Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
81
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

candyman said:
MayaTlab said:
candyman said:
- file _0133 at 100 ISO with heavily reduced higlights in the sky using the gradual filter
- file _0134 at 160 ISO - copied the photo setting for reduced highlights

The ISO 160 shot is clipped in the highlights, according to Rawdigger, in the blue channel, and in one of the two green channels (that's weird to me, I thought that the two green channels usually clip at the same time ? But maybe there is something I don't understand here).

Then, this is combined with Adobe's particularly rubbish profiling of the camera. If you switch to the "camera neutral" profile, for example, you will see a noticeable improvement. If you export the file as DNG and import it in Capture One (which doesn't support the 6DII yet, so it's only going to get better in C1), the pink issue becomes quite negligible.

The following photo (your ISO 160 shot) has the same settings applied, except that one uses the "camera neutral" profile, the other "Adobe standard".


I am not sure what you mean. Can you give me more information?

At the bottom of the develop module, you can change the default profile that LR applies to your picture :
 

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candyman

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 27, 2011
2,198
7
www.flickr.com
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

MayaTlab said:
candyman said:
MayaTlab said:
candyman said:
- file _0133 at 100 ISO with heavily reduced higlights in the sky using the gradual filter
- file _0134 at 160 ISO - copied the photo setting for reduced highlights

The ISO 160 shot is clipped in the highlights, according to Rawdigger, in the blue channel, and in one of the two green channels (that's weird to me, I thought that the two green channels usually clip at the same time ? But maybe there is something I don't understand here).

Then, this is combined with Adobe's particularly rubbish profiling of the camera. If you switch to the "camera neutral" profile, for example, you will see a noticeable improvement. If you export the file as DNG and import it in Capture One (which doesn't support the 6DII yet, so it's only going to get better in C1), the pink issue becomes quite negligible.

The following photo (your ISO 160 shot) has the same settings applied, except that one uses the "camera neutral" profile, the other "Adobe standard".


I am not sure what you mean. Can you give me more information?

At the bottom of the develop module, you can change the default profile that LR applies to your picture :
I see. Thank you.
There is some positive effect noticeable when changing to Neutral profile.
 

candyman

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 27, 2011
2,198
7
www.flickr.com
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Sporgon said:
candyman said:
I am not so much a shadow lifter and DRone but interesting to compare DPP and LR in this regard


First Lightroom
Second DPP


Large amount of noise reduction been applied in the DPP image
Yes, you are right. I forgot to set it back to default. :-\ It fooled me :(
The result in DPP is less good than in LR after I set all settings to default except shadow lifting.
It seems that is difficult, at this stage, to give a proper judgement on files if processing software is not yet optimized for the task. The burden of an early adopter.
I still have doubts about returning the camera. I am not looking for better IQ than 6D but certainly not for worse. I just want to have a confirmation of at least same IQ as the 6D. For ME the added features are a reason to upgrade but only if IQ did not get worse.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

candyman said:
Sporgon said:
candyman said:
I am not so much a shadow lifter and DRone but interesting to compare DPP and LR in this regard


First Lightroom
Second DPP


Large amount of noise reduction been applied in the DPP image
Yes, you are right. I forgot to set it back to default. :-\ It fooled me :(
The result in DPP is less good than in LR after I set all settings to default except shadow lifting.
It seems that is difficult, at this stage, to give a proper judgement on files if processing software is not yet optimized for the task. The burden of an early adopter.
I still have doubts about returning the camera. I am not looking for better IQ than 6D but certainly not for worse. I just want to have a confirmation of at least same IQ as the 6D. For ME the added features are a reason to upgrade but only if IQ did not get worse.

Looks to me as if it is on par with the 6D at low ISO, slightly better at high iso.
 

jeffa4444

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 28, 2013
1,519
178
67
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

bclaff said:
Aglet said:
...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....
Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards
Bclaff
Excuse my ignorance can you please describe your testing procedure so I can better understand your readings.
During this week I'm going to test the camera using an Arri Dynamic Range Test Chart and their automatic analysis software. The chart can be used in both 16x9 mode and 4:3, the camera must be aligned to the markings on the chart to take in two identification marks to perform accurate analysis. The set-up requires setting the luminance of the sphere, the camera at ISO 100 and elimination of stray ambient light.
The camera will have an 85mm lens and the image will be converted as a TIFF for reading in the software.
The software can provide an OECF graph, saturation (clipping), noise floor (black level) S/N (dB) and line average. The OECF is measured to a reference set certificate.
 

