Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lens SKU and kit information

[RBSfphoto]

Fyi for those with good relationships with their local camera retailer (Being in a large city one of the largest retailers in the USA is here), my shop has told me they know they have ten cameras already on pre-order with canon and are taking deposits to be on the pre-order list. I have made my deposit

 

[Go Wild]

Well, here's the thing.

How many years has it been since Adobe moved to rental model? Quite awhile, no?

Well I believe since 2014 or close...

Honestly, since then I've still yet to see any feature or new item that is so groundbreaking, workflow efficient a change that I just would have to upgrade from my last version of PS CS6, nor LR5.


And with Adobe doing rental....really what motivation do they have to actually innovate? Not much.

That´s not true at all! The improvements have been numerous and very significant! As the matter of fact today we had a good upgrade of photoshop and camera raw!!!
So, of course they maintain motivation to improve! In fact, they usually are the first company to upgrade their programas to work with the new cameras and new extensions!

However, the alternatives out there today...ARE very much viable alternatives to Adobe products, where in the past there really were no serious professional level challengers.

And with stand alone licensing..well, you don't have blips that cut people off like Adobe CC had just within the last month I believe....

And you don't automatically get new versions pushed out that have bugs that have affected people with downtime.

Alternatives are good if they fit you! Like I said, I do use another programs like Luminar and I like! Its just a matter of personal choice!

Never had those blips you talk and only one time we did have some issues, when Apple launch Catalina. Maybe Windows experience is different, don´t know...But even with some bugs at that time, they fiz it really quick and never get my workflow affected. It only afect Photshop so I worked with Lightroom...2 programs for the price of 1!

However, I get it...the rental version works for some people. Larger commercial entities likely think it is ok...just like leasing other equipment they need.

But for the smaller guy....you generally do not have a compelling reason to upgrade the software every single year with ever single new version...and hence, doing the licensed permanent copy is WAY more economical.....especially if you look at the Affinity Tools: Photo, Designer, Publisher....I believe they are still on sale for $25 each.

Can Adobe rental beat that?

And I was an early adopter for Affinity Photo...I think it started about 2015.

I've had numerous FREE updates ever since then....5 years worth. So, with my one purchase for 5 years, I've gotten all the free new tools, updates, and bug fixes....with a single payment to the company.

But different strokes for different folks.....everyone should use the best tool they think is for the job.

But it is hardly fair to say that the alternatives to Adobe are not professional level, nor are they not kept up to date with software updates.

C

I accept your point of view, it´s your oppinion based on your needs and that is totally valid!

For me...I just prefer Adobe. I was one of the firsts to use Affinity I was one of the users of the BETA version when it was still developing. And I did like it, it was very near to Photoshop.
And if you say you prefer Affinity to Photoshop, totally understand! But thing is.....in Adobe you get for 10€ month TWO programs!!! What can beat that!!
So...The thing is...this is just a personal opinion and based on personal uses! There are no perfect programs, just programs that adapt good to what we do...Some of us use Adobe, some of us use another ones...
Adobe is not perfect.....But they deliver what I need....

 

[cayenne]

That´s not true at all! The improvements have been numerous and very significant! As the matter of fact today we had a good upgrade of photoshop and camera raw!!!
So, of course they maintain motivation to improve! In fact, they usually are the first company to upgrade their programas to work with the new cameras and new extensions!

Interesting.

Can you point to some of the earth shaking, can't do without improvements Adobe has done to say, Photoshop....that makes it so superior to CS6 that you can't live without? What amazing functionality have they added since then that blows CS6 out of the water and gives functionality you cannot do before rental model?

Just curious, maybe I missed it, I do try to keep up and listen for the updates, but I"ve yet to see anything so mind blowing for PS or LR that I couldn't still do inCS6 and LR5 for the most part...

C

 

[Go Wild]

Interesting.

Can you point to some of the earth shaking, can't do without improvements Adobe has done to say, Photoshop....that makes it so superior to CS6 that you can't live without? What amazing functionality have they added since then that blows CS6 out of the water and gives functionality you cannot do before rental model?

Just curious, maybe I missed it, I do try to keep up and listen for the updates, but I"ve yet to see anything so mind blowing for PS or LR that I couldn't still do inCS6 and LR5 for the most part...

C

Come on....Really? Just google it! I understand that for you and your use an upgrade is not required. I also understand that for you Adobe programs are not the most indicated for your work. It all depends on our needs and also on what makes you feel confident and happy with the use!

For me, I get that with Adobe. Of course I am not going to sit here and convice you of that! Just because it´s not my point or objective and also Adobe doesn´t pay me for that!!

 

[stevelee]

I’ve seen that Lightroom has added ISO-variant default settings for Raw conversions. For example, you could set low noise reduction for shots at ISO 100, more reduction for 6400 and less sharpening, and more reduction at 40,000. It just affects what you see when you open the raw file, and you can still adjust from there. Between values it interpolates.

