Canon releases their full 2020 financials, beat expectations

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
I’ve been using Canon ever since I was sent to Photokina back in 1971, I think it was, when I saw the new Canon F1 system, and bough two systems for the company. I bought my own shortly afterwards.

i’ve never moved to anything else, despite a number of great cameras from Nikon. Why should I have? The differences in IQ hasn’t mattered for 4 color printing in more than a few years. That’s where most Pro work ends up.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
181
140
Orewa , New Zealand
I wonder how this outlook will be affected by the new Sony A1? Assuming that Canon will have the “R1” out later this year, with the expected rise in sales from that, they will have a real competitor to it with reviews out, and if they’re really good, that could suppress sales of Canon’s new camera.
Well as the performance specs of Sony's new flagship A1 are on par with Canon's (much cheaper) R5 but the price is similar to the much more expensive 1DXiii , I would say the R5 and R6 will continue to sell well and the A1 will struggle to win over any Canon users especially if Canon brings out a similarly priced (to the 1DXii and sony's A1) mirrorless flagship R1 with even more spectacular specs.
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
457
309
I'm still not clear who the A1 is for. For professional sports, the ergonomics are still terrible for big glass, and who wants to process 30fps at 50MP? That actually seems like a liability unless there's a way to get mraw or sraw (I am wondering whether we've reached the point of diminishing return on fps). For the enthusiast/hobbyist, why would they realistically need more than 20fps? Going from 10 to 20 fps I understand, but going from 20 to 30 and paying $2500 more for that over the R5, I just don't see the value, but maybe I'm missing something.
I think that is no coincidence that A1 and Xperia Pro were announced at the same time.
I read that Sony won the AP contract because they make smartphones.
Coupled together they make a Voltron ENG monster.
I think it is a signal that both products are for ENG.
The lack of flip screen and 10Gb ethernet reinforces that.
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
376
311
and who wants to process 30fps at 50MP?

It's quite straightforward when looking for the 'money shot', just ensure that you make a new folder for each sequence. Then just flip through the JPEG thumbnails. Mark two or three that hit the mark, upload to editor, save the RAWs, delete the rest.

I've done that many times for a keeper rate of well under 10% but that's the joy of digital.
 

puffo25

EOS R5 - Fine art landscape, travel,astro and pano
Jul 18, 2017
112
33
56
italy
I don't think the A1 will affect the sales of the R5 and R6 very much at all. First, the differences in the cameras (R5 and A1) specs are really very small. One can easily argue, for instance, that the R5's video specs are actually better than those of the A1. 4:2:2, full DCI resolution and format, about the same heat limits or maybe even better, higher resolution 4k HQ and HQ out to external recorders, upcoming firmware bringing out Cinema Raw Light and many other aspects of video performance are better. The 30FPS for stills of the A1 come with picture quality losses compared to Canon's 20 FPS performances, and when the quality of the Sony is at the same level as the R5, the max frame rate for the A1 is also 20 FPS. The extra 5 MP of the Sony is insignificant, and the ergos of the R5 and flip screen are better, and the headline RF lenses are so far unmatched.

The only potential advantages for the A1 that I can see right now are a more detailed viewfinder at a higher frame rate, which may be significant in use, faster synch speed for flash in electronic or mechanical shutter, the pixel shift high res stills function (can be implemented in future firmware in the R5), and a faster electronic shutter actuation in general, which may aid in reducing image distortion in video mode and in panning action in stills photography - the extent to which is currently not precisely known. Considering that the A1 costs $6500.00 and the R5 costs $3800.00, the R5 looks like a near match or better, with some advantages going to the R5 and most of the advantages for the A1 being quite minor, while the price for the R5 makes it look like the bargain of the year compared to the Sony.

Overall, when the smoke of the Sony promo fever and its advocates clears, my estimation is that Sony's new camera will be a wonderful but extremely expensive option for existing Sony customers already invested in their lenses, but a quite meek and underwhelming response to the R5 that will hardly effect the popularity of the R5 among current Canon users and users of other brands considering switching to Canon for the R5.

Very good points. Fully agreed.
 
