Canon EOS R5 impressions by a Canon EOS 5Ds shooter

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,062
Alberta, Canada
I think this new type of gear may prove to provide a greater improvement in the process of capturing images, rather than the results. Especially with birds, there is often not much one can do to take control of the situation, perspective or composition when the action is happening. Ofcourse experience, preparation, technique and not least of all luck play a part. Those are the skills one can hone. The actual proces of taking the picture though is something that I can see being greatly improved with the AF and other advancements the latest generation of cameras provide. I can imagine not just getting more keepers from a purely technical aspect (blurry du to slow AF, bad wing position due to too few FPS) but also getting less frustrating moments were the intent was not properly carried out by the camera, be it due to user error or an actual limitation of the equipment.

As a tech enthusiast, I am just saying that I absolutely agree that you do not need the latest and greatest and should not expect it to improve your results if there are other aspects about your shooting you can work on. But it also is not like there aren't things one can appreciate about new tech even if they often don't directly contribute to the end results in a significant way.
Nothing I can fault in your comments. It's personal, and for me coming from no formal training in photography it's been easy as an engineer and very handy person for me to master my gear in theory (I still get excited and forget basic things in the moment) but it wasn't until PBD (Scott) suggested a book, The Photographer's Eye, that my eyes really were opened up and I came to realize I was pretty pathetic in spite of the odd lucky photo. The reasons I have any photos I can be proud of are: good equipment, reasonable technical understanding of my equipment, patience/perseverance, preparedness and LUCK. Mostly the latter, but I'll take it and pretend I'm good! :)

Jack
 

Fischer

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 17, 2020
82
47
That's not really all I said is it?

You perhaps gloss over my mention of:
"New kit can encourage you to expand and explore your photography, or it's 'failings' provide an excuse as to why the next model is what is really needed ;-)"

I would be the last to say new kit is a waste of time...
No, I read it carefully.

You clearly shared that you think you know what the majority of others at this forum think and that your approach to photography is somehow better/superior: "This entire site* is bolstered by the widely held (even if rarely admitted) belief that a new camera/lens/printer/paper/ink will improve your photography" followed by: "as a way of ignoring the fundamental issues of getting round to taking 'better' photos in the first place" to underline your point.

As I said - I am no fan of that.

I am closing here.
 

Act444

EOS R
May 4, 2011
1,120
192
Don't fall for that marketing iso trick. This is what Bryan from TDP writes:

"The marketing department is always quick to state a camera's ISO range, but reality is that the usable settings within that range are what really matter. I immediately dismiss the highest stops as having a too-low SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio)"
"As the ISO setting increases from 100 through 800, noise levels grow. But, they remain very low, as usual, showing the impressive capabilities of a modern, high-resolution full-frame imaging sensor. At ISO 1600 through ISO 3200, noise levels become noticeable though images still look very good at these settings. By ISO 6400, images begin to show noticeable impact from noise, and by ISO 12800, noise is strong. ISO 25600 through 51200 results look bad unless downsized significantly, and ISO 102400 results are terrible, seemingly good enough for only marketing purposes. "


There's not much difference between my R5 and 5DSR in the iso ranges where I work (320 - 6400).
Wow, that’s admittedly disappointing, especially given the 5-year gap.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,062
Alberta, Canada
Wow, that’s admittedly disappointing, especially given the 5-year gap.
We don't always realize the physical limitations behind what we'd like to see happening. What if we expect that each year a car comes out that it will have significantly better breaking distances and then we find out that it is actually a little worse.:) We'd probably say, well it's a heavier car or the tires were changed or ... and accept it as normal.

