Canon lays out their corporate strategy

[David - Sydney]

Avoid dpreview... they have irrational hero worship there.

It is a cesspool of people shouting at each other and not learning anything!

 

[dolina]

It is a cesspool of people shouting at each other and not learning anything!

 

[David - Sydney]

"This year, we expect the global market for interchangeable lens cameras to be around 5.5 to 6 million units and more than 70 of this to be mirrorless cameras."

So they're predicting 30% of ILC sales this year to be DSLRs. That's a big drop, but still higher than I would expect. I find it surprising that people are still buying DSLRs in that sort of quantity, given that Canon is pushing the RF system so heavily.

2022 CIPA shows that China is at 30%, Asia (minus Japan) at 23%, Europe at 41%, Americas at 41%, Japan 18% and rest of world at 17%.
Given the migration to mirrorless, there would be some expectation that the DLSR numbers would decrease though.

What is surprising to me is that developing countries have average or lower DLSR purchases.
Asia/China (including India etc) tend to have less disposable income or small business revenue eg weddings etc but that mirrorless is a lower % compared to Europe which mostly consists of developed countries. Seems counterintuitive to me.

 

[dolina]

What is surprising to me is that developing countries have average or lower DLSR purchases.
Asia/China (including India etc) tend to have less disposable income or small business revenue eg weddings etc but that mirrorless is a lower % compared to Europe which mostly consists of developed countries. Seems counterintuitive to me.

May be related to aging population. Older buyers with a system may prefer the optical view finder than electronic ones. On FM I know one member there that disposed of all his system before he stopped being active on the forum. Would not be surprised there was another one from TH that did the same.

Also 1st time digital camera buyers who are younger and have some discretionary income may opt for a future-facing system that would be good for the next 3-5 decades.

But then again consumer market is pretty much gone due to smartphones...

 

[jaygould]

The graphic shows them continuing to expand the RF lens lineup at the same rate, so we will probably see around seven new RF lenses this year.

How many have been released so far already? Three, right? (135mm f1.8, 24-50mm STM and 55-210 STM).

So hypothetically we have another four lenses coming this year. Any guesses on what they will be?

 

[dolina]

I absolutely understand why some people still favour the optical viewfinders of DSLRs, but I don't really get the logic of staying with DSLRs on the basis of having a few CF cards. Recent DSLRs such as my 5DMkiv had CF and SD - and the latter are crazy-cheap.

I think the percentage of people who already have a DSLR, and choose to get another DSLR as an upgrade is pretty low. Upgraders want better specifications all round, and that means getting a MILC - and Canon have made that transition very easy due to the ability to use EF lenses on RF cameras, without loss of AF performance.

The vast majority of DSLR purchasers these days are probably novices looking for an affordable way into photography, and such folk are typically heavily influenced by advertising and influencers, who are almost exclusively promoting MILCS. So it surprises me that peer pressure from MILC users, and heavy promotion of MILCs by Canon, Nikon and Sony, hasn't led to a more rapid and severe collapse in demand for DSLRs.

I remember watching a year 2021 review of the 2015 5Ds R. The studio-owner reviewer said they preferred keeping what they have and adding more units because it was cheap, it did not change their workflow and none of their clients were asking any changes.

It is essentially buying a replacement light bulb.

From a business point of view it makes sense.

On Oct 2020 the 5Ds & 5Ds R dropped to $1.3k & $1.5k. If I was a business owner using these bodies I'd probably bought a few more as backups to extend their usefulness for greater than 6-12 additional years.

Makes me wish I sold my 5Ds R before Mar 2020 lockdown at a higher than $1.5k price point.

 

[SnowMiku]

I got my 90D a few years ago as an upgrade from the 700D, at the time there was no crop R bodies. I choose the 90D over the RP because I like APS-C for butterflies and birds and I also wanted the most likely last xxD DSLR released. But if the R10/R7 were available at the time I probably would have got one of those with the EF adapter. At this stage I don't have any plans to upgrade to RF because the gear I have does everything I need it to.

 

[mxwphoto]

Here's to hoping for a 35mm f/1.2L this year

If Canon does come with the 35 1.2 they better keep the price in check, no more than 2k. Aside from the 1/3 stop increase in aperture over the 35mm 1.4ii there is little they could to to improve on it that would make an upgrade worth much added cost. Unlike 50 or 85mm, bokeh difference is too slight to matter.

 

[clearlyed]

Not directly relayed to your post, but on the subject of video, I'd like to think that when the R5ii and/or R5s are launched, that they would be more stills-orientated, now that the R5C, as well as the Cine line, exists for video specialists.

For example - video users like to use either a flippy screen, or to mount an external monitor on a rig. Stills users on the other hand tend to prefer a tilting screen, or a Panasonic-style screen that remains on-axis with the lens, but can also be flipped out or reversed when desired.

Of course, all cameras now will be hybrids, so it's impossible to have a pure video or pure stills camera any more, but I do believe that with the exception of events and media professionals, most folk fall into either the stills camp or the video camp, with little overlap.

Interesting thoughts but the idea of ‘of course, all cameras will be hybrid’ i think is wrong. There is definitely a need for the cine that has no photo capabilities. They have to compute the red, Arri and Sony. R5c and c70 is a great start but a refresh of the c line is needed.

 

[David - Sydney]

Interesting thoughts but the idea of ‘of course, all cameras will be hybrid’ i think is wrong. There is definitely a need for the cine that has no photo capabilities. They have to compute the red, Arri and Sony. R5c and c70 is a great start but a refresh of the c line is needed.