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reef58

EOS RP
CR Pro
Apr 16, 2016
357
291
North Carolina
youtu.be
Well as the performance specs of Sony's new flagship A1 are on par with Canon's (much cheaper) R5 but the price is similar to the much more expensive 1DXiii , I would say the R5 and R6 will continue to sell well and the A1 will struggle especially if Canon brings out a similarly priced (to the 1DXii and sony's A1) mirrorless flagship R1 with even more spectacular specs.

I doubt the A1 will struggle. It will sell well I suspect. I just don't see anyone leaving Canon because of it. Then again I am not a marketing guys. Time will tell.
 

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
259
320
Yes Maps, the below Canon text leaves M out in the cold: :-(

"Under these conditions, we will work to further strengthen our lineup of EOS R cameras and RF lenses to facilitate our aim of expanding our market share among professional and advanced amateur users where demand is solid." - Canon
Definitely no sign of another EF mount camera...
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
181
140
Orewa , New Zealand
Definitely no sign of another EF mount camera...
True , makes sense for Canon (and other camera companies) to focus their resources on the stable ( and high profit margin ) pro & high end enthusiast market who're mainly going to spend their money on the latest RF mirrorless gear and not on the fading market for EF & M mount cameras .
I'm an enthusiast with a 7D2 and I'm planning to upgrade to the R7 when it comes out if I can afford it and my wife can be convinced (which will be a struggle ! )
Very few pros or enthusiasts will buy more M or EF mount gear so I think Canon will keep making the existing models but no new models will be launched.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,266
463
I am certainly no camera industry insider, but I think the A-1 means a lot to people already in the Sony eco system. It is a cool camera for sure, but doesn't offer anything game changing to drive people from the R lineup to Sony. There have been a few cameras of late which are non Canon that have my interest, but the A1 isn't one of the. The Fuji medium format, still want one of those, but don't want the hassle of new lenses, batteries, ect when at the end of the day the photos will look virtually the same as my R5 and 1dx3.

I suspect the R1, R5s, and R7 will offer plenty to folks in the Canon universe.
I agree, I think that's a good assessment. Good to see Sony's best effort in the A-1, its impressive but not in a way that push anyone invested in Canon over to Sony. I've not moved to mirrorless yet but quite happy with Canon and awaiting an R5R or R5S ie a high MP camera. I'm quite happy all my EF glass will migrate over easily with the adapter. The confidence I have in my existing Canon glass and their new RF lens really doesn't make another eco system compelling. I think Canon have steered through this difficult period well.
 
Dec 6, 2018
185
298
I wonder how this outlook will be affected by the new Sony A1? Assuming that Canon will have the “R1” out later this year, with the expected rise in sales from that, they will have a real competitor to it with reviews out, and if they’re really good, that could suppress sales of Canon’s new camera.

LOL ... oh, how will one body from Sony affect the Canon juggernaut that dominates the camera sales world.

Probably as much as a nothing burger.
 

pzyber

Canon Shooter
Mar 25, 2011
22
19
Sweden
www.jimmynordstrom.se
Very few pros or enthusiasts will buy more M or EF mount gear so I think Canon will keep making the existing models but no new models will be launched.
I'm one of them. The M system is perfect for light travelling. Small an compact with some really good IQ lenses. The cheap lenses for the RF system are bigger with worse IQ atm.
And I'm currently investing in my EF system since Canons new R cameras and lenses released late 2019/20 are ridiculously priced here were I live. I will use my EF system until the pricing is adjusted or I might switch system in the future.
As example Canon R5 costs 6340 USD incl. VAT here. Sony A7R4 costs 4380 USD and Nikon Z7ii costs 3870 USD. A bit difficult to motivate that cost just to run Canon even though I love Canon gear.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
Well as the performance specs of Sony's new flagship A1 are on par with Canon's (much cheaper) R5 but the price is similar to the much more expensive 1DXiii , I would say the R5 and R6 will continue to sell well and the A1 will struggle to win over any Canon users especially if Canon brings out a similarly priced (to the 1DXii and sony's A1) mirrorless flagship R1 with even more spectacular specs.
That’s actually pretty wrong. It seems as though you haven’t seen the specs together.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
Very good points. Fully agreed.
It’s a terrible comparison. Nobody with any sense will be comparing those cameras in anything other than a “when is Canon goi g to come out with their flagship mirrorless to compete with the A1, because the R5 isn’t a competitor.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
LOL ... oh, how will one body from Sony affect the Canon juggernaut that dominates the camera sales world.

