Canon to release major firmware update for the Canon EOS R5

[entoman]

My assumption is that driving the AF motors using the much touted "high speed" RF interface is possible at 195fps. It doesn't need to do actual AF, just move the motors. I don't think the current focus stack mode does any AF after it starts either, it only moves the motors.

I really hope Canon will both improve the focus stacking features and give older bodies those improvements through firmware updates. So far they have only done the former, not the latter.

It would be fun seeing an AF system trying to keep up at 195fps, especially with macro subjects. Not likely to happen! As you suggest, focus-stacking is achieved by setting the initial focus point (manually or with AF), after which AF switches itself off while the motors drive the lens incrementally until the end of sequence.

 

[koenkooi]

I hope not. 60MP will remove the ability for FF 8K RAW and that'd be a bummer. I think 8K (thus 45MP) is a perfect sweet spot for some time to come. [...]

I'm asking this as a non-video savvy person: Suppose an R5X with a 60MP sensor has the option to record, internally, oversampled 8K as ProRES RAW or regular ProRES, would that fit your use case?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Yes, when the R5ii is eventually released (late 2024 is my guess) existing R5 firmware caveats will be removed, but I would also expect significant changes e.g. a BSI stacked sensor of around 60MP, a new generation processor (possibly twin processors, if economically viable), focus-breathing correction, better IBIS, and a much faster burst rate (circa 40fps with electronic shutter).

Are you sure that you are not talking about the R1?

 

[fr34k]

R3 Mkii will be upgraded to 45MP/8K/40fps

I don't think so. If you look at sports photographers, they need to push out pics AFAP and more MP is not the way to go there. Maybe there will be an R3s or something. idk. But I suspect there being a moderately low (~24MP ish) high end and fast FF for quite some time to come.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I hope not. 60MP will remove the ability for FF 8K RAW and that'd be a bummer

RAW video would be higher than 8K, leaving room to stabilize in post.
Exactly 8K makes 8K delivery more difficult for me.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Maybe there will be an R3s or something.

Yeah, the R1.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

What type of clients are demanding more than 45MP?

Are their demands logical,

Since when do client demands need to be logical?
"The customer is always right."

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'm asking this as a non-video savvy person: Suppose an R5X with a 60MP sensor has the option to record, internally, oversampled 8K as ProRES RAW or regular ProRES, would that fit your use case?

Oversampled RAW should not be a thing.
I realize that the other Japanese camera companies do it but I am glad that Canon does not.

 

[scyrene]

Yes, when the R5ii is eventually released (late 2024 is my guess) existing R5 firmware caveats will be removed, but I would also expect significant changes e.g. a BSI stacked sensor of around 60MP, a new generation processor (possibly twin processors, if economically viable), focus-breathing correction, better IBIS, and a much faster burst rate (circa 40fps with electronic shutter).

Such a combination would enable hand-held stacking and merging with more accurate registration than is currently possible - due to minimal movement between frames. It could feasibly be used with images showing a modest amount of subject movement. These benefits could also be applied, with greater effectiveness to a hypothetical R7ii, as the latter would be capable of even faster burst rates that would virtually eliminate camera movement between frames.

Stacking and merging, in conjunction with AI, can enable higher DR, less noise, sharper images, more pleasing bokeh and numerous other benefits.

Sounds (even more) expensive!

 

[entoman]

I don't think so. If you look at sports photographers, they need to push out pics AFAP and more MP is not the way to go there. Maybe there will be an R3s or something. idk. But I suspect there being a moderately low (~24MP ish) high end and fast FF for quite some time to come.

I don't know much about how sports photographers and PJs work, but they could output JPEGs when they need to push out images quickly.

Alternatively, it's quite possible, although not currently implemented, to produce low-res RAW images from a hi-res camera, via pixel-binning. This would e.g. allow a 90MP camera to produce 22.5MP RAWs as and when required. That way you get the RAW benefit of higher DR, but smaller file sizes. And of course you can always shoot full RAW simultaneously to a second card.

Also, Canon has managed to produce very high quality compressed RAW (C-RAW) files, so it's quite feasible/likely that they will continue development and be able to reduce RAW file sizes even further (using AI tech), without observable loss of quality.

 

[entoman]

Are you sure that you are not talking about the R1?

Not talking about the R1.

The R5ii and/or R5s will have the same form factor and build quality as the current R5/6. I'm not clairvoyant, but that much I can guarantee.

I can also with great confidence guarantee that the R1 will incorporate an integral vertical battery grip. I won't speculate further at this point, but I'd expect the R1 specs to be markedly superior to that of the R5 and R3 series. There needs to be major improvement and innovation, purely for product segmentation purposes. IMO, this is the real reason why the R1 is taking so long - that level of development takes time.

 

[Bonich]

I'd like exposure bracketing in electronic shutter mode

First to loose 2 steps of dynamic range by using electronic shutter to get them back via exposure bracketing?

I do think the camera needs different modes for fast speed (i.e. reduced DR) and "lazy shooting".
The combo of shutter mode with a lot of R5's functionality does not make sense.

