Canon EOS R8 specifications

Jethro

EOS R
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Jul 14, 2018
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Good point about the APS-C line.
But the FF pricing almost makes sense !

CameraPrice (US $)Increase (%)
RP1000
R8150050
R6 Mk ii250067
R5350040
R3560060
R1 (projected -- 50% more than R3)840050
You're right, and it's looking like a good range. The only 'overlap' at the moment would be the EOS R which is around about USD1500 - but who knows the future of it if/when the R8 arrives? If you add a couple of the APS-C bodies in at the lower end of the range, it starts to make even more sense.
 
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Good point about the APS-C line.
But the FF pricing almost makes sense !

CameraPrice (US $)Increase (%)
RP1000
R8150050
R6 Mk ii250067
R5350040
R3560060
R1 (projected -- 50% more than R3)840050
I think the better way is comparing MSRP of release date. It means which place manufacturers wants to put it in. It is hard for me to understand Canon seems to give up around 2000USD market. The R7 and R8 are the same 1499USD. And R6II is 2499USD. R7 and R8 are cheaper 1000/USD than R6II. The range is so big. There should be a camera body for around 2000USD, but there is no news and rumor for it.

In the past, When Canon releases new generation product, it will not stop manufacturing the old one immediately, but it will decrease its productions and stop promoting the old one. Maybe Canon cut the price of original R6 for this price point.
 
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entoman

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Beside the point of this discussion, why do you believe smaller sensor formats will benefit more/first from this? As it's computing, surely it's file size (ie resolution) that matters to the speed, not the physical sensor size?
My limited understanding, based on what I’ve read in various on-line articles, is:

M43 bodies are similar in size to small FF bodies, which means that the IBIS unit can be made larger (therefore more efficient) in relation to the sensor size. Less movement between consecutive frames in a burst = more accurate merging of frames.

Smaller sensors have a smaller area of circuitry (other things being equal), which leads to faster data transfer, and (assuming the same processor power) faster data processing.

The (mechanical) shutter on M43 is smaller and lighter (than FF), therefore potentially faster in terms of the delay between each cycle of a burst. That results in potentially much faster fps - further reducing camera movement between consecutive frames.


In combination, the above mentioned factors provide the potential for faster bursts, less camera movement between frames, and faster data processing, which makes merges of consecutive frames potentially faster and more accurate than is possible with full frame. In conjunction with AI “computational photography” it will allow M43 to (amongst other things) offer very efficient focus stacking, noise reduction, stabilisation, and hand-held hi-res pixel shift (even with moving subjects).

The above, together with the much smaller and lighter M43 lenses (for a given angle of view and light-gathering power) are some of the reasons why I believe that M43 has a very bright future. The only fly in the ointment is that Canon, Nikon and Sony are not in the M43 alliance, and are unlikely to join it. So it’s very likely IMO that within 10 years the big brands will launch new, smaller mounts, to accommodate smaller sensors (1” anyone?).
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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What is the point of all these 5% different budget cameras? Just bring out the R1 already.
Canon is a huge company and can afford to offer multiple choices, so why not? Be grateful that there is so much choice!

Canon won't launch an "R1" until they are satisfied that they have a product that will equal or better the Nikon Z9 and the Sony a1. They nearly always time the launch of their flagship to coincide with the Olympics, so I don't expect a R1 until summer 2024, and the first glimpses of a prototype R1 being tested "in the wild" probably won't come until spring 2024. In the meantime the R3 and R5 are more than capable of fulfilling the needs of 99.9% of pros and serious hobbyists.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Canon won't launch an "R1" until they are satisfied that they have a product that will equal or better the Nikon Z9 and the Sony a1. They nearly always time the launch of their flagship to coincide with the Olympics, so I don't expect a R1 until summer 2024, and the first glimpses of a prototype R1 being tested "in the wild" probably won't come until spring 2024. In the meantime the R3 and R5 are more than capable of fulfilling the needs of 99.9% of pros and serious hobbyists.
Kwanon is never late, nor is she early. She arrives precisely when she means to. The 1-series bodies have been on a 4-year cycle, coinciding with the summer Olympics, for some time now. The 1D X III was launched in 2020. The R1 should be launched in 2024.

I think it's not really about being 'equal or better' than Sony and Nikon. When you're in the lead, looking back just slows you down. Rather, the onus is on Sony and Nikon to one-up Canon.
 
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Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
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Nov 11, 2012
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I remember when stuff manufactured in Japan was Jap Cr@p and then they became the leader in JIT/quality in the 90s.
Wasn’t that expression just reserved for their early cars ? :ROFLMAO:
My post wasn’t really referring to quality; I accept that cameras made in Thailand, Philippines etc are as well made as those in Japan, assuming the parent company intends them to be, but rather manufacture in Japan is likely to be more expensive.
 
