Canon EOS R5 impressions by a Canon EOS 5Ds shooter

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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I think this new type of gear may prove to provide a greater improvement in the process of capturing images, rather than the results. Especially with birds, there is often not much one can do to take control of the situation, perspective or composition when the action is happening. Ofcourse experience, preparation, technique and not least of all luck play a part. Those are the skills one can hone. The actual proces of taking the picture though is something that I can see being greatly improved with the AF and other advancements the latest generation of cameras provide. I can imagine not just getting more keepers from a purely technical aspect (blurry du to slow AF, bad wing position due to too few FPS) but also getting less frustrating moments were the intent was not properly carried out by the camera, be it due to user error or an actual limitation of the equipment.

As a tech enthusiast, I am just saying that I absolutely agree that you do not need the latest and greatest and should not expect it to improve your results if there are other aspects about your shooting you can work on. But it also is not like there aren't things one can appreciate about new tech even if they often don't directly contribute to the end results in a significant way.

Nothing I can fault in your comments. It's personal, and for me coming from no formal training in photography it's been easy as an engineer and very handy person for me to master my gear in theory (I still get excited and forget basic things in the moment) but it wasn't until PBD (Scott) suggested a book, The Photographer's Eye, that my eyes really were opened up and I came to realize I was pretty pathetic in spite of the odd lucky photo. The reasons I have any photos I can be proud of are: good equipment, reasonable technical understanding of my equipment, patience/perseverance, preparedness and LUCK. Mostly the latter, but I'll take it and pretend I'm good! :)

Jack
 

Fischer

EOS RP
Mar 17, 2020
246
176
That's not really all I said is it?

You perhaps gloss over my mention of:
"New kit can encourage you to expand and explore your photography, or it's 'failings' provide an excuse as to why the next model is what is really needed ;-)"

I would be the last to say new kit is a waste of time...

No, I read it carefully.

You clearly shared that you think you know what the majority of others at this forum think and that your approach to photography is somehow better/superior: "This entire site* is bolstered by the widely held (even if rarely admitted) belief that a new camera/lens/printer/paper/ink will improve your photography" followed by: "as a way of ignoring the fundamental issues of getting round to taking 'better' photos in the first place" to underline your point.

As I said - I am no fan of that.

I am closing here.
 

Act444

EOS R
May 4, 2011
1,126
198
Don't fall for that marketing iso trick. This is what Bryan from TDP writes:

"The marketing department is always quick to state a camera's ISO range, but reality is that the usable settings within that range are what really matter. I immediately dismiss the highest stops as having a too-low SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio)"
"As the ISO setting increases from 100 through 800, noise levels grow. But, they remain very low, as usual, showing the impressive capabilities of a modern, high-resolution full-frame imaging sensor. At ISO 1600 through ISO 3200, noise levels become noticeable though images still look very good at these settings. By ISO 6400, images begin to show noticeable impact from noise, and by ISO 12800, noise is strong. ISO 25600 through 51200 results look bad unless downsized significantly, and ISO 102400 results are terrible, seemingly good enough for only marketing purposes. "


There's not much difference between my R5 and 5DSR in the iso ranges where I work (320 - 6400).

Wow, that’s admittedly disappointing, especially given the 5-year gap.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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Alberta, Canada
Wow, that’s admittedly disappointing, especially given the 5-year gap.
We don't always realize the physical limitations behind what we'd like to see happening. What if we expect that each year a car comes out that it will have significantly better breaking distances and then we find out that it is actually a little worse.:) We'd probably say, well it's a heavier car or the tires were changed or ... and accept it as normal.

Jack
 

YuengLinger

Godzilla needs boxing lessons.
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,483
1,932
USA
Very true - the more I test printers and cameras the more I realise that the technical capabilities have long since passed the photographic abilities of many people using them (myself included sometimes ;-)

This entire site* is bolstered by the widely held (even if rarely admitted) belief that a new camera/lens/printer/paper/ink will improve your photography, and all too often as a way of ignoring the fundamental issues of getting round to taking 'better' photos in the first place. New kit can encourage you to expand and explore your photography, or it's 'failings' provide an excuse as to why the next model is what is really needed ;-)

*yes, I am aware that my own site depends on this to some extent as well ;-) I'm lucky enough to get all this kit to experiment with and explore the technical, so I can't really complain too much, it's helped my own work no end ;-)
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.

