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If D600 is true then i think canon is pretty f..ed ...they stuck with 22 MP..i dont see any new FF camera for 1500 ..only thing they can reduce the 5d2 price to 1500..i don't see any new replacement of 5d2 ..even if they come with lower MP new FF for 1500 still D600 going to be a killer camera for the price..
briansquibb said:
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briansquibb said:
People are getting disappointed when D800 and 5D3 released. 5D3 is overpriced and looks D800 is better than 5D3 from many reviews. If Canon is just want to make money from its existing customers, Canon will see many of its customer switch to Nikon. I am one of the Canon users considering to switch to Nikon. I am just waiting to see how Canon response to Nikon D600. 39 AF points are already good enough for me. I don't really need 61 AF points. I have not problem to sell my 24-70mm because I don't really like it anyway. However, I might miss my 70-200mm MK2 if I really switch to Nikon.
Here is my true reason. I want to switch Nikon is not because Nikon makes better cameras. I want to switch to Nikon because Canon disappoints me. I feel Canon want to take advantage from its existing customers(at least me) I know many PROs have too many Canon lenses, so that will be very difficult to switch Nikon. However, Canon will see Nikon gets many of its non-PRO users. Two of 5D2 owners in my company(one is me) are really considering to switch to Nikon. We recently are doing our homework for Nikon lenses. Canon have better wake up before many of its customers switch to Nikon.
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briansquibb said:
First of all i make a living out of photography; If the rumors are true and Canon will do nothing about it than i will do what is the best for my business (regardless the fact that i use Canons cameras for about 10 years and i love Canon DSLR's). I don't afford (yet) flagship cameras like 1DS mk3, 1DX or Nikon D3X, so i will do what is the best for me and my business.
PS. i said that i will consider,....
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cliffwang said:
+1 to that!
I have been a Canon non-pro user ever since my first DSLR [350D/Rebel XT] to my current 7D and this is exactly, where I stand now.
Nikon has scored big time with the D800. The 5D3 is not bad, but essentially only what the 5D2 should have been from the start (adequate AF-system). Sensor-wise its a minimal improvement. And it gets blown out of the water by the D800 not only in terms of resolution but more importantly to me, in DR at the most used lower ISOs. There is no doubt whatsoever that the 5D 3 is way overpriced while it outta be less expensive than a D800.
If Nikon now doubles that up with a D600 at around 1.5k and if its sensor also creams the 5D3 - which I fully expect - than Canon will indeed "be toast" in the all-important non-pro, photo-enthusiast segment of the market. That is us, the guys who buy by far the largest share of higher-end, high-margin lenses and speedlites, as well as future cameras.
Especially "FF upgraders" coming from Canon APS-C with mainly EF-lenses, that they need to sell anyway, WILL be switching to Nikon in large numbers, as soon as a good, affordable D600 comes out. And while Nikon glass was generally somewhat more expensive than comparable Canon glass up until about 4 years ago, it has turned the other way round by now after many rounds of massive Canon price hikes.
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stevenrrmanir said:
The "worth it" discussion is pointless, because worth doesn't only concern if the camera fits one's requirements, but also simply how the financial background is. However, I recently asked myself if Canon didn't mess up the other way around: The could have sold the 5d3 at $4000 and most people would have still bought it!
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briansquibb
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I have no problem with people moving to Nikon. However I do think that the constant putting down of Canon to justify moving to Nikon with so called 'facts' to justify their move is not appropriate on a Canon Rumours forum. I dont logon to this forum to join in with speculation/rumours about Nikon kit.
You dont hear me critisicing Canon, Nikon or any of the other manufacturers. I have a lot of old kit which one might say is ready for replacement (from a technology point of view).
I dont say that the 5DIII is overpriced - that is a purely subjective point of view.
I dont say that the D800 is a great camera and the 5DIII is rubbish because again that is a purely subjective point of view
I cannot even say that I will upgrade 'to get the best' because I am nowhere near achieving the potential from my existing kit (even though I could fancy the latest and greatist and upgrade)
Older technologies still deliver, and deliver cheaply. My 1Ds3 is now worth about the same as a new 5DII. I would consider the 1DS3 an upgrade from a 5DII - for my photographic needs. In fact I did upgrade my 5DII to the 1DS3 when I heard the 5DIII specification - because it met my needs better. When making the decision it was made entirely on the basis of the offering from Canon. I am not angry or disappointed with Canon because the 5DIII did not meet my needs. If none of the offerings met my needs I would have had 3 options:
1. Not upgrading - the 5DII gave high IQ images, so from that point of view I didn't need to upgrade. I did loads of weddings and christenings with it without a problem
2. Wait to see if anything else was coming along - the existing kit still gave the same good IQ
3. See if any other manufacturers offerings met my needs. Unlike most, I have bought most of my kit used so I would not 'lose' a lot of money on the existing kit. Obviously moving manufacturer is a lot more than buying a new camera.
