Canon aiming for a $799 full-frame camera? [CR2]

EOS 4 Life

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Yes, for a lot of folks, the camera is the reason to upgrade the phone.
I guess that makes sense from a convenience stand point but an entry level dedicated camera costs less than a smartphone with a very good camera.
I have seen older phones that are cheap and have decent cameras but there are older cameras too.
 

EOS 4 Life

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The reason I am on this forum is because I have a lot of M lenses and I am still holding out hope that they come out with a better camera with IBIS and 4K and a viewfinder that will be a step up from the m6 mark ii
Canon does have a patent for IBIS in smaller cameras like the M or Rebels but I am not sure that it fits into their pricing strategy. I would hate to see that patent go to waste.
 

neuroanatomist

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Even so, many of us have been saying for months that we would be willing to pay an R6 price for an R7 that is basically the same as an R6 with the 32MP APS-C sensor in it. How many times do we have to keep repeating that?
You have to keep repeating it until pigs fly, or until enough people are saying if for Canon to listen. The former will probably happen first.
 
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unfocused

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Canon has made it VERY clear that they have no intention of ever developing APS-C only lenses in the RF mount.
Source?

I'm curious because it seems very logical that if Canon really intends to develop a crop sensor body I can't imagine why they would rule out APS-C lenses for that body, especially because the R mount allows for APS-C lenses to easily mount on a full frame or crop sensor body. Existing R bodies can take crop sensor lenses and they just automatically crop the image. If Canon were to make R mount crop sensor lenses, those lenses would simply crop to a 1:1:6 ratio when placed on a full frame body.

Oftentimes people read an interview with a Canon executive and assume that they are making a definitive statement, when, in my experience, most Canon executives are very careful never to make bold, definiitive statements, but instead usually offer qualifiers like "at this time," or "we are not currently planning."
 

mdcmdcmdc

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The 7D Mark III rumors were in 2016 and very early 2017. By late Spring of 2017 Canon had effectively let everyone know via leaks that there would be no 7D Mark III.
Michael, you made that same statement in April in a different thread, and I showed you ample evidence to the contrary there:

 

unfocused

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The following might be the source:

Yeah, you might be right. If so, this is so typical of this site (really of everything today), where people read something on the internet and assume that it is coming from a reliable source.

No attribution to Canon. No name attached to it. Just a blanket statement with no supporting facts. Plus, as I said at the time and said above, there is no need for a separate RF-S mount because all R series bodies can accept a crop-sensor lens (they just crop the image). So, saying there are no plans for an RF-S mount simply means that future crop lenses, if released, would use the same RF mount and adjust the image size automatically with a software command. Sheds no light on anything one way or the other. I'm a skeptic about a crop-sensor R body but I'm not going to treat vague statements like this as a "fact" that might support my opinion.
 

BBarn

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Nov 2, 2020
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EF mount lenses were/are full frame and EF-s lenses were /are crop frame but both shared the same EF mount. So use of the term "RF-s" carries with it the implication of a crop frame lens utilizing the existing RF mount.

If the rumors of a crop frame R series camera (and lack of crop frame RF lenses) are true, there seemingly wouldn't be any crop frame RF mount lenses. So a crop frame camera would only utilize the portion of the lens image available to the smaller sensor. But that is still different than the current crop frame function of the FF R series cameras. Instead of only utilizing a portion of the FF sensor pixels, a crop frame R series camera would utilize all of it's available pixels to capture the image.
 
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stevelee

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I guess that makes sense from a convenience stand point but an entry level dedicated camera costs less than a smartphone with a very good camera.
I have seen older phones that are cheap and have decent cameras but there are older cameras too.
If I want a better camera, I buy a better camera. Not everybody thinks that way, obviously.
 
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Michael Clark

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Those of you who want that are being ignored by Canon, most likely because there aren’t enough of you to justify making it.

Perhaps, or they think most of us will cave and eventually buy a 1D X Mark III, R3, or a second R5 instead.

But the economics of needing to spend less than the revenue one generates precludes that option for many of us. Just because one can buy a $1,700 7D Mark II and still turn a modest profit doesn't mean one can later justify paying $6,000-6,500 for a 1D X Mark II or III if there is no 7D Mark II replacement.

I still think Canon's perceived loss of 1-Series sales due to the way most 7D Mark II bodies were used is what killed it, not lack of demand. The demise of photojournalism, particularly of print journalism, is what really cut the sales numbers of 1-Series bodies in the mid 2010s.

When most print publications moved from salaried staff photographers with company provided gear to freelancers with photographer provided gear the demand for 1-series bodies each time a new one was released plummeted. Many freelancers are still using the original 2012 1D X.
 
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David - Sydney

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No, it's the fragility of the M6 Mark II with a hot shoe mounted EVF and the steps backwards the 90D takes compared to even the 7D Mark II: noticeably lower performance AF and barely more than half the shutter life rating. If the 90D had the same AF system as the 7D Mark II and the same shutter life rating I'd have bought one as soon as they came out. Two years later, though, it would have to be a mirrorless for me to pull the trigger. An M6 Mark II type camera with a built in EVF would be a consideration if it were cheap enough to account for a shorter expected service life.
3 weeks later and Michael is back in the forum!

Rent a M6ii + EVF M/EF adpater and see what you think. A 3rd party battery grip is also available.
100k actuation life span is half the 7Dii but also roughly half the price. 14fps @ 23 raw buffer depth. Single card but you are not shooting weddings.

