Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]

[RobS10]

The 650d most likely won't have a huge iq improvement, it's about features (video af, touchscreen). In any case, if you wait for it you there won't be much summer left to use it... concerning your speedlite you should check if it has the ettl, or you won't have much fun with it either on the newer digital bodies.

Not interested in a touchscreen or higher MP count so much., but the video AF addition would be a big plus, and all auto focus points for stills being more like the 60D would be nice. BTW, my Speedlite is a 420EX, which is supposed to be compatible with most features.

And if you're so set on iq, either Nikon or Canon are a wash, because it much more depends on a good lens. Personally, I got the 60d over the d7000 with the better specs because I just like the usability of the Canon better and it runs a hacked firmware (magic lantern) which adds so much more over out of the box Nikon.

That's the tough decision. Because of it's better ergonomics in my hand (more dedicated buttons, familiar menu) I feel like the Canon is more fun to use, and so what if the Nikon has marginally (?) better IQ, but I don't really want to buy both, shoot a bunch of photos and return the one I don't like as many people do (Costco has both models and that great return policy). I did read about ML and forgot what "features" it adds, but sounds like a nice bonus.

 

[Marsu42]

I did read about ML and forgot what "features" it adds, but sounds like a nice bonus.

As an amateur and buying a body in this class, you shouldn't worry about minor iq differences in the sensor - you are very likely not to notice them. However, you will notice the fact that you get a cramp in your hand if the body doesn't fit it, or that you get a nervous breakdown because you hate the ergonomics.

Magic lantern is *the* killer feature for video and very handy for stills (unlimited automatic bracketing, focus stacking, focus peeking, focus trapping, ...): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified/UserGuide

 

[RobS10]

As an amateur and buying a body in this class, you shouldn't worry about minor iq differences in the sensor - you are very likely not to notice them.

Hoping that's the case. Depends on where you read though...some places make it sound a little more pronounced but trying to take them with a grain of salt.

However, you will notice the fact that you get a cramp in your hand if the body doesn't fit it.

I have large hands, so I prefer the Canon.

or that you get a nervous breakdown because you hate the ergonomics.

LOL!!

Magic lantern is *the* killer feature for video and very handy for stills (unlimited automatic bracketing, focus stacking, focus peeking, focus trapping, ...): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified/UserGuide

I take it ML is pretty stable, and not much risk in "bricking" the body?

 

[Marsu42]

I take it ML is pretty stable, and not much risk in "bricking" the body?

Canon generally isn't more for big hands than anything other, they distinguish their lineup with this, too. They used to sell $30 exchangeable large grips in the analog days, now you have to get a $300 battery grip or a $3000 larger body. For me, anything smaller than the 60d is an absolute no-go because I don't use a strap.

ML is 99,9% stable, the only thing to remember is when it should hang (didn't happen for a year for me, it was still alpha then) is to take out the battery to cut the power. Nowadays, this might only happen if one of your own scripts hangs - yes, you can write a script yourself (lua language) and then play pong or pacman on your display or do any number of automation things that make more sense. You can uninstall ml anytime, too.

 

[RobS10]

Canon generally isn't more for big hands than anything other, they distinguish their lineup with this, too. They used to sell $30 exchangeable large grips in the analog days, now you have to get a $300 battery grip or a $3000 larger body. For me, anything smaller than the 60d is an absolute no-go because I don't use a strap.

I didn't notice the Nikon was much smaller, but most reviews seem to think it's perhaps more cramped. Every time I take pictures of the family and have to hunt around to change settings, my wife gets impatient. I know you get used to whatever you have, but the more direct function buttons, the better. I liked the way the 60d felt too (and especially liked top screen, battery life and burst rate), but trying to keep my budget reasonable. As far as ML, it least it looks like it installs on the card and isn't like fiddling with the camera's internal FW and can be taken off easily...thnaks for the info

 

[dlleno]

... the Nikon seems to have the better image quality because of it's sensor, as well as some of the in-camera lens correction the Canon doesn't have (CA and lens geometry distortion correction). ...

just a thought here, but I dont' look to the camera body to provide lens correction. To me that belongs in post processing software that can continually update its library and add its own adjustable CA reduction capability. Lightroom, for example, is very good at this. Unless there is some key advantage I'm not aware of, I would rather update my PP software than update my camera's firmware to deal with a new lens, for example.

