Canon lack of innovation

[thepancakeman]

I keep reading on hear about Canon's lack of innovation. Apparently not everyone agrees, as they landed at #3 in this article on "The world's most innovative companies":

http://money.msn.com/inside-the-ticker/the-worlds-5-most-innovative-companies

 

[LarryC]

That list is of the top patent filing companies. That's certainly one measure of innovation, but quantity impresses less than quality and "Innovation" should be a measure of a company's ability to translate inventions into products, not how much money they spend on patents.

 

[pdirestajr]

I think Canon balances innovation with trying to run a company that makes a profit. What good is innovation if you are just driving your company into the ground or running in circles with no clear direction.

So much of the internet debate can really be reduced to one thing: Canon's sensor's dynamic range vs the Sony sensors that are in so many cameras now. Take away the sensor debate. What "innovations" are really happening in Nikon land?

 

[Loswr]

Take away the sensor debate. What "innovations" are really happening in Nikon land?

The first waterproof (really waterproof, as in to 15 m depth) interchangeable lens digital camera struck me as pretty innovative. They threw in 2 m shockproof and -10 °C freezeproof as bonuses...

Oops - sort of implied, but still... edited.

 

[Don Haines]

Take away the sensor debate. What "innovations" are really happening in Nikon land?

The first waterproof (really waterproof, as in to 15 m depth) interchangeable lens camera struck me as pretty innovative. They threw in 2 m shockproof and -10 °C freezeproof as bonuses...

25 years ago I got to use a Niknos-5.... it was awesome! A camera so good for the intended purpose that nobody else even bothered trying.... It wasn't freezeproof though... not much need for that in a dive camera...

 

[Richard8971]

I think the thing to try and keep in mind is that Canon manufacturing understandably (among several other Japanese companies) ground to a halt after the Tōhoku earthquake (and subsequent tsunami) in 2011. Several cameras I'm sure were either put on hold or halted altogether.

In a world where rebels got replaced every year and the XXD line got replaced approx every 18 months, the T3i ran for over a year and the 60D ran for almost 3 years. The T3 ran for 3 years before getting replaced. The replacement for the 5D2 was released on "time" in the prosumer FF segment. The 1Ds3 ran for 5 years before it was replaced by the 1DX and that camera was released 5 months after it's announcement.

I think what people are wondering is will the 7D be replaced by the 7D2 or will the 70D take the APS-C crown? Personally I won't believe anything about the 7D2 until I see it announced by Canon and I can actually buy one. Nikon's "flagship" APS-C body is the D7100 and it is in line features wise with the 70D. Nikon does not have a "7D" equivalent and they may feel they don't need one. Canon may follow that thinking.

The 7D is hugely popular and with the V2.0 firmware update it may be Canon's "answer" to a replacement body. I don't think the megapixel race is all that important vs image quality. I would prefer that Canon make a APS-C 14-16MP sensor that is largely noise free vs a higher MP crop sensor. I don't think (based on high ISO noise comparisons) Canon's crop sensors today are hugely better at handling noise than the 7D's, so nothing has really changed there really, just a bunch of 18MP camera bodies that vary a bit from each other. Hopefully Canon will come up with something that will inspire confidence in their DSLR's again.

D

 

[Loswr]

If you received a $2000 bonus every time you successfully filed a patent for your company (e.g. Canon), would that be sufficient motivation to encourage you to create as many patents as possible?

For many people, it certainly would. Lots of corporations have 'pay for performance' policies in place. In pharma, if a medicine makes it to certain milestones (e.g. proof of concept - a positive signal in a Phase IIb trial, it actually makes patients better), members of the team who made major contributions to the development of that medicine are generally rewarded (with cash, stock, or both).

If Canon is rewarding its employees with cash bonuses for filing patents or having them granted (and where is your documentation to confirm that they are doing that?), so what? Explain to us why that's a bad thing? You have a problem with people being rewarded for innovation? It's not like Canon is stacking up blank sheets of paper (or pictures of lenses they think are cameras), mailing them to the US PTO, and being granted patents. The inventions must be demonstrably novel, non-obvious, and useful…and Canon comes up with thousands of such inventions each year.

 

[Eldar]

It should be no surprise to anyone that they pay employees who secure patents. I would be very surprised to find a large high tech company that didn´t and I would also be surprised if they only paid 2k$.

 

[Random Orbits]

It should be no surprise to anyone that they pay employees who secure patents. I would be very surprised to find a large high tech company that didn´t and I would also be surprised if they only paid 2k$.

I wish my company gave out money for patents. Alas, it doesn't...

 

[Sella174]

If Canon is rewarding its employees with cash bonuses for filing patents or having them granted ..., so what? Explain to us why that's a bad thing? You have a problem with people being rewarded for innovation?

If a company rewards employees with cash bonuses for filing patents or having them granted, then all the employee has to do to receive said bonus is to have said patent granted, irrespective of whether or not the invention is of any actual use for the company. This then leads to a waste of time, money and resources on projects that will never show any return on investment for the company.

However, if the company rewards employees with stock options or pays royalties for the use of the patent, then the employees will be motivated to invest their time and energy into projects that has practical and revenue generating value to the company.

So, although I am all for rewarding employees for bringing value to the company, I feel it is very important how they are rewarded.