Jack
 

YuengLinger

Sufficiently Pixilated
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,234
1,519
USA
Very true - the more I test printers and cameras the more I realise that the technical capabilities have long since passed the photographic abilities of many people using them (myself included sometimes ;-)

This entire site* is bolstered by the widely held (even if rarely admitted) belief that a new camera/lens/printer/paper/ink will improve your photography, and all too often as a way of ignoring the fundamental issues of getting round to taking 'better' photos in the first place. New kit can encourage you to expand and explore your photography, or it's 'failings' provide an excuse as to why the next model is what is really needed ;-)

*yes, I am aware that my own site depends on this to some extent as well ;-) I'm lucky enough to get all this kit to experiment with and explore the technical, so I can't really complain too much, it's helped my own work no end ;-)
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.

But I still have to learn a new camera inside-out, and I have to practice all the time, and I have to have projects and goals and gigs! If I just buy a camera, put it on a shelf, and wait for the next generation, of course nothing changes. And no photos get taken.

But, Keith, I might understand some of what you are saying about what regulars want from this site and what we share. Sometimes I get frustrated that a long anticipated lens, say, finally gets released after months or even years of talking about it, and then it is almost immediately forgotten unless a firmware update is announced. (But that doesn't mean we aren't out using it!) And just general advice is not always shared patiently, completely, or compassionately. I'm guilty of impatience; and, l'm not the only one, but I get tired of an endless train of complaints about perceived shortcomings of this or that, and silly arguments about things that will never affect images...And then when we don't have actual gear to argue about, there's always industry news.

I do wish more of us shared images, but now there is such concern about identity issues, about our privacy and the privacy of our subjects...(It isn't only this site. I believe digital images and the Internet have forever altered street photography. Before 2000, people would see somebody with a camera and think few others would ever see photos from that camera. Now, in a moment, the world can see them.)

But there is help here for those who have real questions, help that cannot easily be found anywhere else--not even from a tech-support staff, and there is strong evidence of caring about this online community (though I sometimes get a little rude or highhanded myself!).

All in all, having dipped into and frequented various online forums for longer than I like to say, this one is a gem. Just because we talk a lot about gear doesn't mean we don't care deeply about photography, about great images and improving our skills, and helping others. This forum more often than not does focus on a specific aspect of our personalities. It allows us to talk about our greatest passion apart from our families and other personal relationships--gear! Talking about the tools that enable us to TAKE PICTURES. In a world saturated with smartphone cameras, here we are, just as nuts and in love with photography as ever!

And thank you, Keith, for being such an important teacher. Your site, along with Jeff Schewe's The Digital Print, made it possible for me to understand printing and produce consistently strong prints. I should have written a thanks to you years ago. You are one of the lighthouses in this crazy worldwide web. Thank you!

And thank you to the creators and all the moderators of this site!
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,739
603
Davidson, NC
1) the AF system which got a huge upgrade in terms of folowing live moving objects and 2) much faster shooting speed up to 20fps, (I can also add that the ISO range of the R5 is exceeding that of the 5Ds).
Yes, if those things become an issue in architectural photography, you need to evacuate from the building immediately. There is an earthquake.
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,062
Alberta, Canada
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.

But I still have to learn a new camera inside-out, and I have to practice all the time, and I have to have projects and goals and gigs! If I just buy a camera, put it on a shelf, and wait for the next generation, of course nothing changes. And no photos get taken.

But, Keith, I might understand some of what you are saying about what regulars want from this site and what we share. Sometimes I get frustrated that a long anticipated lens, say, finally gets released after months or even years of talking about it, and then it is almost immediately forgotten unless a firmware update is announced. (But that doesn't mean we aren't out using it!) And just general advice is not always shared patiently, completely, or compassionately. I'm guilty of impatience; and, l'm not the only one, but I get tired of an endless train of complaints about perceived shortcomings of this or that, and silly arguments about things that will never affect images...And then when we don't have actual gear to argue about, there's always industry news.

I do wish more of us shared images, but now there is such concern about identity issues, about our privacy and the privacy of our subjects...(It isn't only this site. I believe digital images and the Internet have forever altered street photography. Before 2000, people would see somebody with a camera and think few others would ever see photos from that camera. Now, in a moment, the world can see them.)