I don’t know whether it is also added to ACR. ACR interface has been changed to be more like Lightroom, so it will take me a while to find what is hidden where, even though it hasn’t been that long since I used the develop module during a book project.

 

[Michael Clark]

So, why buy the 600mm DO f11 if you can shoot native with the 100-500 + crop AND it is unlikely the extenders will provide any benefit on the 600mm due to the f11 aperture?

Because the 600/11 and 800/11 are going to be a LOT cheaper than the 100-500, much less than a 600mm or 800mm f/5.6 lens.
If you are using the 100-400 II and 200-400/4 lenses, the 600/800 f/11 lenses are not meant for you.

 

[Michael Clark]

Why would only certain size cards be listed?
I am assuming that the write speed would be the same for sandisk extreme pro 64/128/256GB for instance. I am looking at 128GB size cards for the R5 so is Lexar the only choice (assuming that 8k/30 will be equal/higher speed than 5.5k/60)?

It's not uncommon at all for smaller cards of the same series to be slightly slower than the larger cards in that series. SanDisk SD cards have been doing this for years. So have Transcend.

 

[Danglin52]

Because the 600/11 and 800/11 are going to be a LOT cheaper than the 100-500, much less than a 600mm or 800mm f/5.6 lens.
If you are using the 100-400 II and 200-400/4 lenses, the 600/800 f/11 lenses are not meant for you.

Not sure I agree. The 100-400 II and 100-500 may be expensive, but they can replace multiple fixed focus lenses in the range and are extremely versatile with excellent IQ. The 800 (wouldn’t buy the 600 w/ the 100-500) MAY provide an option when the 100-500 + 1.4x TC or crop is not enough. Only testing will verify. The 200-400 is a great but very heavy lens. I bought a Canon factory refurb in 2016 and sold It last week after 4 years of use close to my original purchase price. I love the 600 III, but no factory refurb deals and I am not willing to tie up the cash and take the hit of full retail. i am hoping the 800 f11 will work for casual use and I can rent the f4’s for big trips. We will see when they are released.

 

[Joules]

Not sure I agree. The 100-400 II and 100-500 may be expensive, but they can replace multiple fixed focus lenses in the range and are extremely versatile with excellent IQ.

But they are expensive. If the Sigma / Tamron 150-600mm wouldn't be around, I would still be shooting wildlife with the 55-250mm IS STM. A lens that is an amazing deal, but somewhat limited in range.

Keep in mind that these new Tele lenses are STM and f/11. The most expensive STM lens I am aware of costs less than 500$ on Amazon (the EF-M 18-150mm) and is expensive compared to many of the other STM lenses. Personally, I can't see these primes costing over 1000$. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if few customers prefer them over 3rd party alternatives.

 

[SecureGSM]

But they are expensive. If the Sigma / Tamron 150-600mm wouldn't be around, I would still be shooting wildlife with the 55-250mm IS STM. A lens that is an amazing deal, but somewhat limited in range.

Keep in mind that these new Tele lenses are STM and f/11. The most expensive STM lens I am aware of costs less than 500$ on Amazon (the EF-M 18-150mm) and is expensive compared to many of the other STM lenses. Personally, I can't see these primes costing over 1000$. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if few customers prefer them over 3rd party alternatives.

Sigma 100-400 c sold well at US$779.00 a Canon 800mm prime priced over $1000 is a reasonable expectation (arguably).

 

[Danglin52]

But they are expensive. If the Sigma / Tamron 150-600mm wouldn't be around, I would still be shooting wildlife with the 55-250mm IS STM. A lens that is an amazing deal, but somewhat limited in range.

Keep in mind that these new Tele lenses are STM and f/11. The most expensive STM lens I am aware of costs less than 500$ on Amazon (the EF-M 18-150mm) and is expensive compared to many of the other STM lenses. Personally, I can't see these primes costing over 1000$. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if few customers prefer them over 3rd party alternatives.

It is a brave new world with the R system and it looks like Canon has punched it up a couple of levels. I would be surprised to see a sub $1,000 800mm lens because there will be nothing that can match even $1,500 @ f11 if it has good IQ and AF on an R5/R6. I can't see them delivering a crap*** lens for use on their new flagship camera. If they can deliver an f11 with good IQ even at $1,500-$1,800 I don't think anything will be able to match the IQ - even a 150-600 + TC. The 100-500 is a no brainer for me if it has similar build/IQ/AF to the existing 100-400 II since I will cover the majority of my shooting. I submitted a question to Rudy Winston during the Canon session about the IQ of the 100-500 and the rationale for f7.1. He didn't address the f7.1, but said "if you are happy with the quality and performance of the 100-400 II, you should be happy with the 100-500". I hope the lens is f5.6 @400mm and I can live with f7.1 400-500mm. I am disappointed they couldn't pull off an f6.3 or f8 for the 600/800. We will have to revisit when all the gear is out and tested. Bottom line is that I am going to pre-order and let the reviews make my decision. I am willing give up a little IQ if the lens saves me 5-6 lbs in the bag. I am planning a late September trip to GTNP/YNP and would really like to have all of this gear to test. I hope the gear arrives mid-September so I do a real world test and return anything that doesn't fit my needs. I would love a lightweight replacement of the 200-400 f4 (bumped to 200-500) but I doubt I can get lucky on a refurb and don't want to pay full retail for a big white.

