Canon Says Higher Resolution Sensors Are Coming Soon

[MintChocs]

Who are these higher resolution customers, one might ask? I can only think of two groups, landscape and studio. By the time Canon bring their product to the table, there will not be much room left on it! Unless they improve the dynamic range on a product aimed for landscape pros all those extra megapixels will be as useful as a chocolate teapot. For studio photographers I see the costs dropping for MF though not to the same extent as it is a small market but maybe enough to attract more people who would otherwise have bought this Canon higher megapixel. The only reason I can think of for Canon not improving their sensors is the profit margin. Building a new fabrication plant would impact on their profits and share price something they don't want to do until they absolutely have too, they may never build one and instead in the future just buy in sensors as they foresee that there is no future profit to be made in a declining market.

 

[tomscott]

I don't get the hate on the 5DMKIII yes it doesn't have as much DR as the D800 but we've known that for 3 years. Personally I've not had many situations where DR has been an issue. As a photographer you work the situation and by doing so solve the problem.

Relying on a cameras DR to recover is useful but what have photographers been doing for the last 100 years, there are ways and means, some of the best images in the world have been taken with Canon cameras. Yes the sensor is long in the tooth but it works and it works for a huge amount of photographers and I continue to love shooting with the 5DMKIII and I'm always impressed with how far I can push the files so I don't know why people have such issue. If your struggling so much bracket…

I have also tried the A7 and A7R, its impressive the DR and a nice little camera, but I find the camera a pain to use and the glass inferior and using an adapter a pain because the AF is so slow. The whole ecosystem is too juvenile and needs to grow.

I agree with the disappointment of the 7D. The original 7D was a fantastic camera, truly fantastic camera with a crap sensor and it seems true in the MKII. That sensor was crap when it came out 6 years ago and they are going to use it in a camera for another 5 possible years, for that reason I wouldn't buy one. I had my 7D 2 weeks and hated the noise at low ISO so much so bought the 5DMKIII and never looked back.

I really wanted to buy a smaller Canon camera to take traveling with me and the SL1 is a nice camera but I know how disappointed I was with the 7D sensor and Wouldn't want the images of a lifetime to be taken with it so I'm lugging my 5DMKIII instead because the A7 just doesn't fit the bill for me and swapping to it with the mediocre glass is a £3000 change which is insane.

 

[Marsu42]

I can only think of two groups, landscape and studio.

Two big groups, the latter with a lot of $$$ - so worth having something in store for them.

You can also include macro because having more resolution makes it easier to get 1:1 mag w/o lighting and problems, aperture falloff and the object flying away. And include everybody who wants to cut multiple aspect ratios from one image, changing landscale<->portrait cuts away (nearly) too much resolution with the current ~20mp.

 

[roby17269]

And really do I want a 120mp body? Seriously I don't want to take any steps backward in high ISO IQ for the sake of MP's.

That works for you, great. I personally would have a use for more MP's and better DR at ISO 100.
So who's right?

 

[alexanderferdinand]

@Canon going MF and the past:

Maybe one day we have a toolkit: this body, this back.
Rolleiflex had this changeable magazinsystem for 35mm- was a lovely camera.

Yes I know, sometimes i am dreaming with open eyes......

 

[dufflover]

It's a Canon rep, ofcourse they won't say anything officially negative or bad about their own company.
Corporate common sense (unfortunately) so all just marketing spiel.

 

[roby17269]

But to outright state that they don't know what measurements could possibly be indicating their sensors are lacking in the dynamic range department, or to outright state that their sensors are the best in the world...that's insane.

Their sensors aren't objectively lacking anything unless you have particular needs such as the forum member who needs to boost shadows by 4 or 5 or more stops. For most photographers in most situations, Canon sensors are superb.

I could write pages demonstrating what is "lacking" in the Nikon or Sony systems, but that would be silly because it would just show that Nikon or Sony aren't meeting my particular photographic needs. My comments would be pretty useless to all of the Nikon and Sony photographers whose needs are being met by those systems.

Comments like this fail to acknowledge the simple fact that, while we are all individuals, no one is isolated in their needs. I want more DR, you want something else. Well, many other people want more DR, as a collective group. Other groups want better AF, or more refined Auto ISO, or both WiFi and GPS. Just because one guy wants WiFi in a Canon DSLR doesn't mean no one else does.

I know for a fact that I am not alone on needing more DR. I'm renting cameras, from other brands, to figure out which one will meet my needs and expectations, so I'm not waiting for Canon to deliver. However, that does not change the fact that I WANT Canon to deliver (and, ideally, before I actually make a decision on another camera...but I don't have high expectations for that, especially not now, after this interview). I have a bunch of Canon lenses. I'd rather stick with the Canon system, especially because I think most of their lenses are excellent (some are rather lacking...I would really love a fast replacement for my 16-35/2.8 II that has much better corner IQ). I have Canon flashes, Canon battery grips, tons of Canon batteries and other accessories. I have a ton of Canon adapters for my Lee filter system. It's a PITA to totally switch brands...so, I want Canon to deliver. I'm not the only one, just as you are not the only one who wants them to deliver all the things you want.