 

[Eldar]

If Canon is rewarding its employees with cash bonuses for filing patents or having them granted ..., so what? Explain to us why that's a bad thing? You have a problem with people being rewarded for innovation?

If a company rewards employees with cash bonuses for filing patents or having them granted, then all the employee has to do to receive said bonus is to have said patent granted, irrespective of whether or not the invention is of any actual use for the company. This then leads to a waste of time, money and resources on projects that will never show any return on investment for the company.

However, if the company rewards employees with stock options or pays royalties for the use of the patent, then the employees will be motivated to invest their time and energy into projects that has practical and revenue generating value to the company.

So, although I am all for rewarding employees for bringing value to the company, I feel it is very important how they are rewarded.

All larger tech companies have a patent organization, so it is not up to the individual employee alone. It is a very formal process to bring an idea to a successful patent.
In a company like Canon, they build a patent portfolio to use as a muscle against other companies. For this to work, you need a Lot of patents. It is like a terror balance.

 

[Sella174]

... they build a patent portfolio to use as a muscle against other companies. For this to work, you need a Lot of patents. It is like a terror balance.

And eventually all this aggressiveness spills over onto their customer base ...

 

[Eldar]

... they build a patent portfolio to use as a muscle against other companies. For this to work, you need a Lot of patents. It is like a terror balance.

And eventually all this aggressiveness spills over onto their customer base ...

Apple, Samsung, IBM, Canon, Sony, Ericsson, Nikon ... you name them, they are all in the same race.

 

[Sella174]

Apple, Samsung, IBM, Canon, Sony, Ericsson, Nikon ... you name them, they are all in the same race.

True. But does any of them treat you like a real person ... cares for you as a person ... shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person ... ??? Or do they see you as simply part of the many who buys their product because their marketing succeeded ... ???

 

[Loswr]

For anyone keeping score, over the past 10 years (2004-2013) Canon has had 24,656 patents issued by the US PTO.

But does any of them treat you like a real person ... cares for you as a person ... shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person ...

LOL. Show me a major corporation that actually does any of that with regard to their customers. Solvent companies only, please - companies bankrupted by actually putting the customer first need not be listed.

 

[wsmith96]

If you received a $2000 bonus every time you successfully filed a patent for your company (e.g. Canon), would that be sufficient motivation to encourage you to create as many patents as possible?

For many people, it certainly would. Lots of corporations have 'pay for performance' policies in place.

The company that I work for does this as well. We get a small bonus for a "worthy" submission, then another bonus if our patent attorneys and labs folks officially file the patent, then should a patent be granted, you get a 3rd $1-5k USD bonus. I think it's a great incentive personally.

 

[Eldar]

Apple, Samsung, IBM, Canon, Sony, Ericsson, Nikon ... you name them, they are all in the same race.

True. But does any of them treat you like a real person ... cares for you as a person ... shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person ... ??? Or do they see you as simply part of the many who buys their product because their marketing succeeded ... ???

Of course not. They´re only in it for the money ...

 

[Sella174]

Show me a major corporation that actually does any of that with regard to their customers. Solvent companies only, please - bankrupt companies need not be listed.

CNH Industrial ... I can still buy brand new official factory-made parts for my 50-year old FIAT tractor. Why? Because no farmer will buy a tractor that the manufacturer stops supporting once a new model is released.

But it doesn't stop there. The fun continues! CASE amalgamated with New Holland, which was itself the amalgamation of the tractor divisions of Ford and FIAT, to form CNH; and CNH is still supporting all of these ancient tractors that a major part of the company never even manufactured!

Kaizen ... Gumpf! We've been doing it for years and years.

This should also explain why, to us inhabitants of the rural nowhere, why the business practices of a company like [...] seems so ... so foreign ... especially in that the release of a new product automatically ends the support of the replaced product.

 

[sdsr]

Apple, Samsung, IBM, Canon, Sony, Ericsson, Nikon ... you name them, they are all in the same race.

True. But does any of them treat you like a real person ... cares for you as a person ... shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person ... ??? Or do they see you as simply part of the many who buys their product because their marketing succeeded ... ???

All I want them to do is provide appealing products I (might) want to buy, along with attendant good service if needed; and while at the moment I get the impression that the Sony A7R is capable under the right conditions of creating images that are, technically, a bit superior to what any current Canon body is capable of, I think Canon overall meets those criteria very well, probably better than any other camera company. I don't care what their motives are if they meet those criteria (nor do I if they don't).

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person" but if Canon started to send out social workers and therapists to make sure it understood me as a person, I would probably buy some more locks for the front door. Are we supposed to show compassion and understanding to Canon & Co. in return? (Fuji, given the extent to which it appears responsive to customer input by constantly issuing firmware updates, may come the closest to "caring" but unless the XE-1 & lens I bought were defective I have no desire to give them any of my money whether they care about me or not.)

And I rather doubt that any company succeeded for long based simply on marketing.

 

[Sella174]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "shows compassion and understanding towards you as a person" ...

Not everyone can afford the latest cameras from Canon, so they must make do with what they own, whilst still supporting the company through purchases of lenses, flashes, etc. However, in return, Canon gives these, erm, customers on a budget very little in return. Once a product is discontinued, Canon never releases any firmware for it ever again. What you have now is all you'll ever get. Now, please understand that I do not expect Canon to release firmware right now that enables my ancient 30D's to have LiveView functionality; but a firmware update that adds AutoISO would be nice.