It would have been sad to move away from Canon because I have nearly 20 year experience with them - but to feel angy or disappointed with them - definitely not. And I wouldn't vent my anger against them on a Canon Forum either as they have given me a good ride for 20 years. Switching camps is one thing, abusing the other camp is another.
I have 3 cameras and a bunch of lens that are outdated but they are upto anything I would like to do.
I wonder whether sometimes people upgrade because they believe that it is the kit which is as fault rather than their ability. I bought the best kit I could afford and then started working on getting the best images and I know I haven't got there yet - I wish sometimes other people in my position would focus on improving their photographic skills rather than moan about their kit and say how the latest will improve their photos - when in fact after upgrading they just churn out the same old photos they did on their old kit - and then vent their anger at the manufacturers about the poor kit.
The 7D 'soft focus' issue was 90% user error IMHO. I have 'fixed' so many 7D's which were 'rubbish' - the 7D I have at the moment I got cheap because it 'had the problem'. It is a cracking little camera, spot on AF and decent IQ. Yet Canon got so much stick because of this. This is another case of mass hysteria - one or two people got a faulty AF unit - and vented their anger long and loud on the forums so that suddenly all the useless owners thought they had the same problem and they vented their anger on the forums until it sprialled nearly out of control. Shades of the 5DIII 'light leak' methinks.
Bottom line is:
If you dont like the offering dont buy it
If you dont like the offering it isn't the manufacturers fault
If enough people dont like the offerings then the manufacturers will offer something else or go bust
You dont hear me critisicing Canon, Nikon or any of the other manufacturers. I have a lot of old kit which one might say is ready for replacement (from a technology point of view).
I dont say that the 5DIII is overpriced - that is a purely subjective point of view.
I dont say that the D800 is a great camera and the 5DIII is rubbish because again that is a purely subjective point of view
I cannot even say that I will upgrade 'to get the best' because I am nowhere near achieving the potential from my existing kit (even though I could fancy the latest and greatist and upgrade)
Older technologies still deliver, and deliver cheaply. My 1Ds3 is now worth about the same as a new 5DII. I would consider the 1DS3 an upgrade from a 5DII - for my photographic needs. In fact I did upgrade my 5DII to the 1DS3 when I heard the 5DIII specification - because it met my needs better. When making the decision it was made entirely on the basis of the offering from Canon. I am not angry or disappointed with Canon because the 5DIII did not meet my needs. If none of the offerings met my needs I would have had 3 options:
1. Not upgrading - the 5DII gave high IQ images, so from that point of view I didn't need to upgrade. I did loads of weddings and christenings with it without a problem
2. Wait to see if anything else was coming along - the existing kit still gave the same good IQ
3. See if any other manufacturers offerings met my needs. Unlike most, I have bought most of my kit used so I would not 'lose' a lot of money on the existing kit. Obviously moving manufacturer is a lot more than buying a new camera.
It would have been sad to move away from Canon because I have nearly 20 year experience with them - but to feel angy or disappointed with them - definitely not. And I wouldn't vent my anger against them on a Canon Forum either as they have given me a good ride for 20 years. Switching camps is one thing, abusing the other camp is another.
I have 3 cameras and a bunch of lens that are outdated but they are upto anything I would like to do.
I wonder whether sometimes people upgrade because they believe that it is the kit which is as fault rather than their ability. I bought the best kit I could afford and then started working on getting the best images and I know I haven't got there yet - I wish sometimes other people in my position would focus on improving their photographic skills rather than moan about their kit and say how the latest will improve their photos - when in fact after upgrading they just churn out the same old photos they did on their old kit - and then vent their anger at the manufacturers about the poor kit.
The 7D 'soft focus' issue was 90% user error IMHO. I have 'fixed' so many 7D's which were 'rubbish' - the 7D I have at the moment I got cheap because it 'had the problem'. It is a cracking little camera, spot on AF and decent IQ. Yet Canon got so much stick because of this. This is another case of mass hysteria - one or two people got a faulty AF unit - and vented their anger long and loud on the forums so that suddenly all the useless owners thought they had the same problem and they vented their anger on the forums until it sprialled nearly out of control. Shades of the 5DIII 'light leak' methinks.