However, I AM one of a group of people here who are regularly treated like idiots and fools writing useless words because we want more DR in a Canon camera. Why is it that DR specifically is singled out as something no one should be complaining about with regards to Canon cameras? Why are all the other things more acceptable things to complain about, like the lack of WiFi in the 7D II, or the lack in most of their models of an AF-linked meter for full 3D tracking like Nikon has, or any number of other things. It's perfectly fine and dandy to whine and complain about those things...but DR? Whew...watch yourself if to even mention DR...

+1

 

[Sabaki]

But to outright state that they don't know what measurements could possibly be indicating their sensors are lacking in the dynamic range department, or to outright state that their sensors are the best in the world...that's insane.

Their sensors aren't objectively lacking anything unless you have particular needs such as the forum member who needs to boost shadows by 4 or 5 or more stops. For most photographers in most situations, Canon sensors are superb.

I could write pages demonstrating what is "lacking" in the Nikon or Sony systems, but that would be silly because it would just show that Nikon or Sony aren't meeting my particular photographic needs. My comments would be pretty useless to all of the Nikon and Sony photographers whose needs are being met by those systems.

Comments like this fail to acknowledge the simple fact that, while we are all individuals, no one is isolated in their needs. I want more DR, you want something else. Well, many other people want more DR, as a collective group. Other groups want better AF, or more refined Auto ISO, or both WiFi and GPS. Just because one guy wants WiFi in a Canon DSLR doesn't mean no one else does.

I know for a fact that I am not alone on needing more DR. I'm renting cameras, from other brands, to figure out which one will meet my needs and expectations, so I'm not waiting for Canon to deliver. However, that does not change the fact that I WANT Canon to deliver (and, ideally, before I actually make a decision on another camera...but I don't have high expectations for that, especially not now, after this interview). I have a bunch of Canon lenses. I'd rather stick with the Canon system, especially because I think most of their lenses are excellent (some are rather lacking...I would really love a fast replacement for my 16-35/2.8 II that has much better corner IQ). I have Canon flashes, Canon battery grips, tons of Canon batteries and other accessories. I have a ton of Canon adapters for my Lee filter system. It's a PITA to totally switch brands...so, I want Canon to deliver. I'm not the only one, just as you are not the only one who wants them to deliver all the things you want.

However, I AM one of a group of people here who are regularly treated like idiots and fools writing useless words because we want more DR in a Canon camera. Why is it that DR specifically is singled out as something no one should be complaining about with regards to Canon cameras? Why are all the other things more acceptable things to complain about, like the lack of WiFi in the 7D II, or the lack in most of their models of an AF-linked meter for full 3D tracking like Nikon has, or any number of other things. It's perfectly fine and dandy to whine and complain about those things...but DR? Whew...watch yourself if to even mention DR...

+1

jrista, I agree fullheartedly with you.

My take on this subject, sits outside the technical knowledge that many of you possess. Yet it comes from a Canon loyalist who can no longer ignore the CATCH-A-WAKE-UP SMACK! That is being dished out by so many.

I read a review, the sensor is met with a lukewarm reception. Same thing with video reviews and on forums. Hell, one of my mentors who has invested big money into Canon even went as far as saying that he is thinking about buying either a Sony with adaptor or the Nikon with the 12-24 because he is a landscape junky.

Can I fault anything else on the Canon system?[/b] No I can't. Aside from the odd kink here and there, I simply cannot look pass the otherwise superb system.

Some of the very best lenses money can buy. A superb flash system. And all things considered, fantastic cameras too.

We have all sailed on this Canon ship for a while, yet now we're seeing many who sailed this journey with us, either jumping ship or not very impressed with what Canon is doing sensor wise.

There's contentions from many that the gap isn't that big. I disagree. It is a noticeable weakness that one's eye identifies in mere moments.

jrista, I'm very impressed with your photography and knowledge. It's nice to sound you out as a Canonista.

I am beginning to be very, very nervous that Canon will announce the 5Div with a re-hash of it's sensor technology. Canon must make a statement with the 5Div that will soundly put them back on a level playing ground for the very least.

 

[Isurus]

They also strongly implied that they don't care about low ISO DR and will wait until after sales tank, if ever, to bother. I think they just don't like the cost of a new fab and are doing everything to avoid it, not caring what anyone in forums says or how DxO scores look and gambling that only a few will leave and sales will keep going on as they have been for years to come even if they don't improve low ISO DR (and in other places, the word about 4k for 5D4 sounds pretty negatory as well) Oh well.