But I still have to learn a new camera inside-out, and I have to practice all the time, and I have to have projects and goals and gigs! If I just buy a camera, put it on a shelf, and wait for the next generation, of course nothing changes. And no photos get taken.

But, Keith, I might understand some of what you are saying about what regulars want from this site and what we share. Sometimes I get frustrated that a long anticipated lens, say, finally gets released after months or even years of talking about it, and then it is almost immediately forgotten unless a firmware update is announced. (But that doesn't mean we aren't out using it!) And just general advice is not always shared patiently, completely, or compassionately. I'm guilty of impatience; and, l'm not the only one, but I get tired of an endless train of complaints about perceived shortcomings of this or that, and silly arguments about things that will never affect images...And then when we don't have actual gear to argue about, there's always industry news.

I do wish more of us shared images, but now there is such concern about identity issues, about our privacy and the privacy of our subjects...(It isn't only this site. I believe digital images and the Internet have forever altered street photography. Before 2000, people would see somebody with a camera and think few others would ever see photos from that camera. Now, in a moment, the world can see them.)

But there is help here for those who have real questions, help that cannot easily be found anywhere else--not even from a tech-support staff, and there is strong evidence of caring about this online community (though I sometimes get a little rude or highhanded myself!).

All in all, having dipped into and frequented various online forums for longer than I like to say, this one is a gem. Just because we talk a lot about gear doesn't mean we don't care deeply about photography, about great images and improving our skills, and helping others. This forum more often than not does focus on a specific aspect of our personalities. It allows us to talk about our greatest passion apart from our families and other personal relationships--gear! Talking about the tools that enable us to TAKE PICTURES. In a world saturated with smartphone cameras, here we are, just as nuts and in love with photography as ever!

And thank you, Keith, for being such an important teacher. Your site, along with Jeff Schewe's The Digital Print, made it possible for me to understand printing and produce consistently strong prints. I should have written a thanks to you years ago. You are one of the lighthouses in this crazy worldwide web. Thank you!

And thank you to the creators and all the moderators of this site!
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,894
685
Davidson, NC
1) the AF system which got a huge upgrade in terms of folowing live moving objects and 2) much faster shooting speed up to 20fps, (I can also add that the ISO range of the R5 is exceeding that of the 5Ds).

Yes, if those things become an issue in architectural photography, you need to evacuate from the building immediately. There is an earthquake.
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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Alberta, Canada
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.

But I still have to learn a new camera inside-out, and I have to practice all the time, and I have to have projects and goals and gigs! If I just buy a camera, put it on a shelf, and wait for the next generation, of course nothing changes. And no photos get taken.

But, Keith, I might understand some of what you are saying about what regulars want from this site and what we share. Sometimes I get frustrated that a long anticipated lens, say, finally gets released after months or even years of talking about it, and then it is almost immediately forgotten unless a firmware update is announced. (But that doesn't mean we aren't out using it!) And just general advice is not always shared patiently, completely, or compassionately. I'm guilty of impatience; and, l'm not the only one, but I get tired of an endless train of complaints about perceived shortcomings of this or that, and silly arguments about things that will never affect images...And then when we don't have actual gear to argue about, there's always industry news.

I do wish more of us shared images, but now there is such concern about identity issues, about our privacy and the privacy of our subjects...(It isn't only this site. I believe digital images and the Internet have forever altered street photography. Before 2000, people would see somebody with a camera and think few others would ever see photos from that camera. Now, in a moment, the world can see them.)

But there is help here for those who have real questions, help that cannot easily be found anywhere else--not even from a tech-support staff, and there is strong evidence of caring about this online community (though I sometimes get a little rude or highhanded myself!).

