Canon EOS R5 Mark II to arrive before EOS R1? [CR2]

[dolina]

In case you want to move to a slightly more recent MacOS (doesn't need to be Ventura), I've recently found https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ . It was very straightforward to move my 2015 iMac and 2012 MBP to latest Ventura, I could even reuse a camera 32GB SD card as the install/update medium

If the 27" iMac doesn't happen and you are looking for an external monitor, have a look at this article about resulution and scaling on MacOS, the graphic halfway down shows which size+resolution combinations to avoid.

I've read up on OCLP patcher user experience and it appears to me that the newer the macOS version installed on older Macs the more slower, buggier, and lower quality of life experience you get. It is akin to running Windows 11 on the bare minimum system requirements. It may run but it will crawl.

Example... my 2012 Mac is up to 2019 macOS Catalina. If I installed 2022 macOS Ventura on it then it will not be 100% functional and at a snapiness of of a 2019 macOS.

I'm not the target audience. I prefer Apple release a 2023 iMac 27" M2 Pro 5nm as my Fusion Drive's HDD is dead, left speaker is busted and LED backlight at the edge of the display are dimming.

I have a 2019 MBP 16" 14nm with 2022 macOS Ventura and between that and the 2019 macOS I do not see any compelling feature to go through the hassle. What is key here is the Security Update.

TBH if I knew that Apple was jumping from 5 years of 14nm Intel chips to 5nm Mac SoC I'd have kept to my 2011 MBP 13" 32nm and go direct to a 2021 MBP 16" 5nm!

A Mac mini + external display is useful for those who want to upgrade prior to the last Security Update. For my use case I do not mind keeping the Mac until its last Security Update that gets released after its 9th year.

Some point the "waste" of a good display. This 2012 iMac has a 2.5K display. The 5K display was 1st released in the 2014 model. Has remained largely unchanged for a decade.

 

[padam]

Those specs are bogus just like they were for the R8.
It will be a conservative update just like the R6 Mark II was (more upgrades for video than stills)
The R5 sensor is current generation, so they will keep using that.
They will enable 4k60p Fine recording, no 30-min limit, photo/video switch on the left side, revamped AF system, improved battery life, breathing correction, false colour, etc. just the usual stuff that comes with the updated Digic X processor.

 

[Hector1970]

I am one of Canons best ever customers. The R5 is so good I think they will struggle to make a meaningful upgrade. Hopefully it will be desirable. Focusing/Tracking could be better. Not sure if I’d find more FPS or higher MP attractive. Improved video would be waste on me. Part of me is looking on in horror at Midjourney and what AI is now capable of. I wonder will photography decrease in popularity with the rise of AI. I find it cold and creepy but a lot of photographers on Instagram are dabbling in it. When eventually we can’t tell real from AI will it detract from the next potential generation of photographers. I’m too old now to abandon photography, it’s still an enjoyable past-time. I wonder should Canon abandon the R1. They’ve delayed delivering it (I would personally believe the R3 started life as the R1. If Canon deliver the R1 as a high MP camera where will they go from there. The room to improve is very narrow.

 

[SHAMwow]

Cameras are like phones now. You aren't meant to consecutively upgrade every time a new model comes out, or a new mark of the model you currently have. I probably won't be looking at another camera body until a "R5 Mk. III or IV". They'll be conservative improvements and customers will leap frog around as it makes sense. Which I like.

 

[dolina]

Cameras are like phones now. You aren't meant to consecutively upgrade every time a new model comes out, or a new mark of the model you currently have. I probably won't be looking at another camera body until a "R5 Mk. III or IV". They'll be conservative improvements and customers will leap frog around as it makes sense. Which I like.

Those are fighting words on CR.

Someone will get offended that they cannot get their latest "tool".

But I agree with you. If i could do this over again I'd replace the full frame body & 3 L 2.8 lenses every decade to get max utilization for people photography.

 

[AlanF]

Interesting stats.

I learned to ID EF vs RF by visiting CR every so often eyeballing your delightful images. ;-)

That is why I am waiting eagerly for RF 135mm f/1.8L IS USM samples

I just wonder to myself... is it worth chasing the last 1% of performance if I haven't touched that 2015 camera from 2019-today?

Yesterday my 2012 iMac 27" 22nm turned a decade old. Have not upgraded it since use case has not changed since 2015.

I look forward to moving to a 2023 iMac 27" 5nm when one becomes available hopefully within 4 months. Why? Because it received its final Security Update over 6 months ago.

Having used it 1/2 day nearly daily for 3650 days it is time to replace its entirety.