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koenkooi

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Feb 25, 2015
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Wasn’t that expression just reserved for their early cars ? :ROFLMAO:
My post wasn’t really referring to quality; I accept that cameras made in Thailand, Philippines etc are as well made as those in Japan, assuming the parent company intends them to be, but rather manufacture in Japan is likely to be more expensive.
My experience with electronics manufacturing, having worked for a built-in-the-USA <insert eagle screech> CM, it all comes down to the supervisor on the floor, how much rejects you're willing to have during QA and the willingness to incentivize your workers to do better. It doesn't matter which country the factory is in, it's about how far you'll go to optimize costs.

Iphones weren't bending because they were made in China, they were bending because a Brit living in the US demanded form over function :)

Sadly the only way to see if the quality and endurance is up to your standards is trying it yourself for a period much longer than the return window, or waiting for reputable long term reviews.
 
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Apr 25, 2011
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Of course it is possible to reduce noise by merging a burst of images relative to a single image in that burst.
Or a burst of sub-images that you could map to the corresponding sub-image area of your reference image. Each for each sub-image area worth improving.

Now, in order to find the corresponding areas in the images subsequent to (or preceding) the reference image, you need to be able to calculate the movements of the objects across the image sequence. It is typically done by employing the idea of optical flow maps.

Optical flow maps work with 2D-objects. The less time happens between taking two images in the sequence, the more accurate this 2D assumption is in representing 3D-world movements.

So, let's put some numbers into your criterion is " if a camera could shoot half a dozen frames at 100fps there would be virtually no subject or camera movement between shots,." If I take a photo of a fast bird flying or a dragonfly with its wings flapping, I use 1/3200s as slower exposure times can lead to motion blur. In order to take 6 shots in 1/3200s, each one would have to be of duration 1/19200s or less.
You don't need to take them all in the same 1/3200s. You need them to depict the same objects as in your reference image of 1/3200s (in particular, the same wing surfaces), although not necessarily at exactly the same pixel locations as on the reference image.
 
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I have migrated from 7D/5Diii/5Div and now to R5 (pre-order). In each case, I hit the limits for some aspect of them but I haven't with the R5 after 2.5 years and have confidence that it will be good for some time to come.
Some minor things do annoy me still (fixed eshutter fps, banding in eshutter, rate button not remappable etc). The only real downside is battery life but I can still easily do 2k+ shots during indoor sports. The 70-200/2.8 can't handle 1.4x/2x TCs meant that I got the 100-500mm but haven't looked back once paid for. A new macBook Pro was needed anyway as my older 7 year old one couldn't handle the larger files.

My main key advantages of the R5 over 5Div:
Eye-AF (game changer!)
Corner-to-corner AF coverage
12-14fps mech/20fps shutter (used outdoors)
Smaller/lighter but still fits my large hands
Mechanical shutter of 500k
The R mount especially with lighter/smaller 70-200/2.8 and 100-500mm
45mp given I crop heavily sometimes
4k/30 oversampled and 4k/120 occasionally.
3 control wheels and flippy screen

The 5Div is heavier and you would think that it is more solid/hard wearing but my R5 hasn't a mark on it so far and my usage if probably more than the 5Div. YMMV of course but I wouldn't ever consider going back now.
Absolutely, and I have no doubt about the quality of the R5 and the wildly improved tools within it. I'm sure it would be a pretty good fit. I'm shooting almost exclusively on a tripod and almost exclusively in manual focus, and very often with 5 or more batteries for a week or more without power. With that said, the few times I'm not using a tripod, I'm often shooting out of an open airplane window where switching lenses can be a bit challenging on the fly - I've had a lot more success cropping and upsizing in this situation. When I replace the 5D my biggest wish for improvement is resolution above everything else for cropping and for larger printing. Beyond that, a weight reduction would be very welcome, but if anything comes at the cost of battery performance, ruggedness/weather-sealing, or low light performance, I'd have to really second think the change. I think the R5 ticks most of those boxes (except battery life, and while resolution is far better than the 5DIV, I would't be opposed to going larger). It's a good fit, but I'm not in a rush.
 