Probably as much as a nothing burger.
Wow! Some pretty strong fanboys here. This will be a competition between the flagship models, when Canon and Nikon get theirs out, along with the lens lineups.

nothing is for certain.
 

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
69
67
Wow! Some pretty strong fanboys here. This will be a competition between the flagship models, when Canon and Nikon get theirs out, along with the lens lineups.

nothing is for certain.

I would also not discount the Sony a1 too much, it is better than the R5 at a lot of things and the reality is right now that people are buying things based on specs and youtube reviews, both of which Sony is great at looking good in. I'm sure they will have reviews galore saying this or that a1 feature "changed their photography forever". Or "I didn't think 30fps would matter but I was BLOWN AWAY". You know, things like that. If people think they can't sell this camera on youtube they're not paying attention to what is going on out there.

Canon's 1Dx series has never been a good option for advanced amateurs and hobbyists. It is a pro camera through and through which is why it only has 20mpix because the people sitting on the sidelines of the big game with their 400mm lenses don't need or want more resolution.

The a1 on the other hand has those headlining features that amateurs love to see. So that might drive sales for Sony who knows.
 

melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
I would also not discount the Sony a1 too much, it is better than the R5 at a lot of things and the reality is right now that people are buying things based on specs and youtube reviews, both of which Sony is great at looking good in. I'm sure they will have reviews galore saying this or that a1 feature "changed their photography forever". Or "I didn't think 30fps would matter but I was BLOWN AWAY". You know, things like that. If people think they can't sell this camera on youtube they're not paying attention to what is going on out there.

Canon's 1Dx series has never been a good option for advanced amateurs and hobbyists. It is a pro camera through and through which is why it only has 20mpix because the people sitting on the sidelines of the big game with their 400mm lenses don't need or want more resolution.

The a1 on the other hand has those headlining features that amateurs love to see. So that might drive sales for Sony who knows.
But things change. People upgrade what they think their spec requirements are once the technology advances. If this camera, with its two transmitters, can send high rez files as quickly as cameras with 20mp sensors can, then there’s no harm in doing that. Memory cards have gotten much larger, and will continue to do so, so not real restraint there either.

if someone doesn’t need that high rez at times, they can shoot as a lower, binned rez, so no problem there either. As cameras can shoot at higher frame rates, photographers will use those rates. When you can’t shoot the critical moment with a slower rate, a higher rate has a much greater chance of getting that shot.

there’s never a downside to better specs.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
457
309
But things change. People upgrade what they think their spec requirements are once the technology advances. If this camera, with its two transmitters, can send high rez files as quickly as cameras with 20mp sensors can, then there’s no harm in doing that. Memory cards have gotten much larger, and will continue to do so, so not real restraint there either.

if someone doesn’t need that high rez at times, they can shoot as a lower, binned rez, so no problem there either. As cameras can shoot at higher frame rates, photographers will use those rates. When you can’t shoot the critical moment with a slower rate, a higher rate has a much greater chance of getting that shot.

there’s never a downside to better specs.
There is a downside for people who shoot in RAW.
The only way to get the most out of the sensor is to shoot at the native resolution and then downsample to the desired resolution.
Extra resolution complicates the workflow.
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,813
4,431
There is a downside for people who shoot in RAW.
The only way to get the most out of the sensor is to shoot at the native resolution and then downsample to the desired resolution.
Extra resolution complicates the workflow.
Seriously?
 
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melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
709
466
LOL ... oh, how will one body from Sony affect the Canon juggernaut that dominates the camera sales world.

Probably as much as a nothing burger.
Does anyone actually read an entire post? It seems not.

i’m ONLY talking about the A1 vs a possible R1, not all of Canon’s lineup.

i’ve said, here, many times, that once Canon comes out with a full line of mirrorless bodies and lenses, that Sony’s first place in mirrorless will dwindle. Nikon entering the market contributes to that dwindling as well. The only reason Sony has reached this peak is because they had no serious competition. Now they do.

but still, the A1 is a very formidable product, and it’s out at least six months before Canon and Nikon will show theirs, possibly as much as ten months before. If this garners a lot of very good reviews, then people will buy it for their pro use. Every sale of this is one less sale of a possible flagship Canon or Nikon. We already have one or two in this forum who have said they will buy it.
 
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