Canon officially announces the EOS 90D and EOS M6 Mark II

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,313
502
Youtube put 4k into their player 5 years ago...Canon is only just now adding it to their prosumer cameras. Lets not pretend the Canon model is being really forward looking on video.
I recall on release of the 5D4, their market research showed that people using a DSLR for video do so in short bursts to supplement their stills and that people serious about video buy a video camera.
Now it seems to me that Canon are pretty smart on their market research so maybe they know more than the forum-dwelling Peter Jackson/Stalney Kubrik wannabes.

There's definitely a movement of people that want 60p as the standard frame rate...and a few film makers delivering in 48p or shooting in higher frame rates...in part driven by video gaming, etc. But a screen that refrehses at 60hz or 120hz will be able to handle 24p just fine.
Yep, after Peter Jackson shot The Hobbit at 48p, 24p will be so passe in 2020.
 
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Aussie shooter

www.facebook.com/BrettGuyPhotography/
Dec 6, 2016
889
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Youtube put 4k into their player 5 years ago...Canon is only just now adding it to their prosumer cameras. Lets not pretend the Canon model is being really forward looking on video.

There's definitely a movement of people that want 60p as the standard frame rate...and a few film makers delivering in 48p or shooting in higher frame rates...in part driven by video gaming, etc. But a screen that refrehses at 60hz or 120hz will be able to handle 24p just fine.

No idea what the actual reason will end up being, but its certainly not to get ahead of the curve.
Time will tell but my argument has the most logic(maybe). Perhaps not the canon getting ahead of the curve bit, but certainly the illogical 'imperial' rate of 24p. Metric is the way of the future.
 

Aussie shooter

www.facebook.com/BrettGuyPhotography/
Dec 6, 2016
889
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Sucky optical viewfinder. Wow. Just wow. I really want to know (maybe not) what it's like in some people's heads.
No headache. I haven't tried the a7r4 or Panasonic yet but those two aside I still have not looked through an evf for more than 60seconds without it feeling awful-physically
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,028
1,379
Because the difference in look between 24p and 30p is noticeable, and our eyes have largely been trained to see 24p as "film" or "professional" and 30p as "video".
People are smarter than that. People are smart enough to recognize talk shows just by their content. No amount of choppy panning will turn a vlogger's talking head into a movie hero.

Especially when watched on a tiny screen (or in a tiny Youtube window) on a 60fps display.

Who are they trying to fool? Themselves?

From a workflow perspective, losing 24p is kind of a big deal since it is standard.
For vlogging?

It'd be like Canon leaving off a major photo feature (think AI-Servo or dropping M exposure and only giving Tv and Av)...and then having people tell you you should buy a 1DX to use it if its so important to you.
I have no problem with Canon dropping M exposure mode on their consumer camcorders (if they even have that in the first place). Dropping this mode on a photo camera would be unwise.

For the same reason that someone spends a small fortune on a f/1.2 lens or a MFDB. Or in the case of vloggers an expensive gimbal or microphone. Quality. They want the look. And while it's a subtle difference between 30p and 24p it is a noticeable difference.

So why not just give them what they want since it's a firmware change?
For separate money, maybe.

Canon does not sell a f/1.2 as a kit lens. Mainly because it costs a small fortune, but also because for most buyers of kits, using such a lens is a recipe for disaster.
 

slclick

Forum Dweller
Dec 17, 2013
4,241
2,282
No headache. I haven't tried the a7r4 or Panasonic yet but those two aside I still have not looked through an evf for more than 60seconds without it feeling awful-physically
Sorry if that was a confusing link (non link) some nitwit made a comment about Canons sucky optical VF.
 
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slclick

Forum Dweller
Dec 17, 2013
4,241
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I already provided a dpreview link on the previous page
I didn't see that quote nor do I think the caption on the link meant it was a replacement but when you add the EVF optional accessory it CAN replace the M5. You're reading into things and spreading a rumor.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,649
2,181
Because Canon doesn't communicate any reason for it, maybe? If they leave it to the people to interpret what their actions mean, it should not come as a surprise that there is a wide variety of interpretations. After all, one has to make assumptions in the absence of communication from Canon to form an opinion. And those are based on the people's subjective impressions and experiences.
Canon ILCs before the EOS R have an interval timer (7DII, 5DIV, 5Ds). The R doesn’t have it, the RP does. Should Canon communicate a reason for that? Why? Many Canon cameras, including powershots, had in camera HDR prior to the release of the 1DX, which does not offer that feature. Should Canon offer an explanation for that? Why?

It comes as no surprise that people offer a variety of interpretations for these decisions. What surprises me is that people seem to think their interpretations actually matter. They don’t.

If something is taken for granted because it's been present ever since it first arrived, taking it away for no apparent reason, do you really find it hard to see why it can be upsetting?
It’s not hard to see why people are upset. People get upset about things all the time. It’s raining. The person driving in front of me is going slow and I’m in a hurry. I’m late for class because a cow is giving birth on the bike path (you may laugh, but that actually happened to me in grad school).

So yes, people are upset. So what? “So they don’t buy Canon,” you say. Fine. But if you’ve been on this forum for a while, you’ve seen that people have been upset with Canon for years. They (according to them) stopped buying Canon. Meanwhile, Canon gained market share (slightly, but the point is they didn’t lose it). Which brings us back to, people are upset...so what?
 

hoodlum

EOS 90D
Jul 11, 2012
152
28
www.flickr.com
I didn't see that quote nor do I think the caption on the link meant it was a replacement but when you add the EVF optional accessory it CAN replace the M5. You're reading into things and spreading a rumor.
The quote was placed right in the comments by the editor at Dpreview. The link I provided brought you directly to the quote in question.
 