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Oh okay. Your initial post in read as in you thought there wasn't a suitable replacement. I'd say the 45 is enough on the R5 especially if you're saying that your 5DIV is your workhorse. My R5 files already eat up space as is.
45 is better, but I'm upsizing a fair bit beyond that. I'd prefer to have that data from the get go in an ideal world, but I'm sure I cloud make 45 work if I'm making 30 work now. I don't keep a ton of images unless I have a use for them as it is, and my processing has my keepers climbing up and over 2gb per photo pretty often. I'm not anticipating too much more of an impact in the change to 45mpx or higher, but even if it does start eating space, I'm content to buy more storage before I seek a lower resolution output.
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
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You don't need to take them all in the same 1/3200s. You need them to depict the same objects as in your reference image of 1/3200s (in particular, the same wing surfaces), although not necessarily at exactly the same pixel locations as on the reference image.
As I wrote in my post, these things work nicely for the subjects of @Skyscraperfan's but for birds flying, turning their heads, twitching etc or insects with wings flapping, those events can cause changes in the geometry of the subject or its movement relative to background so there is no common reference image. I prefer to have a shutter speed of 1/400s or faster even for perched birds that are apparently still. Even if you restricted your time window to 1/100s, to get 6 shots at 1/600s each to lower noise by 60% relative to a single shot at 1/600s, you would need 600 fps to cover that, and 1 shot of 1/100s duration would give the same s/n as the 6 averaged. If the objects are perfectly still, you don't need high fps, and I have used in the past averaging to reduce noise when appropriate and do also focus stacking, which requires merging bursts over a time period when the subject is static. However, with the latest noise reduction software that uses AI rather than statistical manipulations, a single image can have radically lowered noise and recovery of detail beyond what in the past would have been considered possible.
 
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My limited understanding, based on what I’ve read in various on-line articles, is:

M43 bodies are similar in size to small FF bodies, which means that the IBIS unit can be made larger (therefore more efficient) in relation to the sensor size. Less movement between consecutive frames in a burst = more accurate merging of frames.

Smaller sensors have a smaller area of circuitry (other things being equal), which leads to faster data transfer, and (assuming the same processor power) faster data processing.

The (mechanical) shutter on M43 is smaller and lighter (than FF), therefore potentially faster in terms of the delay between each cycle of a burst. That results in potentially much faster fps - further reducing camera movement between consecutive
The above, together with the much smaller and lighter M43 lenses (for a given angle of view and light-gathering power) are some of the reasons why I believe that M43 has a very bright future. The only fly in the ointment is that Canon, Nikon and Sony are not in the M43 alliance, and are unlikely to join it. So it’s very likely IMO that within 10 years the big brands will launch new, smaller mounts, to accommodate smaller sensors (1” anyone?).
Your point re IBIS is interesting but we see no extra stabilisation in Canon's IBIS-enabled APS-C body versus FF, and indeed Canon's system offered the most stops of stabilisation of any brand on release, despite being for full frame - all of which is to say, in reality, I think it's more complicated.

Mechanical shutter seems beside the point as the sort of speeds we're talking about are probably best effected by electronic shutter.

I would be astonished if the big players launch new formats but time will tell, naturally.
 
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Apr 25, 2011
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As I wrote in my post, these things work nicely for the subjects of @Skyscraperfan's but for birds flying, turning their heads, twitching etc or insects with wings flapping,
Most birds flap their wings with the frequency less than 10Hz, so 100Hz time sequences can still be useful. Hummingbirds are a special case with a special approach to the solution: they flap their wings with the frequency around 50 Hz, so, by taking every 2nd 100Hz image you can stroboscopically "slow down" their wing movements.

those events can cause changes in the geometry of the subject or its movement relative to background so there is no common reference image.
The reference image is the single one whose geometry you want (could even be chosen out of the sequence after the shooting). Then you calculate optical flows from this single image to all the other images in the sequence, geometrically distort those images back against their optical flows, and merge the resulting image stack.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
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I would be astonished if the big players launch new formats but time will tell, naturally.

Right now I'm using an R5 and half a dozen RF lenses, but what incentive is there for me and others in a similar position to buy further products? I honestly can't see a R5 Mkii, R1 (or a future Nikon or Sony) offering anything additional that I actually want or need.

All companies periodically need to launch a new range of products that are perceived as radically different, otherwise customers have little incentive to buy further products from them. New technologies will result in major, unforeseen changes to the gear we use, especially with the inevitable advent of 3D photography/videography.

I think, based on what I've read about the greater potential of smaller formats, that when RF and Z become "stale" in a few years time, that there's a good chance that they'll be superseded by smaller formats, that are better suited to computational photography, and have lighter, smaller equivalent lenses.

On the other hand, it's probably equally likely that cameras, as we currently know them, will be almost entirely replaced by smartphones or head-worn gear.

Really, it's just a case of how far into the future these things will happen.
 
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