Canon is on top again!

[pierceography]

cooler colors? they have a blue /cyan hue all over, blue asphalt, blue horse, etc. I thought it was an expression of artistry, we can take color theory in another thread if anyone are interested, from screen to print

Wow, ok... I guess we're gonna get granular here. The couple (i.e. the focal point) have a more blue(ish) hue (sorry, I guess I can't use color temperature when describing colors), which as I felt gave a more unique artistic look to the scene.

Lotta jerks in this thread, huh? In that case: lol no ur dumb. Boom.

 

[V8Beast]

I actually just had a conversation with another photographer a couple of days ago about Canon sensors trailing Nikons. He made the point that (coming from a film background), he felt that the Canon sensors (specifically talking about the 5Dc, 5d3) that he felt they gave a more film like quality in terms of colors and representation as opposed to Nikon (really Sony) sensors which was much more flat.

Many people, myself included, that come from a film background share this sentiment as well. I'm not saying that Canon's color reproduction is superior to Nikon's, but a raw Canon file requires less work in post to tweak the colors to my liking. It's simply a matter of personal preference.

I never knew why Canon's sensors rendered colors the way they did, but this assessment is spot on:

A serious reply to the threadstarter would be:

Yes, the Canon cameras are indeed quite different in their basal behavior. Their newer models - since the 50D and forwards - all share a common trait.
What really should be a "red" color filter on the sensor is a lot more like "orange-red" in a Canon camera. This has both pros and cons.

Pros:

• The camera is less sensitive to shifts in light spectral composition - people don't turn as "greenish yellow" under fluorescent lights as with cameras with better hue resolution
• The skintones, which are mainly yellow-orange-red in base hues shift less in luma (you get "smoother" skin color)
• Having less hue resolution in the green - deep red region does also help with having a smooth, natural luma contrast in that range

Cons:

• The camera will have trouble discerning between deep orange and strong reds
• The skintones, which are mainly yellow-orange-red in base hues are more affected by noise at higher ISOs, since the base color correction matrix has to work harder with Canon filters (higher negative coefficients)
• Greenery will show less hue-resolution, and less luma contrast. The camera will have more trouble discerning between two similar (but not identical) green colors.
• As ISOs rise, the effect the higher strength color correction needed to get "normal" color out from the raw file increases chroma noise by about the square of the correction sstrength difference - hence the strong magenta-green chroma noise in a non-noise-reduced Canon high-ISO raw file.

The only thing I'd add to this is that even pre-50D era bodies shared similar characteristics you described. And while I love my 5D3, the old 5DC's files certainly have a unique look to them. Too bad it's such a pain to use!

 

[verysimplejason]

I actually just had a conversation with another photographer a couple of days ago about Canon sensors trailing Nikons. He made the point that (coming from a film background), he felt that the Canon sensors (specifically talking about the 5Dc, 5d3) that he felt they gave a more film like quality in terms of colors and representation as opposed to Nikon (really Sony) sensors which was much more flat. He also made the point that certain things which may contribute to that look is baked into the chip & low level functionality such as the ADC's, initial hardware/software readouts, etc which would be potentially difficult to duplicate through post processing.

Just an interesting observation from someone else. I, personally, haven't looked at enough Nikon vs Canon photos in detail to see a difference, and I'm not coming from a film background.

interesting, then he do not know what he is talking about regarding CFA, profiles, colors etc etc

Sure he does. Every device, be it film or yes, even an electronic sensor or an ADC, has a natural response curve that will affect color reproduction. I don't believe the argument was that it was "impossible" to replicate via post processing...just that it would be difficult to replicate...which is indeed true. If one really wanted to invest the time (and it would be a LOT of time), they could probably create a camera profile that tweaked the the tone curves for each channel to produce color more reminiscent of their favorite film with any camera's RAW...but that would be a LOT of work, and that person would really need to understand film response like the back of their hand. (I love the look of drum scans of 4x5 Velvia 50 slide film...some of the best natural warm color I've ever seen. I've spent a LOT of time trying to replicate it in my own photos taken with Canon DSLR's using curves in Photoshop. I finally stopped bothering after countless hours because the task was nearly impossible, even though I had good reference information regarding Velvia 50's natural response curves and dozens of sample photos to work with.)

There are even members of this forum who will only use certain lines of Canon cameras because they prefer the natural color strait out of the camera better than what they get from a different model, even though it would still be a Canon model.

you are mixing things and missing things, the canon CFA is lighter and the color filter is not so step as others (I hardly dare to write who I mean) and the day light color accuracy is not so good as others. If you make your own color profile with for example qp-card for Canon and NN the results is very similar
A filmlike profile is a filmlike profile both for Canon and NN
And if you want to learn everything about how to write a profile for any cameras, just ask The Suede

Sounds to me like the "measurebeators" and the "pixel peepers" that Ken and Michael are talking about.

 

[Daniel Flather]

Still searching for our personal style, but I'm glad we're using Canon:

I'm not sure, what Nikon/Sony can offer (not able to try the RAWs), but I have a feeling that there are differences between Canon and others' RAWs. Unless someone can argue?

What is that big blue thing in the background, is that boat under a blue tarp, an art piece? What is that??

 

[serendipidy]

Background objects look to me like a giant blue statue head lying on it's side (sorta ancient Greek or Troy looking; did they have the Blue Men Group back then?) and a horse statue. Nightbreath, where was this taken? I like your artistic interpretation and composition.

 

[Aglet]

Some (quite a lot of people - in my experience) do also prefer the original 5D (and 10-40D) color to the newer model colors. The original 5D, and in part also the 1Ds mkIII have a much higher green-yellow-orange band hue resolution, and they also render greenery and nature photography quite differently. Better? Some think so, some don't.