 

[Joules]

Sigma 100-400 c sold well at US$779.00 a Canon 800mm prime priced over $1000 is a reasonable expectation (arguably).

But why use an STM AF, if budget isn't constrained that much? Even the RF 24-240mm has an USM AF drive, despite being so compromised in other aspects to keep it affordable (no FF image circle at wide end, performance in the corners, weight). That's a 900 $ lens.

I suppose if Canon continues to restrict the smooth viewfinder mode to RF lenses, that's enough of an incentive to buy native glass. But otherwise, I think the price has to be very low in order to make an f/11 prime a preferrable option over a third party zoom or first party zoom plus extender. Especially for a high resolution sensor like the R5.

 

[SecureGSM]

Sub

But why use an STM AF, if budget isn't constrained that much? Even the RF 24-240mm has an USM AF drive, despite being so compromised in other aspects to keep it affordable (no FF image circle at wide end, performance in the corners, weight). That's a 900 $ lens.

I suppose if Canon continues to restrict the smooth viewfinder mode to RF lenses, that's enough of an incentive to buy native glass. But otherwise, I think the price has to be very low in order to make an f/11 prime a preferrable option over a third party zoom or first party zoom plus extender. Especially for a high resolution sensor like the R5.

anything south of $2000 is a reasonable price for a 800mm Canon prime lens )
Let’s see what happens. At $1000 it will be an underselling it. But what do I know

Re smooth viewfinder onR5 potentially limited to RF lenses only: I do not see this being a requirement. 1Dx3 tracking in live view mode is silky smooth apparently With EF lenses.
I would not bet my house on it. However it is highly likely..

 

[Joules]

there will be nothing that can match even $1,500 @ f11 if it has good IQ and AF on an R5/R6. I can't see them delivering a crap*** lens for use on their new flagship camera.

That's the thing. I don't think these f/11 le ses are intended to be used with the R5 for anything but situations where the weight is critical.

f/11 means you'll basically throw out half the resolution in the R5 due to the diffraction limit at 24 MP.

There are good arguments for these lenses to be much more expensive than I believe. But the STM strikes me as an extremely odd choice in that case. I am biased though. I'm very happy with my 150-600 mm C which I use on an 80D. Sure, at the long end there is a drop in sharpness so that a R5 + 800mm f/11 would likely give a tiny bit more effective reach. And it would be lighter. But the flexibility of a zoom has its own advantages.

We'll see. In any case, I feel like these are very interesting lenses and it is exciting to see Canon explore new paths.

 

[Michael Clark]

But they are expensive. If the Sigma / Tamron 150-600mm wouldn't be around, I would still be shooting wildlife with the 55-250mm IS STM. A lens that is an amazing deal, but somewhat limited in range.

Keep in mind that these new Tele lenses are STM and f/11. The most expensive STM lens I am aware of costs less than 500$ on Amazon (the EF-M 18-150mm) and is expensive compared to many of the other STM lenses. Personally, I can't see these primes costing over 1000$. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if few customers prefer them over 3rd party alternatives.

I'm guessing they'll start out over $1,000, but not by much.

 

[Michael Clark]

Sigma 100-400 c sold well at US$779.00 a Canon 800mm prime priced over $1000 is a reasonable expectation (arguably).

The Sigma 100-400 may be much cheaper than the Canon EF 100-400mm II, but its IQ is also a far cry from the EF 100-400 II IQ.

 

[SteveC]

The Sigma 100-400 may be much cheaper than the Canon EF 100-400mm II, but its IQ is also a far cry from the EF 100-400 II IQ.

That 100-400mm II is rapidly getting to be on my list of "from my cold dead hands" lenses (alongside the No-L 100mm macro).

 

[stevelee]

That 100-400mm II is rapidly getting to be on my list of "from my cold dead hands" lenses (alongside the No-L 100mm macro).

They are both great lenses. I feel the same way. The only one I would add to that list is the 16-35mm f/4. I get plenty of good use out of almost all the rest of my EF lenses, but those are the ones that continue to amaze me.

 

[SteveC]

They are both great lenses. I feel the same way. The only one I would add to that list is the 16-35mm f/4. I get plenty of good use out of almost all the rest of my EF lenses, but those are the ones that continue to amaze me.

That's on my list. Right after I get the R5 with 24-105 L kit, that one is next.

Unless I decide to splurge on the f/2.8 instead. Yeah, it's another thousand bucks. Decisions, decisions.

 

[stevelee]

That's on my list. Right after I get the R5 with 24-105 L kit, that one is next.

Unless I decide to splurge on the f/2.8 instead. Yeah, it's another thousand bucks. Decisions, decisions.

With modern sensors I so rarely need an extra stop, so size, weight, and $1,000 would never seem worth it to me.