Interesting interview on dpreview:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda
Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
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I am not so sure. I think it means if and when there is a 7D Mark II it is likely to be full frame.
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Oww
, i hope the 7dII wont be fullframe,
How about it will have a 1.3 crop factor!!!! (they are moving away from that in the 1d series)
Wouldn't be unthinkable that they put it in the next 7d , will improve the noise performance a bit...
So maybe a upgraded 1d mkiv sensor ! (some more mp)
, i hope the 7dII wont be fullframe,How about it will have a 1.3 crop factor!!!! (they are moving away from that in the 1d series)
Wouldn't be unthinkable that they put it in the next 7d , will improve the noise performance a bit...
So maybe a upgraded 1d mkiv sensor ! (some more mp)
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There is no reason not to have FF cameras except production cost. that will be solved in the future and hopefully all cameras will be FF. Tough i guess APS-C will still always be around. I mean "back in the days" everybody was fine with 35mm film also 
A good step Canon
Just get 1.4TC for reach...
A good step Canon
Just get 1.4TC for reach...
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it sounds like 70D is going to have the same old ASP-C sensor and ASP-C sensors will only be developed for Rebels and EOS-M...
it wouldn't be a problem to produce only full frame for DSLRs but FF cameras are very expensive (entry level starts above $2000), and the 1.6x crop factor is something many people like in ASP-C.
it wouldn't be a problem to produce only full frame for DSLRs but FF cameras are very expensive (entry level starts above $2000), and the 1.6x crop factor is something many people like in ASP-C.
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C
Canon-F1
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sandymandy said:There is no reason not to have FF cameras except production cost. that will be solved in the future and hopefully all cameras will be FF. Tough i guess APS-C will still always be around. I mean "back in the days" everybody was fine with 35mm film also
A good step Canon
flawed logic.. you will always have more reach with a crop and a 1.4 TC.
and FF will always be more expensive to produce then APS-C, if the price difference matters is a different question.
but a FF sensors has a bigger surface.
so you could always produce more APS-C sensors then FF sensors on a wafer.
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The 7D is the fast sports camera of the 1.6x crop range - the fastest frame rate, the best AF, the best viewfinder, the best weather sealing and the highest price.expatinasia said:
Scale that up to FF, and you've got the 1D X. Cut back on the price and something has to give. If you mostly let frame rate and weather sealing slip, you end up with the 5D mk III. Let everything slip and you've got the 6D but an even more competitive price.
If Canon really do drop the premium APS-C camera line up when the 7D is discontinued, I can't see anything called a 7D mk II ever be released. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember any camera line ever switching sensor size without some naming convention change such as 1D then 1Ds.
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rs said:
Agreed on the above, but at least regarding the weathersealing, my understanding was that the 5D mk3 sealing was at least as good as the 7D's. I look at the 5D mk3 as a full frame version of the 7D with pretty much the same layout and feature set (and probably a few more besides- such as the higher spec AF) but with a slightly lower frame rate.
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Hi CR folks
I think people should not be reading more into what Masaya said than what he ACTUALLY said. Remember, the unquoted parts of that interview are simply DPReview's 'take' on it... nothing more (and nothing less, I have respect for DPReview). Quite a bit of what is written in this post assumes incorrectly.
What Masaya actually said about 70D and/or 7DmkII in the interview is very little, and not concrete about those models nor related to the possibility of which models will still be produced, and when, etc, but rather he is talking about market segmentation. ???
So, careful and critical reading and analysis of what Masaya said specifically regarding APS-C and 70D / 7DmkII is required. His words are in bold in this part of that link / article, which I'm copying & highlighting below:
DPR: ... the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says:
'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.'
DPR: Either way, that doesn't close the door on an EOS 70D though - when asked when we can expect one, Maeda promises: 'some day in the future. Without fail.
I'm a manager in the Australian Government, and part of my job is to write very specific documentation / policy and to read critically. (I'm not trying to boast, just applying some of my skills here).
