Canon R - How bad is EFCS rolling shutter?

[stillviking]

R7 shutter shock is today a known problem of Canon R7, probably soon firmware could try to fix it.

But for Canon R? I never heard before to be honest. It looks impossible to me with EFCS. Any experience @AlanF?

 

[AlanF]

R7 shutter shock is today a known problem of Canon R7, probably soon firmware could try to fix it.

But for Canon R? I never heard before to be honest. It looks impossible to me with EFCS. Any experience @AlanF?

I've never handled an R so don't know about it, but @neuroanatomist had one so he knows. I doubt if firmware could remove the phenomenon from the R7, it's a mechanical interaction between the shutter and the particular lens.

 

[koenkooi]

R7 shutter shock is today a known problem of Canon R7, probably soon firmware could try to fix it.

But for Canon R? I never heard before to be honest. It looks impossible to me with EFCS. Any experience @AlanF?

I’ve only had shutter shock on the R in MS mode, EFCS bursts with an IS lens didn’t show it for me.

 

[stillviking]

@AlanF I have heard they will slow the burst speed to try to not have so much shutter shock. Don't know if true.
@koenkooi thanks! In which speeds/situations did you find shutter shock with R? Below 1/200?

 

[koenkooi]

@AlanF I have heard they will slow the burst speed to try to not have so much shutter shock. Don't know if true.
@koenkooi thanks! In which speeds/situations did you find shutter shock with R? Below 1/200?

Between 1/60s and 1/200s, which seems to be universal with Canon IS systems, be it in-lens or in-body.

 

[stillviking]

@koenkooi surprised not below 1/60s??

 

[AlanF]

@koenkooi surprised not below 1/60s??

It depends how long the shock goes on for relative to the time of the shot. At very high shutter speeds, the shot is over before vibration has any effect. At some intermediate speeds, the vibration happens within the shot and is present for long enough to have an effect. At lower speeds, the vibration occurs over a small fraction of the time of the shot and is swamped by the longer time of the vibration-free element.

 

[stillviking]

It depends how long the shock goes on for relative to the time of the shot. At very high shutter speeds, the shot is over before vibration has any effect. At some intermediate speeds, the vibration happens within the shot and is present for long enough to have an effect. At lower speeds, the vibration occurs over a small fraction of the time of the shot and is swamped by the longer time of the vibration-free element.

That's gold! I also think I find when I use more "zoom" (exemple: 200mm) the shutter feels the shutter shock with lower velocities. My 200mm 1/40 photos are always blurry.

 

[koenkooi]

@koenkooi surprised not below 1/60s??

My theory is that between 1/60s and 1/160s the shuttershock creates a resonance in the IS algorithms. The owners of the EF600L III complained loudly an publicly enough to get a lens firmware that lessens the effect, but all other lenses (and bodies!) still seem to be affected.

 

[stillviking]

What if IS is off??

 

[AlanF]

What if IS is off??

Going back to my results with the 5Div in 2017 with the 400mm DO II, it seemed like the shock was due to IS - turning off IS gave random errors in AF whereas with IS on there was top to bottom shake. The 100-400mm II didn't have a problem.

 

[stillviking]

I'm a little confused now: Canon R in MS and with IS off lens, which speeds should we expect shutter shock and use EFCS?

 

[stillviking]

I did a small test today (MS vs EFCS - Silent LV Shooting Mode 1):

40mm - 1/100 - No shutter shock
50mm - 1/125 - No shutter shock

I will continue to test with more extreme settings and keep list updated.

 

[stillviking]

40mm - 1/100 - No shutter shock
50mm - 1/125 - No shutter shock
35mm - 1/60 - No shutter shock
70mm - 1/80 - No shutter shock
70mm - 1/50 - Veryyyy little shutter shock, close to zero.

Resume: I would say EFCS can be better than MS if you use speeds below 1/focal length. It makes no sense to use above it (problems with bokeh and artificial light banding).

 

[koenkooi]

[...] Resume: I would say EFCS can be better than MS if you use speeds below 1/focal length. It makes no sense to use above it (problems with bokeh and artificial light banding).

Only on f/1.8 or wider lenses. EFCS has no light banding, unless you're using flashes outside the sync range without HSS enabled.

 

[stillviking]

The drawback of using EFCS is that it can introduce some banding under flickering artificial light sources, although it's not usually as bad as when using the standard electronic shutter. In addition, the bokeh can become a little busy or "nervous" when fast shutter speeds are used. Finally, because the process still uses the mechanical second curtain, the fps remains the same as when using the mechanical shutter.
Source: Canon (https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/electronic-vs-mechanical-shutter/)

 

[neuroanatomist]

The drawback of using EFCS is that it can introduce some banding under flickering artificial light sources, although it's not usually as bad as when using the standard electronic shutter. In addition, the bokeh can become a little busy or "nervous" when fast shutter speeds are used. Finally, because the process still uses the mechanical second curtain, the fps remains the same as when using the mechanical shutter.
Source: Canon (https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/electronic-vs-mechanical-shutter/)

Nice article, thanks for the link.

In that context, worth noting that on some cameras like the R8, full mechanical shutter is not an option – it's either EFCS or full electronic. Personally, I shoot only in EFCS with my R8 (so I get the full 14-bit RAW file).