All in all, having dipped into and frequented various online forums for longer than I like to say, this one is a gem. Just because we talk a lot about gear doesn't mean we don't care deeply about photography, about great images and improving our skills, and helping others. This forum more often than not does focus on a specific aspect of our personalities. It allows us to talk about our greatest passion apart from our families and other personal relationships--gear! Talking about the tools that enable us to TAKE PICTURES. In a world saturated with smartphone cameras, here we are, just as nuts and in love with photography as ever!

And thank you, Keith, for being such an important teacher. Your site, along with Jeff Schewe's The Digital Print, made it possible for me to understand printing and produce consistently strong prints. I should have written a thanks to you years ago. You are one of the lighthouses in this crazy worldwide web. Thank you!

And thank you to the creators and all the moderators of this site!

I also have great admiration for those who go to great lengths to share and those who have been around the longest tend to be great contributors while some fly by nighters or trolls are great irritants. I share what little I know. I would dearly miss this site because there is so much collective knowledge. The bird threads in particular keep me striving for more opportunities in that realm. I also have enjoyed some of the "fireworks" that have erupted on occasion; nothing quite like a good friendly brawl. However, I hate it when people stoop to personal attacks that typically are driven by their own egos.

And yes, without GAS the site would certainly be diminished.

Jack
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,535
1,822
Hamburg, Germany
IBIS and lens IS measurably improve my photography. More precise AF in Canon's mirrorless FF also significantly improve my photography.
Honestly, also thanks to you for sharing so many of your thoughts. It's been nice reading about how your experiences with the gear shaped your thoughts and the results you get from it. Your journey from your original stand point regarding the R system to where you are now has been a fun read and I enjoy the little bits about the R6 you post - a camera that seems somewhat underrepresented in this forum.
 
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keithcooper

EOS RP
CR Pro
Lest it be thought otherwise - one of the reason I do my reviews etc really is 'just' to get new kit to play with - The Laowa 15mm shift lens turned up yesterday, for example ;-)
That and writing about it is my way of forcing myself to do more and put more effort into expanding my skills.

The 'new gear will cure my problems' attitude does intrude on any technical-ish forum, but there are more than enough people who also want to know how and why it might do so.

The step changes in my own photography were mostly technically driven (at first) - full frame digital (1Ds) - big prints (Epson 9600) - lens movements (TS-E24) - wide angle (EF14mm) - Profiling (eye-one pro) - Gigapan (a 47 foot print) - macro (MP-E65) - image re-sizing (various, recently Gigapixel AI)
 

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
249
176
Yes, if those things become an issue in architectural photography, you need to evacuate from the building immediately. There is an earthquake.
Well, there is a camera for every situation, that is why 20MP is for news and fast action, and 50MP for architectual, crop sensor for birds more than FF etc... Fast AF for naimals and stable tripod for long exposures... As said, the R5 has a leap jump as far its AF system is, the fact it means almost nothing to architectual jut means that people who take areal photography will not find upgrading to the R5 (they also don't need anything above one shot, so what 20FPS will give any benefit as well?) worth while.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,894
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I found this video quite helpful in several ways. I'm not in the market for new gear. If I buy something in the next year or so, it could be the 5D IV next time the price drops enough. But even with it, I would miss the articulating screen and would wind up using my 6D2 a lot anyway. The R5 sounds like a great camera, but I don't think it would solve anything for me that I need solving. The same things that annoy Keith would also annoy me.

Those of you who chase around flying birds have very different needs from mine. And that's fine: I don't mind reading about them. When I get a new telephoto lens, I shoot birds at and around the feeders next door. They are beautiful and abundant and no challenge to catch, unlike the deer who duck behind trees when you point something at them. I almost never have an issue with autofocus, but then I don't try to use it in obvious situations for manual focusing, like most macros with a tripod.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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Alberta, Canada
Well, there is a camera for every situation, that is why 20MP is for news and fast action, and 50MP for architectual, crop sensor for birds more than FF etc... Fast AF for naimals and stable tripod for long exposures... As said, the R5 has a leap jump as far its AF system is, the fact it means almost nothing to architectual jut means that people who take areal photography will not find upgrading to the R5 (they also don't need anything above one shot, so what 20FPS will give any benefit as well?) worth while.
Yes but we've had this issue with 1 series being "flagship" and having features that the others don't so you have to choose between some helpful/great features with low MPs and the others that are not "flagship". I don't understand why Canon has, and I don't like this word, "crippled" the other cameras. The only explanation to me might be price point.

