Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

[David - Sydney]

A dozen pages in and no one has mentioned that the R5c should be able to provide 33mp @ 60fps frame grabs. This may offset the lack of IBIS from a stills perspective. Is it correct that AF is not working at 8k60 and you will need external power supply/power bank for lens control poweer (IS/aperture etc)

It is clear that Craig removed the block on "cripple" in the forums

 

[tomislavmoze]

I regularly use the original R as a second camera and the photos it takes are sharp as sharp can be. I shot a nonstop 3-day music festival on the R5 and lent the R to my second shooter, who was shooting with a pro camera for the first time. Comparing the files from the R5 with IBIS to the R's with no IBIS, there is no difference in terms of sharpness (resolution is obviously a different story). And I guarantee that any photo that would have been shot below 1/400th would have been blurry because of motion in front of the lens - not behind it.

IBIS is not a useless feature, but it's absolutely trivial for me personally. In the 73,000 photos I took last year, it only made a lick of difference on the two shoots I previously mentioned.

This is a bit of a sidebar however. The point to take away is that a hybrid is, by definition, neither fully one thing or the other. If you put orange juice and apple juice in a cup you're not getting 100% of either. You're getting a ratio between the two. There will be compromises, and if it wasn't IBIS it would have been something else. Look at any hybrid anything on the market and you'll find this to be true.

I think the bottom line is that if you don't want a compromise camera, you don't want a hybrid camera. There's plenty lacking on the cinema side too, if I want to hold it to pure cinema camera standards. But I don't, because there is zero expectation for this camera to be a fully fledged cinema camera.

What the R5C is is a remarkable hybrid. It appears that many people here don't want a hybrid despite saying they do.

It is not the same using a 30 mpx camera and using 45mpx camera that is the point, the why I wrote use the R5 without IS. Larger sensors benefit from having an ibis or any type of stabilization. Especially if you crop or print large print where the micro jitters are visible.
People here don't understand what hybrid shooting means for a lot of people.
This camera is a great solution but as a hybrid system R3 is far superior and to me the only true hybrid solution from canon but I was hoping for something like R3 in a smaller form factor. Like many of my colleagues where.

 

[tomislavmoze]

A free flying sensor can't be cooled as efficiently. Not at these data rates.
Among other reservations. I am happy for the chance to buy into a camera without IBIS.

Well Sony managed to pull it in a smaller body without a ventilation system in the A1 so it is obvious that is possible.

 

[tomislavmoze]

So I own 2 1dc's , 1dxmkiii, r5, 5dsr and a c300mkiii the 1dc's I use mostly for moto photo work as they just work, they worked better than the 1dxmkii that I got rid of and I will use them for long form interviews and things of that nature. The 1dxmkiii I put on a gimbal from time to time and well its nice but it is cumbersome and only in crop mode cause the full frame is jello heaven I swear bill cosby is in my camera, the r5 which I use on cooler days or if there is rain cause well they run hot and I use for certain instances when I know it will have cooled down enough, the Ibis and DPAFv2 are untouchable for very specific moments, sometimes I like to shoot 50 1.2 on video as it really pulls you in and on the 4k 24hq mode with 50 1.2 you want (and need ) ibis and hot damn it looks amazing. gimbals fail and freak out at times, that r5 ibis does not, people forget every extra thing you attach to a camera is an additional point of failure and when you are running around you don't always want external recorder or a gimbal. When you work at the AMA Motocross events they are hot and it is Sonys and Panasonic's with a few reds everywhere when it is video being captured, this last year I legit ran into one other guy doing video with the r5 and he had three to use for when one would overheat, People that do work like that don't want a gimbal they want unlimited 4k with ibis in a non -cinema camera form factor, I was hopping to have this r5c replace a few of these bodies and just be on one and pair it up with my c300 for corporate and documentary work that I do but now I'm just like man I got first world problems to the max. Canon legit became obsessed with this 8k resolution accomplishment and nothing else. I do news work as well and mostly riot coverage and I want to bring the r5 but it cannot be trusted when you are filming a police station burning, Ibis and a fan allow you to get things others cannot. They allow you to use a 135 f2 and have no shakes, for all the work I and many people do in journalism they want 4k master so they can deliver in 2k. No one really wants 8k, I mean we do but the data rates are insane, Arri has proven that amazing 4k is hard to beat. Did I pre order this camera yes, did i cancel the pre order after reading about the r5Cripple of the video autofocus and the removal of ibis yes I did, Do I want to buy a sony? nope, but I might. So after all that writing that most didn't read I hope people stop blanket statements on what they think others want or what would best help them do their jobs or hobbies, at the end of the day we are all humans and many of us on this forum want to create and see the world and instead of always being know it alls and assholes maybe we could take a moment and think maybe ill try to help this person or build them up instead of tearing them down