I'm not sure whether you are still doing bird photos. I was able to get images which were for me more than good enough with the 5DSR + EF 400mm DO II or for zoom the EF 100-400mm II for perched birds and even got good at BIF, despite the slow fps. (The AF of the Nikon D850 + 500mm f/5.6 PF was a real step up from that). I would still be happy using that gear and going on my frequent birding trips. But, this is the real difference RF makes for me. Firstly, the AF of the R5 is simply remarkable for rapidly finding and tracking BIF as well as unerringly focussing on their eyes for static shots. OK, you could argue it is just a step forwards, but I think it is more than that. Secondly, which I think is a breakthrough, the R5 and its family can focus very quickly at f/8, pretty fast at f/11 and still focus at f/22. This means that I can use light and inexpensive telephoto lenses. This afternoon, I went out with the RF 800 f/11 which is half the weight of my former 400mm DO II at f/8 with the 2xTC at a tiny fraction of the price, just as sharp and crucially I can easily hike with it and comfortably hold it, which I find difficult now for lenses weighing 2+ kg. Even more to the point, my wife can no longer handle the EF 100-400mm II on the 5DSR but she can the the tiny RF100-400mm which is close to its older big brother in sharpness, if not as good, and is extremely light. You are young, but for us oldies these lightweight lenses are enabling us to keep going and are affordable for everyone who can't afford the old big whites.

 

[dolina]

I'm not sure whether you are still doing bird photos.

Have not done so since my 2018 TX trip. It is a hoot to go birding with my mom's BFF. Food is great, company is great and it is all laughs without loonies.

But, this is the real difference RF makes for me. Firstly, the AF of the R5 is simply remarkable for rapidly finding and tracking BIF as well as unerringly focussing on their eyes for static shots.

Actually Alan your work really sold me on the R5 proficiency. I was wondering why other R5 owners were having difficulty using it.

I had an opportunity to get the R5 at a great price but I then recalled I have not handled a camera for a few years.

When I buy new gear I try to leverage all its purported features and maximize it rather than using it like a 1995 film dSLR by going all manual unless I want to go into some artsy fartsy aesthetic.

Why handle a 1-Series body like a Rebel from 2 decades ago? It is like driving a Ferrari today as if it was a 1960s VW Bug.

 

[John Wilde]

"The next Olympic Games will be held in Paris, France, from 26 July to 11 August 2024, and in Milan and Cortina d'Ampezzo, in Italy, in 2026."

So, we will hopefully see an R1 in 2024.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

My unfounded prediction is that the R6 III and R8 II will have 30 MP which is one of the last things I see EOS R owners holding out for.
Also, the R5 should be under $3K USD by 2024 making it also a worthy upgrade choice.

If I decide to upgrade or to get a second body to join my R, it will most likely be in 2024, so R6mkiii and R8mkii are absolutely not an option Furthermore, I guess the respective mkiii and mkii will still miss features I love such as the top display (R6) or better battery life (R8).

If the choices I like are too expensive or never hit the market, I'll just keep shooting the R until it dies (hopefully never!)
To be honest, I/ we am/ are spoiled with great choices and I "don't need" to upgrade because I'm happy with my R, it is just that AF/ FPS is not really great for wildlife...

 

[Exploreshootshare]

Canon has that option to slide the R5 down below its $3899 or maintain it and price increase the R5 Mark II to R3 pricing while the R1 sells for $9,999.

Economies of scale at play here... ;-)

Based on the price of the R8 compared to the RP and R6mkii to R6, I guess the R5 mkii will climb to 4.999 € (coming from 4.499 €). In addition, keep in mind the R5 was released BEFORE the pandemic made prices climb and far before the inflation starting increase due the ongoing war and everything related. Therefore, 4.999 € might even be wishful thinking...
For me, I know that if I choose the R5, it will the mki and most probable a used copy.

 

[dolina]

Based on the price of the R8 compared to the RP and R6mkii to R6, I guess the R5 mkii will climb to 4.999 € (coming from 4.499 €). In addition, keep in mind the R5 was released BEFORE the pandemic made prices climb and far before the inflation starting increase due the ongoing war and everything related. Therefore, 4.999 € might even be wishful thinking...
For me, I know that if I choose the R5, it will the mki and most probable a used copy.

R5 is a year 2020 model. COVID occurred that year.

IIRC price bumps was caused by supply chain constraints.

*sigh*.... covid crash... where you can make every 1 € into 19 € within 49 weeks. :-( So say you have 200 thousand € it turns into nearly 3.8 million €. FIRE money right there.

With worldwide ILC units shipments reducing to 6-7 million expect higher prices for full frame bodies.

 

[unfocused]

All this talk about need vs. want.

Who cares?

I will buy the R5II (actually I will buy two of them, since I will want to upgrade my wife's R5 as well). I will convince myself that it has features I need. And, with confirmation bias I will swear that it was worth the cost. But, in the end, what difference does it make? Those who don't upgrade can feel superior because they resisted the urge and the marketing campaign. Those who do upgrade can feel superior because they have the better toy.

Given the choice between feeling virtuous for resisting and having fun with a new toy, I'm going for the toy.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

R5 is a year 2020 model. COVID occurred that year.