derekmccoy

I'm New Here
Mar 1, 2017
15
0
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

candyman said:
Sporgon said:
candyman said:
I am not so much a shadow lifter and DRone but interesting to compare DPP and LR in this regard


First Lightroom
Second DPP


Large amount of noise reduction been applied in the DPP image
Yes, you are right. I forgot to set it back to default. :-\ It fooled me :(
The result in DPP is less good than in LR after I set all settings to default except shadow lifting.
It seems that is difficult, at this stage, to give a proper judgement on files if processing software is not yet optimized for the task. The burden of an early adopter.
I still have doubts about returning the camera. I am not looking for better IQ than 6D but certainly not for worse. I just want to have a confirmation of at least same IQ as the 6D. For ME the added features are a reason to upgrade but only if IQ did not get worse.

The extra MP makes up for the slightly "worse" IQ at low ISO with shadow lift. When the 24MP 6D2 image is resized to 20MP to match the 6D, I doubt you'll see a difference.
 

bclaff

EOS M6 Mark II
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

jeffa4444 said:
bclaff said:
Aglet said:
...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....
Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards
Bclaff
Excuse my ignorance can you please describe your testing procedure so I can better understand your readings.
You should start by following the Further Reading links below the Photographic Dynamic Range chart
 

jeffa4444

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 28, 2013
1,519
178
67
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

bclaff said:
jeffa4444 said:
bclaff said:
Aglet said:
...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....
Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards
Bclaff
Excuse my ignorance can you please describe your testing procedure so I can better understand your readings.
You should start by following the Further Reading links below the Photographic Dynamic Range chart
One last question did you test a single camera or multiple cameras. I ask this because we have found variance across a group of cameras admittedly not a great variance but certainly enough to affect the difference you show between the 6D & the 6D MKII.
 

bclaff

EOS M6 Mark II
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

jeffa4444 said:
bclaff said:
jeffa4444 said:
bclaff said:
Aglet said:
...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....
Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards
Bclaff
Excuse my ignorance can you please describe your testing procedure so I can better understand your readings.
You should start by following the Further Reading links below the Photographic Dynamic Range chart
One last question did you test a single camera or multiple cameras. I ask this because we have found variance across a group of cameras admittedly not a great variance but certainly enough to affect the difference you show between the 6D & the 6D MKII.
I often test only one camera.
But I have tested up to eight and found very little sample variation.
Also, FWIW, the results cross-check against read noise data which is very very consistent.
 

jmoya

EOS M6 Mark II
Feb 8, 2016
57
5
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Head over to my channel. I did a comparison edit in lightroom between the canon 5d3 and canon 6d mark II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCPsJARvqzA&t=211s
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,747
2,222
Alberta, Canada
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

jmoya said:
Head over to my channel. I did a comparison edit in lightroom between the canon 5d3 and canon 6d mark II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCPsJARvqzA&t=211s

Thanks for that!

Jack
 

Cthulhu

EOS 90D
Apr 6, 2016
137
0
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

jmoya said:
Head over to my channel. I did a comparison edit in lightroom between the canon 5d3 and canon 6d mark II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCPsJARvqzA&t=211s

Nice work. I'd be interested in seeing what happens if you raise that shadows slider all the way.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,939
706
Davidson, NC
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Cthulhu said:
I'd be interested in seeing what happens if you raise that shadows slider all the way.

And then color everything orange and add purple pokadots.

You can do really weird stuff with Photoshop and to an extent Lightroom.
 

derekmccoy

I'm New Here
Mar 1, 2017
15
0
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

stevelee said:
Cthulhu said:
I'd be interested in seeing what happens if you raise that shadows slider all the way.

And then color everything orange and add purple pokadots.

You can do really weird stuff with Photoshop and to an extent Lightroom.

He has a point. You can raise the shadows on a 5D4 all the way, along with a 3 stop push and it still holds up.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

derekmccoy said:
stevelee said:
Cthulhu said:
I'd be interested in seeing what happens if you raise that shadows slider all the way.

And then color everything orange and add purple pokadots.

You can do really weird stuff with Photoshop and to an extent Lightroom.

He has a point. You can raise the shadows on a 5D4 all the way, along with a 3 stop push and it still holds up.