Can I ask you why didn't you go for the R3?
Asking cause it seams I will have to go with it having the same workflow like you do.
I own r5 and R6 and started to use R6 more for the video since the cool down is much faster and it actually cools down while shooting photos oppose to R5 which accumulate heat in a photo mode.
Now with r5c not fitting my needs I will have to go for the R3 which I will probably have to wait till March. But I Don't see a lot of people considering R3 here for the hybrid work flow, is there any reason for that, beside the price and the waiting time to get one?

 

[Rofocale]

Anyone know if the dynamic range in the video is the same as it would be on the R5? I absolutely love the image I get from my C70, and it looks much nicer than that from my R5, but it would be nice to swap out the C70 for something that combines the best parts of each. Especially as the C70 has zero stills capability. Also, the C70 on a DJI Ronin RS2 is an arse to setup, a lighter load would work for me. But the colors it gets…

 

[tomislavmoze]

Anyone know if the dynamic range in the video is the same as it would be on the R5? I absolutely love the image I get from my C70, and it looks much nicer than that from my R5, but it would be nice to swap out the C70 for something that combines the best parts of each. Especially as the C70 has zero stills capability. Also, the C70 on a DJI Ronin RS2 is an arse to setup, a lighter load would work for me. But the colors it gets…

Since C70 is a DGO sensor it is superior regarding dynamic range to the sensor R5 and R5c share. If R5 was not good regarding colours and DR the R5c will probably also not be good. The advantage regarding image quality of the R5C compared to the R5 is dual ISO, less noise and ability to shot more codecs. But if you tried RAW on the R5 and that was not good enough compared to c70 I presume the R5c will be the same.

 

[Rofocale]

Since C70 is a DGO sensor it is superior regarding dynamic range to the sensor R5 and R5c share. If R5 was not good regarding colours and DR the R5c will probably also not be good. The advantage regarding image quality of the R5C compared to the R5 is dual ISO, less noise and ability to shot more codecs. But if you tried RAW on the R5 and that was not good enough compared to c70 I presume the R5c will be the same.

That’s a fantastic answer, many thanks! Learning as I go. And glad that I’d be better off not shifting funds to buy a new body.

 

[TravelerNick]

Wow - thats all I can say at this point.
I was so looking forward to this camera, and everything in the video was going great - until, of course, he started saying "the still imaging features and operation of the EOS R5C are nearly identical".. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop after that. I had long predicted that IBIS would likely not make it in this camera, due to Canon's past practices of subtracting features in order to differentiate their product line. And of course, its missing. And Ill say it now - without IBIS, this camera is junk.

For me, this is really depressing. I'm still using my 5D Mark III from 10 years ago - not because I can't afford to buy another camera - but because I haven't found a camera that Canon has yet made that checks off all the boxes I need. All I've been waiting for since the beginning is a proper hybrid - a photo-video shooting product. Without IBIS, this product simply can't compete in the photography realm.

