Canon's Next EOS 5DS Won't See a Big Resolution Bump

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Going to a dual pixel system effectively doubles the number of pixels, so a increase to 60 mp requires twice the number of sub photosites, which is going to be a challenge if anyone wants to use the dual pixel utilities.

 

[Diko]

.....Hopefully image quality is the name of the game from the new high resolution DSLR body from Canon

R u kiddin' me? Like what? A little DR improvement? A little improved DR and a stop more in ISO sensitivity?!?!

The AF will be little better with touchscreen and WiFi/NFC/Bluetooth. That sounds like joke already. Just like the fact it would come with Digic 7. So what?!? :-(

 

[johnhenry]

I hope this camera gets a tilty-flippy screen for two reasons:
1) It's all I ever post about on this forum
2) It seems to me that it would be a great feature for a camera that would routinely be used on a tripod - let's you see the screen easily at any height
This would also allow the camera to better compete with D850

I have the 6D II now and so far, its kinda ho hum. The tilting screen is nice as you can shoot at different positions. The touch screen? Havent even used it yet.

The magnification for looking at pictures took some getting used to

 

[PureClassA]

A 5DSR2 with 50MP that now uses the new sensor build and DPAF would be just fine. A Cfast slot by then would also be welcome. The AF on it currently is excellent for what you use it for (not a fast action camera really anyway) but Im sure that will get a bump up too.

I'm sure they could get crazy and start climbing towards 100MP but I think we start seeing diminishing returns even for the market the current 5DSR is built for. I use mine sparingly for critical portrait work just because of the obnoxiousness of files. 20MP on the DX2 is still my go-to and perfect for general shooting.

Plus now with the 5D4 at 30MP there are multiple great options for high resolution, unless of course you do a lot of work that involves substantial cropping.

 

[dak723]

By now we know how to predict Canon's newest releases - just look at what other manufacturers did two years ago

That's funny! Canon's 5Ds was the highest MP FF camera when it came out over 2 years ago - and is still the highest! Guess you didn't realize how silly your statement was.

Once again CR users show their complete ignorance of physics and pretty much everything else about cameras. Big jumps in DR and ISO sensitivity? Why, didn't you know we are so close to the upper limits now that there are no big jumps (nor were there ever..). You do understand that increasing MPs will increase noise and decrease DR - unless other ways are found to increase the efficiency of the signal? So at best any improvements will be small. You do understand that even at 50+ MPs, the camera (for the most part) needs to be used on a tripod to get the full benefit of those MPs? Hand held you will continue to need to increase the shutter speed ratio - you do understand that? - to a point where adding more MPs will lead to a point of diminishing returns as you fight motion blur? Yeah, let's get an 80 or 100 MP camera that doesn't get you more appreciably more resolution than a 50 or 60 MP camera (or less, hand held) with all the negatives that come with those huge MPs in terms of processing speed and file size.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

would a true crop mode mean that the cropped image filled the viewfinder ?

No, but folks won't mind if it gets you (say) a 2x FPS boost.

But I think it would be possible to have a VF switch to drop in a crop-mode viewfinder magnifier. It would be large/bulky (or change the top VF bump shape considerably), so I don't see it happening in the production camera. That screams optional eyepiece attachment and not standard hardware to me.

I think it would be more straightforward to simply frame the crop modes in the VF (see how the D810 does it here) and not try to magnify it.

- A

thank you - the video of how the D810 does it is very cool !

PS/ I think you're a great contributor to this forum - your posts always seem to be the voice of reason to me - albeit I'm a complete amateur - but thanks, they are invariably interesting and helpful ...

 

[GoldWing]

I'd like to see more effort put into the IDX MKIII

 

[Orangutan]

Big jumps in DR and ISO sensitivity? Why, didn't you know we are so close to the upper limits now

I remember seeing something recently about a sensor with multiple photosites under a single microlens to provide big jumps in DR. (Effectively, single-frame HDR) This has actually been done before, and is simply a matter of will/demand/cost; i.e., it's an engineering problem, not a physics problem.

increasing MPs will increase noise

Per-pixel? Yes. Per-scene? No.

unless other ways are found to increase the efficiency of the signal?

Isn't that what we're hoping will come out of R and into D?

 

[ahsanford]

I'd like to see more effort put into the IDX MKIII

Does "effort" mean resolution? Please be specific.

- A

 

[Deleted member 7828]

As a 5DSR owner, I would rank the following in order of importance in a version 2:

1) Better High ISO Performance/Higher ISO Limit
2) More Speed/Processing Power
3) Bigger Buffer
.......

7) Upgraded AF System (to 5D4/1DX2 level)

........

........

100) More Resolution


TL;DR: 50MP is plenty already. Just work on making it a more well-rounded camera and you've got a winner.

 

[[email protected]]

As a 5DSR owner, I would rank the following in order of importance in a version 2:

1) Better High ISO Performance/Higher ISO Limit
2) More Speed/Processing Power
3) Bigger Buffer
.......

7) Upgraded AF System (to 5D4/1DX2 level)

........

........

100) More Resolution


TL;DR: 50MP is plenty already. Just work on making it a more well-rounded camera and you've got a winner.

Yeah, this is mostly right.

There are a few items people put on spec wish lists that always puzzle me. Why would I care if the chip is a Digic 7 or whatnot? Canon plainly didn't max out the Digics on the 5D Mark IV (a pair of which I love) by giving them only 7 frames per second. It could be a Digic 38, and I'm still going to be stuck with a frame rate determined by a product manager rather than an engineer.

I think similarly about mirrorless. Don't particularly care if it has a mirror or not.