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privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,204
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Canon know me so well. I had my mind set on the M5 MkII but its looking less and less like that will ever materialize, however the M6 MkII kit for $1099 includes the 'optional' viewfinder and I'm thinking maybe the ability to make the camera smaller is more of a benefit than being able to use the viewfinder and a flash at the same time, personally I rarely use flash with the M5 now but was thinking if the MkII could do the full Ai bit in the 470EX Ai it would make a fantastic event combination.

Ah decisions decisions...
 

Randywayne

EOS M50
Oct 9, 2018
28
26
Yep, after Peter Jackson shot The Hobbit at 48p, 24p will be so passe in 2020.
I don't recall a whole lot of people actually being happy with Peter Jackson choosing to shoot The Hobbit movies at 48p. In fact if you saw any of them in a theater that supported that format it looked like you were watching an early 80's episode of Doctor Who on the BBC.
 

CanonFanBoy

Real men single speed.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,231
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Irving, Texas
Canon ILCs before the EOS R have an interval timer (7DII, 5DIV, 5Ds). The R doesn’t have it, the RP does. Should Canon communicate a reason for that? Why? Many Canon cameras, including powershots, had in camera HDR prior to the release of the 1DX, which does not offer that feature. Should Canon offer an explanation for that? Why?

It comes as no surprise that people offer a variety of interpretations for these decisions. What surprises me is that people seem to think their interpretations actually matter. They don’t.


It’s not hard to see why people are upset. People get upset about things all the time. It’s raining. The person driving in front of me is going slow and I’m in a hurry. I’m late for class because a cow is giving birth on the bike path (you may laugh, but that actually happened to me in grad school).

So yes, people are upset. So what? “So they don’t buy Canon,” you say. Fine. But if you’ve been on this forum for a while, you’ve seen that people have been upset with Canon for years. They (according to them) stopped buying Canon. Meanwhile, Canon gained market share (slightly, but the point is they didn’t lose it). Which brings us back to, people are upset...so what?
Come on. We all know the dog ate your homework. ;)
 
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CanonFanBoy

Real men single speed.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,231
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Irving, Texas
I'm wondering what the heck is up at Canon HQ. I'm studying for my Brazilian wax/sugaring classes and really need 240fps so that the V-loggers can produce acceptable tutorial content. Also, 8k. The wife has gone to bed. Time to hit the books YouTube. ;)
 

Tangent

EOS 90D
Nov 13, 2015
123
65
The EOS M6 Mark II is a replacement for both the EOS M5 and EOS M6.
My take on this: The M6 mkII replaces both for now. It seemed odd when the first two came out that the only differentiator was the EVF. I think it makes sense to widen that gap. So I think the M5 mkII will come next year, hopefully with a real step up, new sensor tech, flip-out LCD monitor, headphone jack, very slightly bigger form factor, better EVF than the add-on -- and maybe even 24p and an intervalometer? Just speculatin'
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,649
2,181
My take on this: The M6 mkII replaces both for now. It seemed odd when the first two came out that the only differentiator was the EVF. I think it makes sense to widen that gap. So I think the M5 mkII will come next year, hopefully with a real step up, new sensor tech, flip-out LCD monitor, headphone jack, very slightly bigger form factor, better EVF than the add-on -- and maybe even 24p and an intervalometer? Just speculatin'
Or maybe M5 / M6 was an experiment – let the market decide which was preferred. Develop only that line going forward.
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,927
Canada
I have been telling myself for a long time that once an M series camera got to the point where it had all the features that I wanted, that I would get one.

This looks like the time to jump in.
 

OneSnark

Canon Fanboy
Aug 20, 2019
49
22
I am very keen to hear reports about the Image quality when they come out
Nothing is amusing me more than the forums over at a certain famous website that specializes in digital-photography reviews.

In a 90D post, the posters over there are gleefully picking apart a series of 90D sample images that were posted online.
In a M6 review article, the editors were praising the image quality of the M6 samples.

*How much different can these images really be*

Time will tell if the 90D/M6 is truly worthy successors to the current cameras.
Honestly, I don't think we will know the truth for awhile. All the current comments are either uninformed, hopelessly biased, or both.
I can wait. . . .I won't even be able to get software to process the RAW images from the new cameras for a bit. That's a more pressing problem.

- - - Frankly looking for an 80D "upgrade", so I don't care if it lacks 7DII features.
- - - Most interested in DR improvement. Don't need improved resolution.
- - - I would like improved AF, but frankly not super critical for me. AF through the mirror box is great in my mind. The dual-pixel AF on the current cameras does, however, need much improvement. Too slow.

- - - The M6 doesn't interest me, because I personally am not excited about buying a whole new collection of mediocre lenses.

I'm good with the prices being discussed. If the quality is there.
 

TrubadorPhotography

Canon EOS 90D
Aug 8, 2019
14
21
Ventura, CA
www.flickr.com
The 7DmkII doesn't have any kind of 4k mode. And the 5DmkIV have 4k at 24fps.
I stand corrected on that. Saw the 24p but wasn’t for 4K. Which does back up my point about 4K 24p is really best suited for FF cameras. True, it’s available on the SL3 and M50. But I think Canon is deciding that it’s best to reserve high quality 4K for high-end or video-centric cameras.