I have always contended that the 7D series was a marketing unicorn and it looks like you are confirming that with a set of wants (fps, AF, dual card, weather sealing, pixel density etc) at a reasonable price.

I think that it is clear that Canon isn't listening to you and your market niche otherwise a 7Diii using the M6ii's sensor would have already been released.
Do you need 32mp or 20mp or 7mp?? if you are selling to parents? Be realistic with your customer's expectations. Will they print at all? If so, what size are they likely to print at? I would guess that a big print would be unusual but you can upres using PS etc.

We have provided thoughts about options/alternatives which you have been quite happy to refute based on your wants but if Canon doesn't want to release a body that you need then maybe you need to change systems :)
 
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Michael Clark

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I am curious what your Plan B is. We know that there will be no R7 this fall, which means one football season is gone. Given the delays, there is a good chance there won't be one available by fall of 2022. Will you just wait and how long will you wait, or will you consider something else?

I'm still shooting with my 7D Mark II and 70-200/2.8. It's got over 250,000 shutter actuations and counting, though.

I'm considering the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 Sport. If I could find a used one for a good price I'd probably pull the trigger. But used copies of that lens from reputable sellers are as rare as hens teeth. (Some of the NYC shysters will try to sell you the older non-Global Vision EX series version at a Global Vision series price.) Then I could use it with whatever FF body that makes the most sense. I don't much like the idea of putting the kind of mileage on my FF bodies that whatever body is hanging on my long lens for sports gets, though.

I should have probably bought another 7D Mark II when the getting was good, but I kept holding out hope that the 90D with a much better sensor would be a bit closer to the 7-series in terms of AF and durability than it turned out to be. Then I was waiting to see if we would get an EOS M5 update with the same sensor as the M6 Mark II but a built in EVF. That's apparently never going to happen, either.
 

David - Sydney

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Perhaps, or they think most of us will cave and eventually buy a 1D X Mark III, R3, or a second R5 instead.

But the economics of needing to spend less than the revenue one generates precludes that option for many of us. Just because one can buy a $1,700 7D Mark II and still turn a modest profit doesn't mean one can later justify paying $6,000-6,500 for a 1D X Mark II or III if there is no 7D Mark II replacement.
The question for Canon is determine is the number of "many of us" and what you represent to Canon overall.

You can't buy a 7Dii for a long time now. Buy a few second hand 7Dii to keep you going. Or maybe a second hand 1Dxii if your budget allows but that negates the whole reach issue that seems to be paramount for you.

Perhaps your market is disappearing and it is time to look at alternatives - which I know is a hard decision to face.
 

Michael Clark

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3 weeks later and Michael is back in the forum!

Rent a M6ii + EVF M/EF adpater and see what you think. A 3rd party battery grip is also available.
100k actuation life span is half the 7Dii but also roughly half the price. 14fps @ 23 raw buffer depth. Single card but you are not shooting weddings.

I have always contended that the 7D series was a marketing unicorn and it looks like you are confirming that with a set of wants (fps, AF, dual card, weather sealing, pixel density etc) at a reasonable price.

I was actually working being paid to freelance for a weekly newspaper covering an 11 day musical festival with dozens of events per day.

The external EVF adapter is too fragile for my use case, as I explain in another post above. Even if one can avoid occasionally being plowed over by a linebacker, the mechanics of switching bodies during a play in progress is hard on gear and it needs to be built to take that kind of punishment.


I think that it is clear that Canon isn't listening to you and your market niche otherwise a 7Diii using the M6ii's sensor would have already been released.
Do you need 32mp or 20mp or 7mp?? if you are selling to parents? Be realistic with your customer's expectations. Will they print at all? If so, what size are they likely to print at? I would guess that a big print would be unusual but you can upres using PS etc.

I don't think that is clear at all. I tend to think it is more the case that Canon is not listening to my market niche and thinks that we can afford R1, R3, an extra R5, or 1D X Mark III bodies and Big Whites if an R7 is not available. But the revenue stream at the high school/youth sports level just isn't there if one needs to be revenue positive.


We have provided thoughts about options/alternatives which you have been quite happy to refute based on your wants but if Canon doesn't want to release a body that you need then maybe you need to change systems :)

I don't know why stating the reasons the 7D Mark II made sense for me, as an R7 would also make sense, keeps being interpreted as an argument that Canon will release an R7. I've been saying for well over a year that it looks less and less likely. That doesn't negate the legitimate reasons you keep denying for why it would be useful to me.

None of the same alternatives you folks keep suggesting over and over again in post after post are acceptable for shooting night field sports or in mediocrely lit gyms. I've been doing it for years. Yet you folks who apparently have never done it keep telling me that things I know won't work will work.

If Canon doesn't release an R7, then I'll have to do the best I can with whatever is available.

Changing systems is not really much of an option at this point in terms of cost vs. revenue, which is why many who do the same thing have already gotten out of it altogether and no one is shooting marching band competitions, youth games and even tournaments that used to have multiple freelancers competing for customers. High school sports are being overrun with parents with deep pockets who give everything (most of which looks pretty crappy) away for free.
 

Michael Clark

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I don't think that Canon has ever had "affordable" >100mm f/2.8 lenses.

A 70-200mm f/2.8 for $2-2.5K is a lot more affordable than a $6K 300/2.8 or $12K 400/2.8, especially when one considers that with the long primes one still needs the 70-200mm and an additional body for shorter distances in field sports.