FPS between 10 and 24 gets my heart racing, as does 15 stops of DR at 400-640 ISO, or cleanish output at 16,000 ISO. These are the sorts of things that get ingrained in you as you look at 1000s of shots in lightroom that "could have been."

 

[Mancubus]

More than all these things you guys wrote, I want a proper option to get smaller raw files.

Most of my work gets published on facebook and gets seen on small phone screens. For this stuff, 20mp is more than enough.

However, once in a while I do special photoshoots that I love to print larger, in this case the more mp the better.

As long as they don't screw up on the smaller raw quality, it would be an amazing feature. If they do it right it would also allow very high iso performance.

As for the other features, I wish they would just look at the D850 and copy as best as they can, and this camera would be the best in the market.

 

[brianftpc]

It wont be out in time to stop my move to an a9R...and it wont have the fps to hang with it.....or low light ability

 

[bhf3737]

As a 5DSR owner, I would rank the following in order of importance in a version 2:

1) Better High ISO Performance/Higher ISO Limit
2) More Speed/Processing Power
3) Bigger Buffer
.......

7) Upgraded AF System (to 5D4/1DX2 level)

I own and use 5DSR as my main body and I agree with the order of importance given here. more megapixels would be welcome it it does not compromise the low and high ISO performance.
I think items 2 and 3 are doable with the use of more advanced Digic whatever and faster card slots and Canon will probably provide them.
I have taken good and acceptable pictures with 5DSR at ISO ceiling of 6400 but I cannot say that it can comfortably used in that territory. The question is that what technology Canon can bring on for better high ISO performance and raising ISO ceiling?
These days, the most promising technology that is put into all new Canon new releases is dual pixel DPAF. I understand DPAF can help improve the AF system, tracking moving objects and AF in video. These will be welcome additions but none are core functionalities for the 5DSR as a landscape/studio camera.
Can anyone clarify whether DPAF can help with the improved higher ISO performance?
Can on-chip ADC technology help? Definitely yes.
Can it drastically improve the high ISO performance? Probably no. Therefore, moderate increase of megapixels (to be ahead of marketing competition) and on-chip ADC with better signal processing software will probably deliver moderately better higher ISO performance.
Do we need backlit sensor or similar technology for much better higher ISO performance? Probably yes. Can it be done? Probably yes, but may need huge investment in sensor manufacturing and it will translate to higher production and hence product cost. Historically, Canon usually doesn't beta-test a new sensor technology in a high-end camera.
So the guess is that a bit higher megapixel sensor with on-chip ADC would be something to expect. It would probably be with DPAF, not because of being needed in 5DSR but because it is already part of the Canon's sensor manufacturing process.

 

[RayValdez360]

The camera only needs 2 things, just 3 big things. I own the 5DSR. 1. More dynamic range(less banding when pushed). 2. Some new type of sensor stability because handheld with pixel peeping is less sharp at the same shutter speeds compared to smaller megapixel cameras. I am not tripoding every shoot. 3. Better AF. I dont care abotu video or crop modes but they are welcome.

 

[PureClassA]

I'd like to see more effort put into the IDX MKIII

As an owner and avid lover of the 1DX2 .... what more are you looking for at this point, given it's intended use?

 

[goldenhusky]

I wouldn't hold my breath. The original 5Ds shares the same body as the 5D, presumably in order to save manufacturing and design costs. It seems very unlikely that the 5Ds would get a major body redesign that differs from the 5D IV. Doing so would significantly increase tooling and manufacturing costs for Canon and likely price the 5Ds out of the market.

Exactly my thoughts. Plus they will use the same grip as 5d4 as they shared it between 5D3, 5ds and 5DsR.

 

[goldenhusky]

I can't see another Canon camera getting made without a tilty-flippy other than 1-series bodies. Whatever fears people have of them breaking at this point are dwarfed by the value they offer, especially with DPAF and the ability to shoot over your head by touch.

Unless you are exclusively a war correspondent or arctic wildlifer (or something), it's hard to build a strong case that you can't just leave an articulating screen locked in place.

I don't want to take the thread OT over a general feature debate, but I am curious to see if (for this thread) people think the 5DS/R2 will get tilty-flippy or not. Whaddya think?

The only way I see a 5DS/R2 not getting a tilty-flippy is because Canon is trying to maximize subcomponent volumes for cost and continuing to work off of the same chassis / frame as the 5D4 line.

- A

I guess Canon will most likely share chassis and components as much as possible between 5D4 and 5DsR2. I will be pleasantly surprised if they go out of the way to design a new body.

 

[ahsanford]

The camera only needs 2 things, just 3 big things. I own the 5DSR. 1. More dynamic range(less banding when pushed). 2. Some new type of sensor stability because handheld with pixel peeping is less sharp at the same shutter speeds compared to smaller megapixel cameras. I am not tripoding every shoot. 3. Better AF. I dont care abotu video or crop modes but they are welcome.

The 5DS has a 5D3-like AF system, aka something very close to the 1DX1 AF system used on sidelines for years.

Besides DPAF, which it is sure to get next time, what exactly needs improvement on the 5DS AF setup?

- A

 

[goldenhusky]

I guess the following will be on the new camera for sure
DPAF
Touchscreen

and here is my wishlist
60MP
7FPS
DR >= 5D4
Better high ISO performance
AF performance >= 1Dx2
Bigger buffer
cFast & SD UHS3 - I guess SD UHS3 is less likely
Focus stacking
USB 3.1
Vari-Angle - I guess this is also less likely

I would trade my 5D4 even if canon delivers the top 4 items on my wishlist.