 

[fr34k]

Suppose an R5X with a 60MP sensor has the option to record, internally, oversampled 8K as ProRES RAW or regular ProRES, would that fit your use case?

The allure of RAW is not having debayered the image allows for "moderate" file sizes.
A bit of math:
DCI [email protected]@24fps uncompressed RAW uses 72900 MB/min ≈ 71 GB/min (8192*4320*12*24/8/1024^2*60).
The R5's implementation applies some compression (only intra-frame) cutting the bitrate into about a fourth (18668 MB/min ≈ 18 GB/min).
Now when you debayer the image, you'll generate 3 times more data because now you have 12bit for every color channel for every pixel. (uncompressed: 218700 MB/min ≈ 214 GB/min) You somehow need to compress that extra information to get back down to RAW level-bitrates. You can do that with inter-frame-compression which is very heavy on your PC during editing, especially on 8K and especially at these bitrates or you need to apply more lossy compression. Both of which you don't want and more data is also hardly justifiable (that's then less than 56min/TB which the "normal" RAW on the R5 uses! ouch!)

So no matter what container you use, oversampling needs debayering, which just increases the amount of data. That's why for me RAW is the way to go. So I would try to avoid oversampled 8K.

As for the rumoured 60 MP applying a similar amount of compression as the R5 reduces the amount of time per TB by about 25% (~14min) and for me that doesn't make sense. And referring to what EOS 4 Life said: you can easily apply a bit of upscaling which only costs some time during the renders (you may sleep during the export anyway...) and not 30% more storage for EVERY file.

We're also always talking about what goes into the NLE, the output is always heavily compressed as you cannot see the difference during normal inspection, but the amount of artefacts you see when pushing the image is greatly minimised if you input the highest quality possible.

Exactly 8K makes 8K delivery more difficult for me.

may I ask where do you need to deliver in 8K? Normally, when you have gimballed footage you'd might only need a 1-2% crop for stabilisation at most, which you can easily upscale back to 8K without any visible problems.

 

[sanj]

Canon has stated the R3 isn’t the flagship. They have stated the 1D X III is the last 1-series DSLR. Do you really believe they will not have a camera they call their flagship? Talk about losing face…

Canon also stated that a mirrorless flagship needed technology still under development. I presume one such improvement is quad-pixel AF or some other method (Canon has filed patents on at least two) to replicate cross-type AF points. Even the bottom-of-the-line Canon DSLRs could focus on horizontal lines, my R3 can’t do that.

There will be an R1. Far more likely that there will be no R3 II. In 2024, the 1D X III will be four years old, the R3 will be three years old. I can easily see the R1 being an evolution from the 1D X III and R3 and replacing both in the lineup, relatively low MP (30-40?) and blazing fast.

I hope that it is blazing fast at 50+ mpx

 

[sanj]

Not talking about the R1.

The R5ii and/or R5s will have the same form factor and build quality as the current R5/6. I'm not clairvoyant, but that much I can guarantee.

I can also with great confidence guarantee that the R1 will incorporate an integral vertical battery grip. I won't speculate further at this point, but I'd expect the R1 specs to be markedly superior to that of the R5 and R3 series. There needs to be major improvement and innovation, purely for product segmentation purposes. IMO, this is the real reason why the R1 is taking so long - that level of development takes time.

100%

 

[neuroanatomist]

Here is the latest from Canon:

"In an interview with French site Phototrend, taken at CP+, a bunch of Canon execs confirms the Canon EOS R1 is in its way. Asked about what is Canon’s current flagship camera, Mr. Go Tokura (General Manager of Imaging Division at Canon) said:


Source: CanonWatch

So, here are two quotes regarding the R1:

"I'm not at all convinced that there will even be a 'R1'." —@entoman

"And you can expect there to be a ‘1’, which is currently being worked on and will be our most premium model." —Canon executive

Who to believe? Decisions, decisions...

 

[neuroanatomist]

I really hope Canon will both improve the focus stacking features and give older bodies those improvements through firmware updates. So far they have only done the former, not the latter.

FWIW, depth compositing and the ability to use a flash for focus bracketing were added to the R3 in Firmware 1.2.1

 

[koenkooi]

FWIW, depth compositing and the ability to use a flash for focus bracketing were added to the R3 in Firmware 1.2.1

I keep forgetting that! I'm getting my hopes slightly more up now

 

[entoman]

So, here are two quotes regarding the R1:

"I'm not at all convinced that there will even be a 'R1'." —@entoman

"And you can expect there to be a ‘1’, which is currently being worked on and will be our most premium model." —Canon executive

Who to believe? Decisions, decisions...

Hence my edit to the earlier post: "haha, I got that one wrong! "

Who to believe?
Speculation from wishful-thinkers here on CR?
Contradictory statements by Canon execs?

Always fun to find out. As usual, a mixture of a few facts and a lot of guesswork!

 

[derrald]

I'd like the option that olympus cameras have that allow you to watch a long exposure as it develops on the rear LCD. Never going to happen though...

I had to go look into that since I had never heard of that feature. That's really cool! I doubt we'll see it any time soon, but I'm glad I now know that it exists.