Perhaps more accurately is that "all cameras are already hybrid". Live view for DLSRs was already video from the sensor so recording from there was "simple".
I am sure that the R5C can take stills as well
I agree that the dedicated cinema bodies haven't been updated for some time now.

 

[freejay]

The second last paragraph sounds like Canon is going all-in with video features. That makes me hope for a really compelling firmware update for the R5!

 

[Del Paso]

If Canon does come with the 35 1.2 they better keep the price in check, no more than 2k. Aside from the 1/3 stop increase in aperture over the 35mm 1.4ii there is little they could to to improve on it that would make an upgrade worth much added cost. Unlike 50 or 85mm, bokeh difference is too slight to matter.

No chance (unfortunately) the 1,2/35 costs less than $2000.
I rather see it in the $2500 to $3000 price range...

 

[EOS 4 Life]

This

Again it could be both. If I were to check Adorama it may behave similarly.

When you arrive on product category it will show what they want to feature. Then when you reselect the default "Best Seller" then it shows the Rebels.

Seeming Amazon shows the top sellers are Rebels with lens kits at a price point below the cheapest RF body without lens kit then odds are price is driving demand for these DSLRs.

Very few with a CR username would be buying these Rebels for personal use. We do not represent the digital camera market.

I do not think the default is really selected by "Best Seller".
I think it should probably say "Featured" but they decided not to do that since no one would purposely select that.
Manually selecting "Best Seller" brings "#1 Seller" to the top which makes far more sense than the default.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Interesting thoughts but the idea of ‘of course, all cameras will be hybrid’ i think is wrong. There is definitely a need for the cine that has no photo capabilities. They have to compute the red, Arri and Sony. R5c and c70 is a great start but a refresh of the c line is needed.

Well, technically every Cinema EOS and Canon Camcorder currently made can take still photos.

 

[roby17269]

If Canon does come with the 35 1.2 they better keep the price in check, no more than 2k. Aside from the 1/3 stop increase in aperture over the 35mm 1.4ii there is little they could to to improve on it that would make an upgrade worth much added cost. Unlike 50 or 85mm, bokeh difference is too slight to matter.

I have the 2 RF 1.2's and I had their EF predecessors. I wouldn't say the bokeh is particularly better, but the new lenses are sharper, faster and nearer focusing and those traits made the upgrade worthy to me. I know that the EF 35mm f/1.4 II is a much more modern lens than the EF 50mm and 85mm f/1.2, but I wouldn't be surprised if the differences are more than the bare 1/3 stop.

In any case if it will be a 1.2 I assume it will cost something between 3K and 2K. I would love for it to be below 2K but I wouldn't expect that given current trends and market.

 

[entoman]

2022 CIPA shows that China is at 30%, Asia (minus Japan) at 23%, Europe at 41%, Americas at 41%, Japan 18% and rest of world at 17%.
Given the migration to mirrorless, there would be some expectation that the DLSR numbers would decrease though.

What is surprising to me is that developing countries have average or lower DLSR purchases.
Asia/China (including India etc) tend to have less disposable income or small business revenue eg weddings etc but that mirrorless is a lower % compared to Europe which mostly consists of developed countries. Seems counterintuitive to me.

My guess is that the average purchaser of new cameras in Europe and North America is middle-aged, and more likely to buy traditional gear, i.e. DSLRs, hence the 41%.

I think buyers in Asia tend to be a lot younger, more tech-savvy and more fashion-conscious, which might explain why they avoid DSLRs and favour modern MILCs.

In Japan, people change cameras very frequently (stores there are crammed full of absolutely mint used cameras), and also tend to be young buyers, so it doesn't surprise me that only 18% of them (probably older people) buy DSLRs.

It's harder to comment on the "rest of world", but incomes are rising rapidly in countries like Brazil, and again I'd expect most buyers to be younger, as (from my observations on frequent visits to Brazil) that is where the wealth is - on a roadside in Rio state a few weeks ago I came across a "bikers meet" and calculated that there was in excess of 4 million dollars worth of brand new sports motorcycles gathered there for a weekend ride.

 

[entoman]

I got my 90D a few years ago as an upgrade from the 700D, at the time there was no crop R bodies. I choose the 90D over the RP because I like APS-C for butterflies and birds and I also wanted the most likely last xxD DSLR released. But if the R10/R7 were available at the time I probably would have got one of those with the EF adapter. At this stage I don't have any plans to upgrade to RF because the gear I have does everything I need it to.

The 90D is a fine camera. For butterflies and birds you don't really need the AF features and fast fps of MILCs, unless you're shooting BIF.

 

[SteveC]

Avoid dpreview... they have irrational hero worship there.

Since it's not me they are worshiping, I agree.



[edit: Full disclosure: I've never been there...this comment is completely facetious.]

 

[entoman]

My gosh people actually argue and discuss this? Who really cares

It's raining.
It's cold.
It's windy.
It's a slow day.
... but if you're bored, you don't have to stay.

 

[clearlyed]

Well, technically every Cinema EOS and Canon Camcorder currently made can take still photos.

I have to say I have never tried taking a photo on a the C500. if it is possible it is hing away somewhere. Also can you imagine Turing up for a photoshoot with a C500 in your hand hahahaha. Or if you are doing a studio shoot with strobes and you have no way of triggering them. Im not entirely are ALL canons cameras are hybrid.