I'm hoping that the "our sensors are the best" is just a case of chest beating where they don't want to be seen by outsiders to admitting that they equipment is second best. Inside, I'm pretty sure that the engineers would know the real deal but whether management listens to them or prioritises that kind of work is another thing.

This. Let's face it; no one from PR is going to come out and say "yeah, you are right, our sensors are getting trumped by the competition." They are paid to do the opposite. I'm sure Canon is aware of the weaknesses of their sensors relative to Sony's. Whether or not they do something about it is another matter entirely, but I wouldn't take this interview as indication of much of anything at this point.

 

[axtstern]

This forum is killing me....
The 5DIII has to much of what I don't need, the 6D to little of everything.
So I decided long ago to wait for whatever FF will come next and in the mean time I upgrade my APS sector with the marvellous 7DII which I was waiting for the last 2 years....

Then the 7DII got released and it has all this marvellous new tech, the perfect AF, dual this and dual that but wait a moment... MP up by 10% and 70D out to prove that neither 2 MP more nor 4 years of development result in a reall advantage.... Bah Humbug

So I decided to skip the 7D2 ....

than I started to read contribution after contribution here and stated to think: Ah what are 1800 bucks compared to the money I have sunk already in Canon glass, well why not living another five years with a sensor being only marginally better than what I have in my M? OK come on pre orders are cheap in Canada especially when you get a 24-70 4.0 for free and ordered.

Now comes this interview and the hope for another revival of the M area. More hope for something at least 24 MP, dual pixel AF combined with touch screen and GPS and WIFI and viewfinder and and and....

However I do not want to deplete my pockets on two APS cameras. That means postpone the 7DII and wait if there is a M3 before spring. Probably I will continue to read your guys contributions and change my mind another five times.... Oh how easy was my live when I did not know about this site and walked blind to rumors and current development into a shop to buy a 20D and was surprised that they had the 30D arriving that same day..

 

[AvTvM]

+1 ... exactly my situation too.
7D sold. Some glass sold, some L glass still here. 7D II not interested, 5D III not interested, sensor not good enough, no Wifi, end of life. 6D way too crippled. EOS-M used as transitional "good-weather camera". Waiting for killer M3 and/or killer 5D IV.

This forum is killing me....
The 5DIII has to much of what I don't need, the 6D to little of everything.
So I decided long ago to wait for whatever FF will come next and in the mean time I upgrade my APS sector with the marvellous 7DII which I was waiting for the last 2 years....

Then the 7DII got released and it has all this marvellous new tech, the perfect AF, dual this and dual that but wait a moment... MP up by 10% and 70D out to prove that neither 2 MP more nor 4 years of development result in a reall advantage.... Bah Humbug

So I decided to skip the 7D2 ....

than I started to read contribution after contribution here and stated to think: Ah what are 1800 bucks compared to the money I have sunk already in Canon glass, well why not living another five years with a sensor being only marginally better than what I have in my M? OK come on pre orders are cheap in Canada especially when you get a 24-70 4.0 for free and ordered.

Now comes this interview and the hope for another revival of the M area. More hope for something at least 24 MP, dual pixel AF combined with touch screen and GPS and WIFI and viewfinder and and and....

However I do not want to deplete my pockets on two APS cameras. That means postpone the 7DII and wait if there is a M3 before spring. Probably I will continue to read your guys contributions and change my mind another five times.... Oh how easy was my live when I did not know about this site and walked blind to rumors and current development into a shop to buy a 20D and was surprised that they had the 30D arriving that same day..

 

[tomscott]

axtstern there is no point waiting and wishing, buy what you need. Resale value is always good, if you don't think its good enough some one else will.

Its backward to wait for the perfect camera it will never come. There will be pos and cons to every cam that comes out.

+1 ... exactly my situation too.
7D sold. Some glass sold, some L glass still here. 7D II not interested, 5D III not interested, sensor not good enough, no Wifi, end of life. 6D way too crippled. EOS-M used as transitional "good-weather camera". Waiting for killer M3 and/or killer 5D IV.

The 5DMKIII sensor isn't good enough? Its not at the end of its life either and there is some great deals on them. If you thought the 18mp sensor is ok the 5DMKIIIs will blow you away so will the 6D. Sounds like you need to actually try them. The 5DMKIII is one of the most capable cameras on the market regardless of you thinking its a poor offering. What rubbish.

Half of you sound like spoilt children throwing toys out the pram because Canon hasn't made a camera just for you.

 

[Marsu42]

EOS-M used as transitional "good-weather camera". Waiting for killer M3 and/or killer 5D IV.

Oh my, that sounds awkward. I can understand the rationale, but if you've got some time to shoot and the eos-m is not just sitting there you'll be losing a lot of shots.