Yes, I keep my old 40D around for portraits and some other shots and even the old 350D has that "certain something" when it comes to the look of the final image that I prefer over the look I get from 60D, 7D and even 5D2.
It's very subtle but it's perceptible.

As for Canon on top again...
A hearty, "Ha!"

 

[nightbreath]

I'm pleased someone liked the style of the photo Tonal range and initial colors from the sensor definitely helped in achieving the needed result. We need to bring the same feeling throughout all the photos from the wedding day, so some of those look slightly overprocessed.

This is a Spanish-Ukrainian wedding that took place in Ukraine. We've met with the couple in this hotel complex called Bartolomeo (in honor of geographical discoveries and Bartolomeo Diaz). The horse and big face statues were added to create the mood of the legend that stands behind the hotel name

 

[nightbreath]

Thank you! There was a moment when my wife figured out that our audience aren't people that look at the photos and say "oh, that's a creative view on things". People we do the photos for are shown on them. So our aim is to appeal to our customers, show their feelings and do that from an angle they didn't look under.

The web-site portfolio is not updated for a while, because we are out of free time now, but I hope in the nearest months we'll be able to show even better results than we have now

P.S. Sorry for off-topic

 

[jrista]

Thank you! There was a moment when my wife figured out that our audience aren't people that look at the photos and say "oh, that's a creative view on things". People we do the photos for are shown on them. So our aim is to appeal to our customers, show their feelings and do that from an angle they didn't look under.

The web-site portfolio is not updated for a while, because we are out of free time now, but I hope in the nearest months we'll be able to show even better results than we have now

P.S. Sorry for off-topic

Sorry for continuing the off-topic...but WOW, that groom is SHORT!!

 

[nightbreath]

Sorry for continuing the off-topic...but WOW, that groom is SHORT!!

He was well-educated, emotional and interesting to shoot. So it's not that important (especially taking into consideration the heels bride was on).

The challenge is to shoot people that are by 30-40% different in size. But there is some kind of comic cuteness in this kind of photos too

 

[nexus]

@bightbreath - I saw your site... just by curiosity what you're shooting with ? 5d III? and may i ask what flashes (light modifiers)?
I like the look of your compositions...

 

[jrista]

Sorry for continuing the off-topic...but WOW, that groom is SHORT!!

He was well-educated, emotional and interesting to shoot. So it's not that important (especially taking into consideration the heels bride was on).

The challenge is to shoot people that are by 30-40% different in size. But there is some kind of comic cuteness in this kind of photos too

Totally agree, it is a great photo! The bride is taking a fairly large step, too, which probably negates a lot more than the couple inches she's getting from her heals. Anyway, that was the primary observation I got on the subjects out of the photo...short groom! From what I see on your web site, your work is excellent. Very creative.

 

[nightbreath]

@bightbreath - I saw your site... just by curiosity what you're shooting with ? 5d III? and may i ask what flashes (light modifiers)?
I like the look of your compositions...

It's 5D Mark II We use all available light sources (natural light, natural reflectors, normal reflectors, flashes on top of the camera, off-camera flashes, umbrellas, soft-boxes) depending on light conditions

 

[verysimplejason]

Sorry for continuing the off-topic...but WOW, that groom is SHORT!!

He was well-educated, emotional and interesting to shoot. So it's not that important (especially taking into consideration the heels bride was on).

The challenge is to shoot people that are by 30-40% different in size. But there is some kind of comic cuteness in this kind of photos too

This cyan cast look looks like went from the dark room to my first film scanner in the beginning 1990, and cyan cast was a very common results.

Ok. Can you show us some very good samples of your work also? It would be really interesting to see your work of art and that of other professionals here.

 

[jrista]

Sorry for continuing the off-topic...but WOW, that groom is SHORT!!

He was well-educated, emotional and interesting to shoot. So it's not that important (especially taking into consideration the heels bride was on).

The challenge is to shoot people that are by 30-40% different in size. But there is some kind of comic cuteness in this kind of photos too

This cyan cast look looks like went from the dark room to my first film scanner in the beginning 1990, and cyan cast was a very common results.

Ok. Can you show us some very good samples of your work also? It would be really interesting to see your work of art and that of other professionals here.

Hmm. This will be interesting. I'm betting on junky comparison images taken with the 5D II, possibly the 7D and a variety of Exmore-inside DSLR's...mostly from Nikon. I'll also predict uberstops (yes, technical term) of unrealistic shadow lifting in unrealistic scenarios. 8)

 

[sandymandy]

I dont like the cyan cast. Looks so unnatural to me.

 

[verysimplejason]

I have told nightbreath that I like his pictures and now when I describe that he's last ones (with blue/cyan cast) looks like a result I got many years ago with the first film scanner - many of you think it was a negative response.
keep things separate please.

No negative response for me. I just want to see your work. Is it bad to see any photos from you? If I ask Neuro for example, he'll readily show it to me. I admit, I'm not a professional and I'm always craving to see professional's work. Maybe I can derive some inspiration from you.

 

[verysimplejason]

I dont like the cyan cast. Looks so unnatural to me.

I agree with you but it really depends on personal style and how do you want to convey your work. I think he did it to emphasize the mood though of course, this is just my opinion.

 

[Fishnose]

Great pictures, Mikael.

Fascinating, isn't it - everybody puked on you and demanded pro images, apparently not expecting any.
And when you produce, they all shut up and dissolve into the woodwork lol....

 

[Loswr]

Fascinating, isn't it - people get bored with trolling comments, responses wane, and it's misinterpreted. :