IIRC price bumps was caused by supply chain constraints.

COVID struck in March 2020, the R5 release was in July 2020. For the first few months the prices did not increase at a great pace (at least in Germany). The huge price climb came late in 2021 and then February 1st, 2021 (at least for Canon products). Therefore, I don't think the pandemic price climb was not calculate by Canon in the R5 initial pricing. Furthermore, the R5/ R6 was so crucial for Canon, they had to be a success, otherwise Canon would have been in trouble. I don't think their RF mark-up for the bodies was as extreme as it was with some lenses. But now there is different situation: Canon is well-established in the MILC market and they can predict the price... not good news for potential mkii customers.

 

[roby17269]

Those specs are bogus just like they were for the R8.
It will be a conservative update just like the R6 Mark II was (more upgrades for video than stills)
The R5 sensor is current generation, so they will keep using that.
They will enable 4k60p Fine recording, no 30-min limit, photo/video switch on the left side, revamped AF system, improved battery life, breathing correction, false colour, etc. just the usual stuff that comes with the updated Digic X processor.

I fear you may be right but I hope you will be proven wrong
In any case, no resolution increase means no sale for me. I do agree that the 45mp sensor will be used in other cameras, but I hope the next R5 will have higher mp. If not I will keep my fingers crossed for the mythical beast whose name shall not be uttered (R1).
Maybe it's for the better so I can spend more on lenses Adorama has just charged my card for the RF 135mm f/1.8L IS! yay...

 

[dolina]

COVID struck in March 2020, the R5 release was in July 2020. For the first few months the prices did not increase at a great pace (at least in Germany). The huge price climb came late in 2021 and then February 1st, 2021 (at least for Canon products). Therefore, I don't think the pandemic price climb was not calculate by Canon in the R5 initial pricing. Furthermore, the R5/ R6 was so crucial for Canon, they had to be a success, otherwise Canon would have been in trouble. I don't think their RF mark-up for the bodies was as extreme as it was with some lenses. But now there is different situation: Canon is well-established in the MILC market and they can predict the price... not good news for potential mkii customers.

Typically in corporate purchases the BoM, supply chain, logistics and other expenses are agreed upon ahead of time. Probably prior to COVID-19's discovery.

So when the production run has been completed they renegotiate based on prevailing prices so the price increase occurred.

Canon 2022 financials stated they shipped 2.86 million units of the 5,926,733 ILC units that CIPA members disclosed. For 2023 they aim for 2.9 million unit.

Canon has nearly half of the ILC market. I think in future ILCs, that will soon exclude dSLRs, will be 6-7 million only if they are lucky.

 

[Jethro]

I look forward to moving to a 2023 iMac 27" 5nm when one becomes available hopefully within 4 months. Why? Because it received its final Security Update over 6 months ago.

Having used it 1/2 day nearly daily for 3650 days it is time to replace its entirety.

Here's hoping it really does appear this year! My 2015 27" iMac isn't as old as yours, and still very happily runs Ventura, but within a couple of years I'll probably need to replace it - and I can't imagine moving away from that 5K monitor.

 

[Blorp]

I'm not sure what the R5 II could give me as a reason to upgrade (from a 20D the 5D II, III, IV, R5 all had good improvements).

 

[josephandrews222]

I'm not sure what the R5 II could give me as a reason to upgrade (from a 20D the 5D II, III, IV, R5 all had good improvements).

Blorp: You have a nice history with Canon.

But your comment surprises me (sort of)...in that your own personal experience suggests that the 5D updates all had good improvements!

Isn't it logical that the R5 updates will similarly 'all had/have good improvements'...?

 

[David - Sydney]

While an R5 II coming soon would makes sense, I would rather see an R5 S first.

Maybe Canon thinks that 60mp on a R5ii is a high res body vs limited sales of a R5s.
Personally, the "60mp" rumour is just to match Sony so accuracy would be low.

 

[padam]

I fear you may be right but I hope you will be proven wrong
In any case, no resolution increase means no sale for me. I do agree that the 45mp sensor will be used in other cameras, but I hope the next R5 will have higher mp.

45MP really is the perfect the sweet spot to have a versatile camera that can tackle everything, landscape (resolution), sports(speed, buffer size), high quality 4k/8k video(readout speed). They can only make it worse by changing this. Lifting some video limitations is still a big upgrade for hybrid shooters and stills shooters will appreciate the AF improvements.
The R5 sensor is only slightly slower than the R6 II sensor with much more pixels, they are leading the pack of non-stacked sensors.

For comparison, the A7RV has 61MP with a really slow readout sensor, much more stills-focused, nowhere near as balanced.
The R5s will be there for those who need it.

I am not sure what Nikon is cooking with the Z8. If they are smart they will try to keep most of what a Z9 is in a smaller body, they should not deviate from a 45MP stacked sensor at this point in time.