I am ranting about the 6d's af system and other crippling all the time, but if you've got L lenses you might want to have a second look at it - if you manage to get someting into focus the iq is excellent and it has well above 14 stops of dynamic range with Magic Lantern's dual_iso module. The 6d2 is imho far away, and late 2015's 5d4 will have a hilarious price tag attached if it's any real upgrade. Currently, looking for a cheap 6d might still be your best bet.

 

[AvTvM]

The 5DMKIII sensor isn't good enough? Its not at the end of its life either and there is some great deals on them. If you thought the 18mp sensor is ok the 5DMKIIIs will blow you away so will the 6D. Sounds like you need to actually try them. The 5DMKIII is one of the most capable cameras on the market regardless of you thinking its a poor offering. What rubbish.

No. The 5D III sensor is not good enough. Not for me. Not in 2014. Not by a long ways. In reality, 5D III is exactly what the 5D 2 should have been ... back when that one was released: OK sensor with good AF system.

And yes, 5D III is end-of-life. Even when most of its owners don't want to recognize it. ;-) And even though Canon has not listed it as EOL or announced a successor ... yet.

As a matter of fact, currently the Nikon D750 is closest to what I would want to get ... as a DSLR. But ... I want no mirrorslapper any longer. I want a fully capable, FF-sensored, yet compact mirrorless package. And the only one currently available (Sony A7/R/S) is not it, due to a number of shortcomings that ned to be fixed first.

18 MP APS-C sensor is not "fine", but even worse, of course. To me, EOS-M is just a cheap stop gap measure until I finally get my "really-right" FF MILC camera system. EOS-M simply was and is by the cheapest and most compact APS-C camera system available. I find it OK for what it is and I like the user interface - there is no menu system as good as Canon's. Plus a nice touchscreen. Except there are a lot of situations where the lack of a viewfinder really kills me.

 

[Mitch.Conner]

They also strongly implied that they don't care about low ISO DR and will wait until after sales tank, if ever, to bother. I think they just don't like the cost of a new fab and are doing everything to avoid it, not caring what anyone in forums says or how DxO scores look and gambling that only a few will leave and sales will keep going on as they have been for years to come even if they don't improve low ISO DR (and in other places, the word about 4k for 5D4 sounds pretty negatory as well) Oh well.

I'm hoping that the "our sensors are the best" is just a case of chest beating where they don't want to be seen by outsiders to admitting that they equipment is second best. Inside, I'm pretty sure that the engineers would know the real deal but whether management listens to them or prioritises that kind of work is another thing.

This. Let's face it; no one from PR is going to come out and say "yeah, you are right, our sensors are getting trumped by the competition." They are paid to do the opposite. I'm sure Canon is aware of the weaknesses of their sensors relative to Sony's. Whether or not they do something about it is another matter entirely, but I wouldn't take this interview as indication of much of anything at this point.

I hope they do something about it. That statement just seems both ignorant and arrogant to me, even as a Canon fan.

 

[Don Haines]

Canon is using an obsolete fabrication run to make it's DSLR sensors....

These lines have a finite lifespan and it will need to be replaced at some point.

They have a newer and finer fabrication run that is operating at under-capacity.... They have done prototypes (most notable is the 120Mp APS-H sensor) on this run...

2 fabrication runs cost more to operate than 1 run.

It is more than obvious that Canon will switch technology on it's sensors at some point in the future. It is beyond the point where this should have happened.... many of us thought the 7D2 would have been the point where it happened.... but it will happen at some point.... it is probably necessary for higher resolution sensors.

No executive is going to come out in public and say "our flagship manufacturing process is a piece of crap.... but in two years we will have a new one, so until then don't buy our product". We know changes are coming, we are just frustrated that it is taking so long!

 

[Keith_Reeder]

However, I AM one of a group of people here who are regularly treated like idiots and fools writing useless words because we want more DR in a Canon camera.

A complete - if utterly predictable - misrepresentation of the truth of the matter.

You're not treated that way because you want more DR.

You're treated that way for banging on, and on, and on, and on about it, to the level of trolling.

And - for what it's worth - the only thing more deserving of criticism than a troll, is a troll who has the bare-faced cheek to present himself as a victim because his trolling attracts the oh-so-predictable reaction from others...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

What I am taking issue with is people saying this:
"Canon sensors are lacking" (or worse)
— when what they really mean is —
"Canon sensors don't meet my DR needs."

This!

 

[Keith_Reeder]

No. The 5D III sensor is not good enough. Not for me.

I've emphasised the only vaguely relevant and accurate part of that sentence for you...

 

[AvTvM]

Even though I don't always agree with Jrista I consider accusing him of being a troll an insult. Very uncalled for. He is going to extremes to substantiate his arguments with knowledge and facts.

It is only fanboys who have a problem with this and to hear repeatedly, that Canon's sensors are not nearly as good as they could and should be. It hurts their ears and their egos. That's why they call it DRoning.