So, my take on what Masaya actually says is as follows:
- Canon realises a significant proportion of semi-pros currently demand APS-C
- In the future, Canon believes there will possibly be more demand from semi-pros for FF
- That doesn't mean some or many semi-pros will still want / prefer / need / demand an APS-C
- Which in turn means that Canon needs to determine how to market future models like 70D and 7DmkII
- the feature set and segment positioning of the 70D (& 7DmkII) might be quite determined by the 700D / entry level Canon APS-C DLSRs
- A 7DmkII is still likely on the cards. I think planning, research & development of the 7DmkII has happened some years ago, and R&D are being finalised soon - then ready for production (nowhere does Masaya hint that a 7DmkII is off the cards)
- the 7D has been a popular and long-living successful camera for Canon (ie good profit). I think Canon realise if they create another successful, and perhaps 'noticably improved in some aspects' 7DmkII, they can get a lot of mileage out of it, that is: good profit again.
- Canon is smart and would be very conscious about brand loyalty, and if they remove a 'top of the line APS-C, while the competition offer good top of the line APS-C sized DSLRs, then some folk who don't want to (or can't afford) the jump to FF, may go to other brands.
- equivalent FF lenses are often significantly more expensive than APS-C (when I write 'equivalent' - I mainly mean in terms of 'effective' focal length. (I do realise there are many other aspects to be considered than focal length, but I don't want to write pages here on that!)
Well... feel free to comment on what I've written and determined from the interview!
Totally apart from DPReview's interview - I believe we'll see some high level APS-C cameras. There are serious Canon EF-S lenses (eg 15-85mm, 17-55mm, 10-22mm, 60mm macro, etc) and many EF lenses (eg 70-300mm L, 100mm macro, etc) that just work so well on APS-C too!
Cheers and regards. Wishing all a wonderful weekend... it's Friday evening here in Australia! YAY!! 8)
Paul
I think people should not be reading more into what Masaya said than what he ACTUALLY said. Remember, the unquoted parts of that interview are simply DPReview's 'take' on it... nothing more (and nothing less, I have respect for DPReview). Quite a bit of what is written in this post assumes incorrectly.
What Masaya actually said about 70D and/or 7DmkII in the interview is very little, and not concrete about those models nor related to the possibility of which models will still be produced, and when, etc, but rather he is talking about market segmentation. ???
So, careful and critical reading and analysis of what Masaya said specifically regarding APS-C and 70D / 7DmkII is required. His words are in bold in this part of that link / article, which I'm copying & highlighting below:
DPR: ... the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says:
'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.'
DPR: Either way, that doesn't close the door on an EOS 70D though - when asked when we can expect one, Maeda promises: 'some day in the future. Without fail.
I'm a manager in the Australian Government, and part of my job is to write very specific documentation / policy and to read critically. (I'm not trying to boast, just applying some of my skills here).
So, my take on what Masaya actually says is as follows:
- Canon realises a significant proportion of semi-pros currently demand APS-C
- In the future, Canon believes there will possibly be more demand from semi-pros for FF
- That doesn't mean some or many semi-pros will still want / prefer / need / demand an APS-C
- Which in turn means that Canon needs to determine how to market future models like 70D and 7DmkII
- the feature set and segment positioning of the 70D (& 7DmkII) might be quite determined by the 700D / entry level Canon APS-C DLSRs
- A 7DmkII is still likely on the cards. I think planning, research & development of the 7DmkII has happened some years ago, and R&D are being finalised soon - then ready for production (nowhere does Masaya hint that a 7DmkII is off the cards)
- the 7D has been a popular and long-living successful camera for Canon (ie good profit). I think Canon realise if they create another successful, and perhaps 'noticably improved in some aspects' 7DmkII, they can get a lot of mileage out of it, that is: good profit again.