True, but then look at just how much lighter even two stops made in the image. Only people who are wanting to produce cartoon-like images will want to go further. Credit to him for being realistic.

There is an issue for the people that want to shoot wide open on a 24/1.4 and then enable lens correction and then also raise shadows two stops. Those people should use Nikon ;)

Maybe it's Adobe's fault for all this "5 stop lift" nonsense ;D
 

Khalai

In the absence of light, darknoise prevails...
May 13, 2014
714
0
36
Prague
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Sporgon said:
Maybe it's Adobe's fault for all this "5 stop lift" nonsense ;D

If you merge RAW files into single DNG HDR file, you can lift up to 10 EV stops in LR :p
 

Cthulhu

EOS 90D
Apr 6, 2016
137
0
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Sporgon said:
He has a point. You can raise the shadows on a 5D4 all the way, along with a 3 stop push and it still holds up.

True, but then look at just how much lighter even two stops made in the image. Only people who are wanting to produce cartoon-like images will want to go further. Credit to him for being realistic.

There is an issue for the people that want to shoot wide open on a 24/1.4 and then enable lens correction and then also raise shadows two stops. Those people should use Nikon ;)

Maybe it's Adobe's fault for all this "5 stop lift" nonsense ;D
[/quote]

Realistic...not sure about that. Maybe for that particular situation, but then again maybe you want to lift shadows without blowing out the main subject. You can fall into that situation in any aperture or focal length, it's the contrast and lighting in the scene that matters and you're not always able to control that.
If you do pet photography, for example, you'll be constantly facing high contrast subjects who won't blend or expose well with their surroundings and your best bet will be to underexpose to save detail and bring it out in post, always at high shutter speeds. You could always shoot Nikon or Sony, but then again you might want your subjects to look less like aliens, specially if a human is also in the frame.

At any rate that wasn't my point, my point was to find out the actual capacities of the camera and what you can actually expect in though situations. Everybody already knew you could lift two stops on a 5dmk3.
 

Lord_Zeppelin

I'm New Here
Oct 29, 2012
16
0
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Sporgon said:
True, but then look at just how much lighter even two stops made in the image. Only people who are wanting to produce cartoon-like images will want to go further. Credit to him for being realistic.

There is an issue for the people that want to shoot wide open on a 24/1.4 and then enable lens correction and then also raise shadows two stops. Those people should use Nikon ;)

Maybe it's Adobe's fault for all this "5 stop lift" nonsense ;D

I feel like you're touching on part of the overall issue with the perception of what photography is - the Instagram effect. People are used to seeing these faux ultra-HDR images that work on small but super high pixel density displays (iPhone, etc), which deteriorate rapidly when you get to 8x10 size or a 13" laptop, etc. There is this expectation that the sharp, HDR look is not only normal, but easily achieved among the majority of smartphone users whose have a mostly false, inflated sense that they are better photographers than they are because of how easy a smartphone makes it and the ease of the apps. They move over to SLR photography, and then want the images to come out the same without knowing exposure methods, and just click one button and voila, it looks perfect and gets likes. They don't know the work that goes into being an advanced amateur or pro.

And can you blame people? The Instagram look is admittedly very good, it's easy to achieve, it's fun to share, and it looks closer to how the eyes see things versus how the camera sees it - so it's much more relateable. Notice the amount of people here and on the DPR thread that are saying the wedding photo in question is a "toss" - because it is. Can you lift it and salvage something out of it? Sure...but it is still going to be a secondary level image out of the hundreds shot for that wedding, and isn't going to be one of the cover images of the album. Trying to make it something it isn't, and then complaining the camera isn't making it a better photo, is unreasonable.

Market maturity and product life cycle also play a huge role here - the timings and launch of products and software currently is "ship it then patch it" as a rule. I'm sure half of the issues with the banding and such will be fixed via firmware, DPP profile, and eventually third party profiles for LR and it's ilk over the course of the first 6 months it's actually on the market.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,747
2,222
Alberta, Canada
Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Lord_Zeppelin, I suspect you are right.

It is unfortunate that these threads end up containing material that is time wasting so today this one gets unnotified even though there have been many good contributions, such as yours. I will again be checking the 6D2 reviews and surveying the scene before a possible purchase in the spring. By then all the hype and emotion and DRoning will have subsided.

Jack
 
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