 

[Marsu42]

Unless there is some key advantage I'm not aware of, I would rather update my PP software than update my camera's firmware to deal with a new lens, for example.

It's convenient when shooting out of the box jpeg - but since there's no way to upload custom (3rd party!!!) lens profiles to the camera, it's no replacement for pp and might even hurt it: If you have vignetting on the lens, the camera raises ev in these zones and you have to lower it in post because the shot was overexposed, you're loosing dynamic resolution. And concerning CA correction, I don't think a in-camera solution can be as effective as Lightroom 4.1.

 

[dlleno]

Unless there is some key advantage I'm not aware of, I would rather update my PP software than update my camera's firmware to deal with a new lens, for example.

It's convenient when shooting out of the box jpeg - but since there's no way to upload custom (3rd party!!!) lens profiles to the camera, it's no replacement for pp and might even hurt it: If you have vignetting on the lens, the camera raises ev in these zones and you have to lower it in post because the shot was overexposed, you're loosing dynamic resolution. And concerning CA correction, I don't think a in-camera solution can be as effective as Lightroom 4.1.

right, good catch. So its only useful for out-of-box jpeg with no post, works only for lenses that the mfg is motivated to include, can't be updated without a firmware flash, and the feature has the potential to damage the final result. I suspect this is a marketing job to convince buyers that it is good, but as a practical matter it would only benefit those who use the DSLR as a point-and-shoot and are more likely to stick with the kit lens -- and in these situations the user is less likely to even know or detect the benefit and hard pressed to know if it is working well or not!

 

[illogict]

right, good catch. So its only useful for out-of-box jpeg with no post, works only for lenses that the mfg is motivated to include, can't be updated without a firmware flash, and the feature has the potential to damage the final result. I suspect this is a marketing job to convince buyers that it is good, but as a practical matter it would only benefit those who use the DSLR as a point-and-shoot and are more likely to stick with the kit lens -- and in these situations the user is less likely to even know or detect the benefit and hard pressed to know if it is working well or not!

I do tend to disagree here. I would love my current body to have in-camera CA correction. Why you ask? I don't want to do anything in post but try to get it right when opening the shutter. I'm only a beginner, but I try to learn, and I tend to think that it may be harder but is more rewarding, even though I know that a little bit of post could do wonders.

 

[Marsu42]

Why you ask? I don't want to do anything in post but try to get it right when opening the shutter.

Your mileage may vary, but from my limited experience the most important thing to learn in digital photography is to know what you have to do when shooting and what you can correct in post with what amount of work. Once you have figured that out, you can concentrate only the things that matter while shooting, reducing complexity and improving results. Imho wanting to get it right with a press of a button sounds like asking for disaster.

 

[dlleno]

right, good catch. So its only useful for out-of-box jpeg with no post, works only for lenses that the mfg is motivated to include, can't be updated without a firmware flash, and the feature has the potential to damage the final result. I suspect this is a marketing job to convince buyers that it is good, but as a practical matter it would only benefit those who use the DSLR as a point-and-shoot and are more likely to stick with the kit lens -- and in these situations the user is less likely to even know or detect the benefit and hard pressed to know if it is working well or not!

I do tend to disagree here. I would love my current body to have in-camera CA correction. Why you ask? I don't want to do anything in post but try to get it right when opening the shutter. I'm only a beginner, but I try to learn, and I tend to think that it may be harder but is more rewarding, even though I know that a little bit of post could do wonders.

sure I didn't mean to say it has no use at all I meant to call out that its broadest appeal is likely to occur under situations where it matters least and is most difficult to verify -- meaning a broad set of beginners would not care about the difference, nor would they know whether or not it is working. But you represent a notable exception to that glittering generalization -- you are a discriminating beginner who wants to submit to the discipline of creating good jpgs with no post processing. nice approach! honestly that use case did not occur to me because when I transitioned from film to digital I never did go "without post" -- but my film days brought just the discipline you are submitting yourself to. I sent many a roll of K64 to 925 Page Mill Road, Palo Alto CA.

this is not to say one can't learn digital photography without first shooting jpg with no post. but it will definately help you learn, and allow you to more fully appreciate the flexibility of things like Lightroom when you are ready.

My sense, given your chartered course, is that you will soon (6 months) want to move to raw shooting and transition from "shooting for jpg" to "shooting for lightroom" or whatever PP you choose to use.