And when Canon inconsistently applies IBIS to their products, it also creates overall inconsistency with product expectations. For instance, Sony has IBIS in all of their pro models, including their video-oriented a7S III (!). This means that when you stick on a lens between an a7S, an a7R, an a7, an a9 or an a1, you know how the lens and body will give you a stabilized image, since all of these models have in-body stabilization. With Canon, there's no such consistency - you still have the EOS R and RP models without in-body stabilization, the R5/R6/R3 with stabilization, and now the R5C without - its really inconsistent, and it makes this complicated for the end user. For instance, should I buy the 24-70 f2.8 lens with in-lens stabilization, or the 28-70 f2 without? On a R3/R5/R6, this doesn't matter since the in-body stabilization is great and both lenses will perform great. But now on a R5C, suddenly that in-lens stabilization is a requirement.

Does the FX6 have IBIS?

It's not very hard to make a list of features missing from Sony cameras. Sony just seems to get a pass.

DCI?
Internal raw?

The A1 is the most expensive camera in that segment.

Like a lot of things the question to ask is does it fit your needs? ND filters are more important if you're in a run and gun type situation with changing light. If that is what you face you'll want them. But that's not everybody.

 

[Quirkz]

So after all that writing that most didn't read

I read it all, thank you for the answer.

But next time splitting it in to paragraphs would really help making it clearer and easier for me It's not the length of the reply, just difficult to read the single long paragraph.

 

[TravelerNick]

Well Sony managed to pull it in a smaller body without a ventilation system in the A1 so it is obvious that is possible.

Does it do 60FPS? Does it do raw internally? Does it do DCI? You know there are reports it overheats ?

 

[neuroanatomist]

I wish. See my thread about R3 lockups, which I am going to update tonight. I had two lockups tonight using a SanDisk Extreme CF Express 256 gb card.

What makes you believe the card(s) are the cause of the lockups? You stated they occurred with other card brands, too.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Shouldn't it have an 1080/240p option, if it is a video centric camera?

 

[peters]

11th generation Intel CPUs (Tiger Lake) have much better support for h.265/HEVC

They actually support hardware decoding up to 8K 12bit 444 and encoding up to 8k 10bit 444

Intel HW media features

Supported Encoding and Decoding Output Formats and Max Resolution

Oh nice, this looks promising!!!

 

[TravelerNick]

Oh nice, this looks promising!!!

Even 10th gen laptop media decoders handled 10 bit 4.2.2 HEVC. The problem is you need something like Resolve that supports the hardware.

 

[peters]

The crippled specs maybe the result of the low price?
I have worked in a design team before though it was not a camera design. The marketing team is the one giving us the specs and the target cost. After we evaluated the design, we often get back to marketing team and give them choice like "increase the target cost or remove these features". And sometimes we ask to extend the deadline or remove this feature.

"Crippled specs" :-D
Like its only a 45mp, 20fps high end photocamera AND a 8k60 RAW, 4k120 (downsampled from 8k!!!) cinema camera in a 690g compact body for under 5000 USD :-D :-D :-D Super crippled.
All the competion is offeringmuuuuuuuuuuch better cameras with better specs for much lower prices :-D

 

[peters]

Agreed. Acceptable tradeoff for me. A dedicated menu designed and optimized for video is a plus, instead of trying to make it fit into the standard menu system. In fact, I do get confused by the menu being used for both video and photo on all other Canon bodies, because it just hides and adds features depending on the mode. I Often find myself wondering where something went, and remember "oh I have to switch to photo/video to get said feature." Plus I think firmware updates will probably bring the boot up time down.

I am right know pretty sure, that the slow switch time, was because of the sensor cleanup.
He showed the general boot time from "off" to photo oder video, and it was super fast, way under one second. Just like the R5.
I guess it was only the sensor cleanup, while turning off, that took so long.

On a job where I need to switch often and quick, I could just deactivate this feature and probably get this fast switch time. Although its rarely ever the case, that I need this fast switching.

 

[bbasiaga]

Yup...that was me on the IBIS thing.

Until that blurb, I was thinking "ok, aside from a bit extra bulk and maybe a bit of weight gain...why would I take a R5 over a R5C?

Why not keep IBIS functionality in the camera I wonder...I mean, IBIS can be turned off you know?

cayenne

After watching a lot of the video crowd on YouTube, it seems that IBIS is a liability for them, causing weird artifacts when you want the camera to move, which videographers often do. Also, it seem technologically speaking they may have needed to fix the heat sync to the sensor which would make IBIS hard. I'm hoping we get a teardown sometime to show if that is the case, and what the weather sealing looks like on the fan system.