- Canon is smart and would be very conscious about brand loyalty, and if they remove a 'top of the line APS-C, while the competition offer good top of the line APS-C sized DSLRs, then some folk who don't want to (or can't afford) the jump to FF, may go to other brands.
- equivalent FF lenses are often significantly more expensive than APS-C (when I write 'equivalent' - I mainly mean in terms of 'effective' focal length. (I do realise there are many other aspects to be considered than focal length, but I don't want to write pages here on that!)
Well... feel free to comment on what I've written and determined from the interview!
Totally apart from DPReview's interview - I believe we'll see some high level APS-C cameras. There are serious Canon EF-S lenses (eg 15-85mm, 17-55mm, 10-22mm, 60mm macro, etc) and many EF lenses (eg 70-300mm L, 100mm macro, etc) that just work so well on APS-C too!
Cheers and regards. Wishing all a wonderful weekend... it's Friday evening here in Australia! YAY!! 8)
Paul
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And the promised f8 AF fix!sandymandy said:There is no reason not to have FF cameras except production cost. that will be solved in the future and hopefully all cameras will be FF. Tough i guess APS-C will still always be around. I mean "back in the days" everybody was fine with 35mm film also
A good step Canon
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the interview confirms my worst fears.
* a few more gazillions of consumer compacts with 1/2.3" sensors, until the will all sit unsold in a huge warehouse
* APS-C will be condemned to cumsumer cr*p only (70D)
* Hi-End specced 7D II is NOT going to happen
* High-End EOS-M is NOT going to happen
* Full-frame mirrorless - with or without mount - is NOT going to happen
* Canon has no new sensor generation anywhere near ready that could compete with Sony (Nikon)
* Canon will fail in the stills imaging market
They really need to fire this Masaya Maeda guy and get somebody in with an understanding of the market.
Note to myself: no more investments in Canon glass, it'd be wasted.
And If I am forced to buy a FF camera just to get a halfway decent AF-System and specs ... it'll be the Nikon D800.
* a few more gazillions of consumer compacts with 1/2.3" sensors, until the will all sit unsold in a huge warehouse
* APS-C will be condemned to cumsumer cr*p only (70D)
* Hi-End specced 7D II is NOT going to happen
* High-End EOS-M is NOT going to happen
* Full-frame mirrorless - with or without mount - is NOT going to happen
* Canon has no new sensor generation anywhere near ready that could compete with Sony (Nikon)
* Canon will fail in the stills imaging market
They really need to fire this Masaya Maeda guy and get somebody in with an understanding of the market.
Note to myself: no more investments in Canon glass, it'd be wasted.
And If I am forced to buy a FF camera just to get a halfway decent AF-System and specs ... it'll be the Nikon D800.
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PJ1974 - I think you're right, people often read between the lines and see something completely subjective.
To paraphrase Maeda, he says there may room for more FF bodies in the lineup - I'm struggling to see where they will fit in... Eg: which side of the 5D would they go, better or worse?
Maybe they will drop the pentaprisms and have a model on each side: a 1DX feature set but with EVF to fit between the standard 1D and 5D and then an EVF model based on the 6D that would fit in just below the latter.
Basically two EOS M Pro models.
To paraphrase Maeda, he says there may room for more FF bodies in the lineup - I'm struggling to see where they will fit in... Eg: which side of the 5D would they go, better or worse?
Maybe they will drop the pentaprisms and have a model on each side: a 1DX feature set but with EVF to fit between the standard 1D and 5D and then an EVF model based on the 6D that would fit in just below the latter.
Basically two EOS M Pro models.
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Did we read the same article? Did I miss something? The 7DII isn't mentioned. Of course, it would have been a positive sign if he had mentioned it, but it is not necessarily a bad sign for not mentioning it. He just said "I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models."
Is he talking short term future, long term future. It isn't said. I get the speculation, but just like when pushed he confirmed you'll see a 70D, the 7DII could be in the works as well.
Personally, Canon...if you are listening....Keep semi-pro APS-C. I'll buy a high quality 7DII as soon as it is available for pre-order.