But there is help here for those who have real questions, help that cannot easily be found anywhere else--not even from a tech-support staff, and there is strong evidence of caring about this online community (though I sometimes get a little rude or highhanded myself!).

All in all, having dipped into and frequented various online forums for longer than I like to say, this one is a gem. Just because we talk a lot about gear doesn't mean we don't care deeply about photography, about great images and improving our skills, and helping others. This forum more often than not does focus on a specific aspect of our personalities. It allows us to talk about our greatest passion apart from our families and other personal relationships--gear! Talking about the tools that enable us to TAKE PICTURES. In a world saturated with smartphone cameras, here we are, just as nuts and in love with photography as ever!

And thank you, Keith, for being such an important teacher. Your site, along with Jeff Schewe's The Digital Print, made it possible for me to understand printing and produce consistently strong prints. I should have written a thanks to you years ago. You are one of the lighthouses in this crazy worldwide web. Thank you!

And thank you to the creators and all the moderators of this site!
I also have great admiration for those who go to great lengths to share and those who have been around the longest tend to be great contributors while some fly by nighters or trolls are great irritants. I share what little I know. I would dearly miss this site because there is so much collective knowledge. The bird threads in particular keep me striving for more opportunities in that realm. I also have enjoyed some of the "fireworks" that have erupted on occasion; nothing quite like a good friendly brawl. However, I hate it when people stoop to personal attacks that typically are driven by their own egos.

And yes, without GAS the site would certainly be diminished.

Jack
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,224
1,383
Hamburg, Germany
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.
Honestly, also thanks to you for sharing so many of your thoughts. It's been nice reading about how your experiences with the gear shaped your thoughts and the results you get from it. Your journey from your original stand point regarding the R system to where you are now has been a fun read and I enjoy the little bits about the R6 you post - a camera that seems somewhat underrepresented in this forum.
 
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keithcooper

EOS RP
CR Pro
Lest it be thought otherwise - one of the reason I do my reviews etc really is 'just' to get new kit to play with - The Laowa 15mm shift lens turned up yesterday, for example ;-)
That and writing about it is my way of forcing myself to do more and put more effort into expanding my skills.

The 'new gear will cure my problems' attitude does intrude on any technical-ish forum, but there are more than enough people who also want to know how and why it might do so.

The step changes in my own photography were mostly technically driven (at first) - full frame digital (1Ds) - big prints (Epson 9600) - lens movements (TS-E24) - wide angle (EF14mm) - Profiling (eye-one pro) - Gigapan (a 47 foot print) - macro (MP-E65) - image re-sizing (various, recently Gigapixel AI)
 

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
232
160
Yes, if those things become an issue in architectural photography, you need to evacuate from the building immediately. There is an earthquake.
Well, there is a camera for every situation, that is why 20MP is for news and fast action, and 50MP for architectual, crop sensor for birds more than FF etc... Fast AF for naimals and stable tripod for long exposures... As said, the R5 has a leap jump as far its AF system is, the fact it means almost nothing to architectual jut means that people who take areal photography will not find upgrading to the R5 (they also don't need anything above one shot, so what 20FPS will give any benefit as well?) worth while.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,739
603
Davidson, NC
I found this video quite helpful in several ways. I'm not in the market for new gear. If I buy something in the next year or so, it could be the 5D IV next time the price drops enough. But even with it, I would miss the articulating screen and would wind up using my 6D2 a lot anyway. The R5 sounds like a great camera, but I don't think it would solve anything for me that I need solving. The same things that annoy Keith would also annoy me.

Those of you who chase around flying birds have very different needs from mine. And that's fine: I don't mind reading about them. When I get a new telephoto lens, I shoot birds at and around the feeders next door. They are beautiful and abundant and no challenge to catch, unlike the deer who duck behind trees when you point something at them. I almost never have an issue with autofocus, but then I don't try to use it in obvious situations for manual focusing, like most macros with a tripod.