Bottom line is:
If you dont like the offering dont buy it
If you dont like the offering it isn't the manufacturers fault
If enough people dont like the offerings then the manufacturers will offer something else or go bust
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briansquibb said:
+100
I think a lot of the complainers are more into the toys, tech, comparing specs & reading charts. They need the higher ISO IQ and improved dynamic range to photograph the back of their lens cap and brick walls.
It's a shame how this forum has degraded so quickly, it used to be a place to share in a positive way.
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Nikon and Canon both have different strategies for making money.
Nikons new strategy is more bodies on the streets of the world = more $$ through lens and accessories sales
Canons new strategy is to increase prices with minimal R/D = more $$
I like Nikons way of thinking!!!
Nikons new strategy is more bodies on the streets of the world = more $$ through lens and accessories sales
Canons new strategy is to increase prices with minimal R/D = more $$
I like Nikons way of thinking!!!
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I still see a 10-1 difference in Canon to Nikon with people carrying DSLRs around NYC.
Nikon is being aggressive because they NEED to win back some of the market Canon dominates.
Canon is continuing to evolve their brand as the world evolves to a more multi-media driven place. The EOS brand now includes cinema cameras. I think it's fair to say, Canon & Nikon are evolving in different ways. Neither is right or wrong.
Choose to tools that best suits your needs. It's doesn't have to always be a fanboy battle.
Nikon is being aggressive because they NEED to win back some of the market Canon dominates.
Canon is continuing to evolve their brand as the world evolves to a more multi-media driven place. The EOS brand now includes cinema cameras. I think it's fair to say, Canon & Nikon are evolving in different ways. Neither is right or wrong.
Choose to tools that best suits your needs. It's doesn't have to always be a fanboy battle.
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briansquibb said:
Marsu, you're missing the point. It's not that i'm being a canon enthusiast or fanboy or any other name you wish to bestow on me. I'm also not saying its anyones fault for not being able to afford the camera. Heck, at the initial release, I didn't have the extra grand needed to make the purchase, but I worked hard, shot a few more big jobs, got the money and now it's mine. Is the 5d3 overpriced? I suppose you could say that. Is the 1dx overpriced? Hell yeah. Is the 1dx and 5d3 worth every penny? If you do this for a living, yes, if not, then only you can answer. I dont begrudge anyone who wants to buy a 1d series, a 5d series, or heck, anyone to move over to nikon and visa versa. it is what it is. But to post crying like a crybaby "whaaaa the camera of my dreams is out of my price range and budget and i'm so disappointed that i may jump to nikon"... who cares? Frankly after reading this forum for the last few months I'm sickened by some of the gripes... The LCD light leak.. the 5d2 had it, 40D had it, and yet NO ONE GRIPED until this camera... Now people are griping about the black AF points in the VF... it was in the 7d and granted the 19 AF were slightly bigger and spread out compared to the clustered 61 points, but I cant recall a time where I ever lost a shot because I couldn't tell or know where the AF points were... Heck, even the user manual says, depending on the mode and case scenario you have it set at, the camera will track your subject outside of the AF points should it move outside... All this whining and griping about old old issues that never seemed to affect people with older cameras just seems ridiculous to me. To gripe about the camera being more money than nikons is as ridiculous as well. It's like a guy wanting to buy a new ford f250 griping that the Dodge ram is a few thousand cheaper... Buy it, dont buy it, switch, or wait for rebates and save up in the interim. Those are your 4 options. I'm not trying to sound elitist, or a jerk, but seriously griping just for the sake of griping... makes me think we as photographers have gotten spoiled or feel entitled somehow or there's a like of nikon fanboys in canon's clothing here. Of course I'd love the 1dx at a $3000 price point but it's not going to happen.
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awinphoto said:
First off, I'd never call anybody an anything-fanboy because it doesn't help. In extreme cases, I'd point out that one's heavy investment in equipment might produce a somewhat biased point of view, but I didn't do this in this case.
awinphoto said:
For the same reason stated above, I hardly think calling me a "crybaby" is appropriate. I perfectly understand the "tool" point of view of pro photogs, and I'm trying to get some money out of this sooner or later, to. Me pointing out that I'm not sure in which system to invest in seems like a perfectly valid topic for a photography forum, and you as a "pro" should understand this very well. And I'm happy to hear different helpful opinions on why Canon is a sound system to get - sadly, yours last statement doesn't qualify.
Generally, there are enough people who like to reason about Canon's upcoming stuff, competition and strategy - this is Canon *rumors*, you know? But please feel free to not care. In this case, there is always the option to just ignore threads like "Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600".
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