Jack
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
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Yes but we've had this issue with 1 series being "flagship" and having features that the others don't so you have to choose between some helpful/great features with low MPs and the others that are not "flagship". I don't understand why Canon has, and I don't like this word, "crippled" the other cameras. The only explanation to me might be price point.

Jack
Just look back a little. When we just put the appropriate film into a camera the measure of a body was how many features it had, but whatever we needed that body to do we put in the appropriate film. Now we can’t do that and there is direct conflict on what some professionals need, do you need more mp and lower frames per second or the other way around? Is bit depth and color reproduction key to your work or are you more interested in the quality of ooc jpegs? These requirements are in direct contrast with each other so no single body can ever be a “flagship” body for all ever again.

Ever since the 1DX Canon have felt the 1 series body and functionality can be served in a single body. Sales of the 5D IV and R5 would suggest they are probably correct.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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Alberta, Canada
Just look back a little. When we just put the appropriate film into a camera the measure of a body was how many features it had, but whatever we needed that body to do we put in the appropriate film. Now we can’t do that and there is direct conflict on what some professionals need, do you need more mp and lower frames per second or the other way around? Is bit depth and color reproduction key to your work or are you more interested in the quality of ooc jpegs? These requirements are in direct contrast with each other so no single body can ever be a “flagship” body for all ever again.

Ever since the 1DX Canon have felt the 1 series body and functionality can be served in a single body. Sales of the 5D IV and R5 would suggest they are probably correct.
Yes, no problem with your comments but let's say for example my 1DX2 has the two front buttons and I want that in my next non-1 series camera, why can't I have that, or focus point tied exposure, etc.? These things are not conflicting with anything other than perhaps body size.

Jack
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Yes, no problem with your comments but let's say for example my 1DX2 has the two front buttons and I want that in my next non-1 series camera, why can't I have that, or focus point tied exposure, etc.? These things are not conflicting with anything other than perhaps body size.

Jack
Marketing, product differentiation, "crippling"; call it what you want Canon are good at this, and looking at their commercial success in cameras it's difficult to argue against them. If you really want those two buttons on the front then buy the 1 series. One of the recent things I had a wry smile about: notice how on the original 5D and the 5DII the card door didn't have a rubberised grip covering, it was just plastic and became shiny with use. On the 5DIII/s/sr the rubber finish appeared, as well as on the later 5DIV, finishing the side of the camera off nicely. On the very expensive R5 it's gone again. No doubt on the R5II or maybe III it will come back as a visual indication of the superiority of the new camera ;)
 

Fischer

EOS RP
Mar 17, 2020
246
176
On the 5DIII/s/sr the rubber finish appeared, as well as on the later 5DIV, finishing the side of the camera off nicely. On the very expensive R5 it's gone again. No doubt on the R5II or maybe III it will come back as a visual indication of the superiority of the new camera ;)
Was already used on the 5DII. They probably got rid of it because it would sometimes wear down and fall off which - even if rare - is unacceptable for such expensive hardware. So unlikely to return imho.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,728
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Alberta, Canada
Canon does as Canon wishes but it seems there was some outside influence in creating the R5, so maybe there is hope that in the future this leaving off of features will decrease. I guess my/our hope lies in the competition which is clearly as strong as it's ever been.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Thanks for the links. It's not really worth arguing about, but I'm attaching a shot of one of my old 5DII cameras and you can see quite clearly that the card door doesn't have a rubberised finish. Or maybe it fell off ;).
_MGL8483-2.jpg

The AliExpress link with the new rubber kit for the 5DII doesn't include anything for the card door. In the shutter replacement video you can see that the card door is just bare plastic. I looked because you got me wondering if maybe late versions of the 5DII did have the nicely finished door !! Are you sure you don't mean the 5DIII ? That and the IV do have the rubber finish and I'm betting that the R5II or III will have it too:)
 
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