yourself and post a comparison

If you didn't say these were from the 70D, I couldn't tell the difference between that and a 7D.

There *might* be more headroom for noise reduction in the 20mp crop sensor, just like 5d2->5d3, but I didn't test that as it's not the final raw converter. But yes, the sensor isn't a reason to upgrade on its own.

 

[CarlTN]

That's a ho-hum improvement in my opinion.

It's a good improvement - just not the 1-2 stops improvement that switching to the 6D, for example, can provide 8).

Oh well. In case there have been any doubts, it should be clear by now that huge jumps
in image quality between successive sensor generations are just not possible ... unfortunately.

The Nikon D7100's sensor is still superior to the 70D's (in DR and noise...and resolution)...not that I like Nikon as a company or a system. But there you go...it is possible to get a better crop sensor...by switching to Nikon...or even Sony.

Again, this makes me very disappointed in the future 7D2. It was supposed to be a "professional level" crop camera. Well, the sensor doesn't look like it will be professional level. It's a 2014 camera...5 years after the 7D's debut.

Obviously crop sensor performance will never be a priority for Canon...at least not before 2020 at this rate. I'm not even sure how seriously they have ever taken crop sensor performance, but it seems like it meant more to them before 2008, than it does now. And there will be 50 different "rebel" and "M" models using this sensor, as if it's some kind of magical device...YAWN...

 

[David Hull]

... and look in awe what nearly half a decade of crop sensor development has resulted in!

Well, if you look at the competition, the latest 24mp sensors from Sony and Toshiba are no different from the 70D.
Also look at FF: how big is the difference between the 5DMKII (2008) and 6D/5DMKIII (2012)?

Sensor tech may not have reached a plateau but it has definitely reached maturity. For both APS-C and FF.
So, enhancements are becoming more and more incremental rather than groundbreaking.

Thanks for making these comparisons available, btw.

I understand why people are comparing these things on the top end of the ISO scale (a lot of people are concerned about low light performance) but I don't understand why people are expecting to see dramatic differences there. As you point out, there haven’t been any for quite some time. For people who want the best in low light performance, that is where FF shines.

 

[jrista]

Also, if you enjoy a good laugh here's the newest crop sensor vs the good ol' ff from the 6d :-> ... the larger sensor nearly has a 2 stop edge, though probably not at the same dynamic range:

Thanks for the comparisons. Pretty excellent demonstration of the value of larger pixels at high ISO.

 

[dash2k8]

For those complaining about lack of a major upgrade in technology, I think the easiest solution is to just buy a 1DX and live merrily ever after. Face it, at 70D's price point, you're not going to get anything close to a 5D3. The target audience is enthusiasts. If you do this for a living, you're not supposed to even consider something with two numbers (xxD), right? IMHO the 70D's prelim images have shown that it is a great performer IN ITS CLASS.