Is he talking short term future, long term future. It isn't said. I get the speculation, but just like when pushed he confirmed you'll see a 70D, the 7DII could be in the works as well.
Personally, Canon...if you are listening....Keep semi-pro APS-C. I'll buy a high quality 7DII as soon as it is available for pre-order.
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LewisShermer
point shoot hope
What's everyones beef with FF? the only reason I had crop sensors was because I couldn't afford FF, but then I saved some money, sold all my crop sensor stuff (7D/60D/EF-s Lenses) and bought a FF set up which is loads better in terms of IQ and cropping to get the best out of lenses like a 50mm, 85mm & 100mm. You will obviously have to invest in wide to mid-range zoom (24-105 which is kit anyway) and a longer lens reaching to 400mm if you still want the "reach" of a crop sensor (which is a total facade anyway) or you could maybe get a metre or 2 closer to the subject.
the only thing that you're giving up is the FPS of the 7D... which you're not anyway as you still have all your 7D's. canon will not make the decision to stop all crop sensors and then come round to your house and smash all your 7D's so you have to buy new FF cameras. They've served you well this far, the only issue is that they're not going to get much improvements so just keep them as at low ISO they're very good cameras.
In a couple of years the 5Diii and 1Dx will be antiquated technology and the standard for pro/semi-pro DSLR will be 46mp and ISO at 999999999999999 has zero noise so wait for a little while and get the 1Dx at a much lower price when the standard of the 22mp FF sensor IQ of that becomes deplorable...
the only thing that you're giving up is the FPS of the 7D... which you're not anyway as you still have all your 7D's. canon will not make the decision to stop all crop sensors and then come round to your house and smash all your 7D's so you have to buy new FF cameras. They've served you well this far, the only issue is that they're not going to get much improvements so just keep them as at low ISO they're very good cameras.
In a couple of years the 5Diii and 1Dx will be antiquated technology and the standard for pro/semi-pro DSLR will be 46mp and ISO at 999999999999999 has zero noise so wait for a little while and get the 1Dx at a much lower price when the standard of the 22mp FF sensor IQ of that becomes deplorable...
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That's really interesting - and if only because it says I was correct all the way along predicting the semipro-crop segment being sandwiched between pressure from below (better Rebels and competition) and above (more future potential in ff than in the nearly maxed out aps-c) ;->vlim said:
And also interesting to see one of the guys responsible for Canon's strategy - I can imagine him supporting what dpreview.com calls the "conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark"
Last not least with the upcoming new ff models he imho more or less confirms that even Canon figures that the expensive 5d3 and the feature-reduced "5d mk2 mk2" = 6d is not for everyone...
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Canon-F1 said:sandymandy said:There is no reason not to have FF cameras except production cost. that will be solved in the future and hopefully all cameras will be FF. Tough i guess APS-C will still always be around. I mean "back in the days" everybody was fine with 35mm film also
A good step Canon
flawed logic.. you will always have more reach with a crop and a 1.4 TC.
and FF will always be more expensive to produce then APS-C, if the price difference matters is a different question.
but a FF sensors has a bigger surface.
so you could always produce more APS-C sensors then FF sensors on a wafer.
And you can always crop a larger image into a smaller image...
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...and that's why I'm keeping my humble 60D, 17-55, 50 1.4 and flash kit, and buying myself a Fuji X20 or ax X100s, with all its "limitations", for carrying around and for family events. In the future I'll probably get the successor of the X-Pro1 or X-E1, or even the successor of the Olympus OM-D EM-5, and carry lighter gear. The 60D is great and serves me pretty well -- I'm keeping it --, but my razor-thin DoF fever is cooling off pretty quickly and it looks like Fuji's line of thinking fits the bill better than Canon's for my needs.
Anyone else considering Fuji or Olympus?
Cheers,
Daniel
Anyone else considering Fuji or Olympus?
Cheers,
Daniel
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