Engineering is full of tradeoffs. Since this is video focused, they take IBIS out as that crowd will not use it often anyway. It is a hit to stills use, but really 2 stops of IBIS isn't much to lose (that's about what you get extra above the lens IS), and until the R5 came out none of the previous cameras had IBIS anyway. So its not like you CANT take photos without it.

I think you look at these two cameras, and if you say "i shoot a lot of video but do some photography as well" the choice is clear. Similarly, if you say "I shoot a lot of stills, but do take some video work" the choice is also clear. Neither is one camera to rule them all.

Brian

 

[reef58]

So I own 2 1dc's , 1dxmkiii, r5, 5dsr and a c300mkiii the 1dc's I use mostly for moto photo work as they just work, they worked better than the 1dxmkii that I got rid of and I will use them for long form interviews and things of that nature. The 1dxmkiii I put on a gimbal from time to time and well its nice but it is cumbersome and only in crop mode cause the full frame is jello heaven I swear bill cosby is in my camera, the r5 which I use on cooler days or if there is rain cause well they run hot and I use for certain instances when I know it will have cooled down enough, the Ibis and DPAFv2 are untouchable for very specific moments, sometimes I like to shoot 50 1.2 on video as it really pulls you in and on the 4k 24hq mode with 50 1.2 you want (and need ) ibis and hot damn it looks amazing. gimbals fail and freak out at times, that r5 ibis does not, people forget every extra thing you attach to a camera is an additional point of failure and when you are running around you don't always want external recorder or a gimbal. When you work at the AMA Motocross events they are hot and it is Sonys and Panasonic's with a few reds everywhere when it is video being captured, this last year I legit ran into one other guy doing video with the r5 and he had three to use for when one would overheat, People that do work like that don't want a gimbal they want unlimited 4k with ibis in a non -cinema camera form factor, I was hopping to have this r5c replace a few of these bodies and just be on one and pair it up with my c300 for corporate and documentary work that I do but now I'm just like man I got first world problems to the max. Canon legit became obsessed with this 8k resolution accomplishment and nothing else. I do news work as well and mostly riot coverage and I want to bring the r5 but it cannot be trusted when you are filming a police station burning, Ibis and a fan allow you to get things others cannot. They allow you to use a 135 f2 and have no shakes, for all the work I and many people do in journalism they want 4k master so they can deliver in 2k. No one really wants 8k, I mean we do but the data rates are insane, Arri has proven that amazing 4k is hard to beat. Did I pre order this camera yes, did i cancel the pre order after reading about the r5Cripple of the video autofocus and the removal of ibis yes I did, Do I want to buy a sony? nope, but I might. So after all that writing that most didn't read I hope people stop blanket statements on what they think others want or what would best help them do their jobs or hobbies, at the end of the day we are all humans and many of us on this forum want to create and see the world and instead of always being know it alls and assholes maybe we could take a moment and think maybe ill try to help this person or build them up instead of tearing them down

Have you tired the electronic IS? I hear it works pretty well but there is a crop. I am certainly no IBIS/EIS guru. I mostly do tripod work.

 

[reef58]

As someone who's owned a lot of Canon's cinema line, not a fan of the dual OS/menu implementation. The cinema OS is just much slower and less snappy than the photo OS. But the biggest let down is that it doesn't have custom video modes (C1, C2, C3), which will make it much slower to quickly switch multiple settings (frame rate, resolution, crop, etc). On the R5 go from 4k 120 fps 1/250 shutter H265 Clog3 to 1080p 23fps 1/50 S35 crop standard pic profile with 2 button clicks. With the R5c that'll be 10-20 clicks in a menu.

I'm glad Canon made this camera, but just a lot of odd decisions.

That is a good point, but the cinema camera have lots of programable buttons for one tough high frame rate ect.

 

[ag25]

After reading everything I could find about the R5c yesterday I had to weigh in with some thoughts: