Will the Canon EOS R5s come with a pixel shift like feature? [CR2]

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,683
1,556
[..]Don't forget the biggest barrier for the EF TS-E's and the biggest benefit RF T/S's will get over them is the limitations of tilt with a small mirror box. Canon make longer TS-E's but limiting them to 12º of tilt seriously limits their effectiveness, 12º of tilt is twice as effective at 50mm than it is at 100mm[..]

This is the reason I sold my TS-E 90 non-L, it was much sharper than my 100mm non-L, but for macro distances I needed more tilt than it offered. I'll make a note to rent the TS-E 50 next spring when the dragonflies are back again!
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,912
1,251
This would be perfect for me. Using R5 now with 100-500RF. I love to shoot birds and this will be like 2x converter without quality loss in terms of ability to crop which would be a dream for birders. I also don’t care about video, so this will do me nicely.
Actually it's like a 1.4X converter: SQRT(90/45) = SQRT (2) ~ 1.4

Keep in mind that at that pixel pitch DLA will kick in at around f/5. (The DLA of 90D witch has a pixel size equivalent to a 83MP FF is at f/5.2) Still a reasonable distance from f/7.1 but it wouldn't take any teleconverter stellarly (you would have diminishing returns). But without teleconverter you would be OK (and a reason for me to get it too :) )
 
  • Wow
Reactions: sanj

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,031
775
Davidson, NC
For me it hits a sweet spot in the TS-E range, it is stunningly sharp across the frame but still has some character, and it gives a great fov when shift stitched.

Don't forget the biggest barrier for the EF TS-E's and the biggest benefit RF T/S's will get over them is the limitations of tilt with a small mirror box. Canon make longer TS-E's but limiting them to 12º of tilt seriously limits their effectiveness, 12º of tilt is twice as effective at 50mm than it is at 100mm yet the 50mm lens takes a 1.4 and 2x TC so you end up with three very useful focal lengths, 50/70/100 all with the T/S functionality. The longer focal lengths might be longer but they become less and less effective with the 12º tilt/swing hard limit.

I do as much as possible with it, from product shots to architectural exteriors and interior detail shots, to shift stitched landscapes. Heck I've even experimented on some handheld concert photography with it. Your imagination is the only limit with the lens.
Thanks. I’ll try to get my mind around it. For one thing, since I got a FF camera, I haven’t used my 50mm lens at all. I used it a lot on the Rebel. I guess if I am shooting in that range, I use the 24-105mm zoom. I‘d use the prime if I want to shoot wide open, but the situation hasn’t come up in 3 years. The 85mm yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pj1974

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,567
3,965
Irving, Texas
If 5D Mark IV sells then Canon will make 5D Mark V.
That is how they roll.
It makes no sense to discontinue making things that sell well.
And they'll keep making the 5D Mark IV for a good while. They've not sold a single Mark V. As you know it doesn't exist. Can't continue making what one ain't been making.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
853
690
And they'll keep making the 5D Mark IV for a good while. They've not sold a single Mark V. As you know it doesn't exist. Can't continue making what one ain't been making.
Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
I did not use the word continue in my post.
Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CanonFanBoy

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
336
422
Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
I did not use the word continue in my post.
Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.
It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.
 

Maru

EOS 90D
Feb 9, 2019
123
30
It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.
exact point..they killed DSLR lineup to get more money from RF.... they will make enough profit before rivals get their equivalent RF glass
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
853
690
It is not so much about the camera, it is the mount that will prevent the 5d5. Canon wants to sell RF glass and phase out of EF. A new 5D5 will help sell exactly zero RF lenses.
Here is where we disagree.
Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
They tend to make whatever sells.
They are a business.
They would rather customers buy a 5D than a Sony or nothing at all.
They can't force customers to switch mounts and still stay customers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
336
422
Here is where we disagree.
Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
They tend to make whatever sells.
They are a business.
They would rather customers buy a 5D than a Sony or nothing at all.
They can't force customers to switch mounts and still stay customers.
Here is where we disagree.
Canon could not care less about the EF-M mount and still released M50 Mark II because M50 sells so well.
Canon's best-selling camera is the Rebel T7 so they made a T8 and T8i even though those are DSLRs.
They tend to make whatever sells.
They are a business.
They would rather customers buy a 5D than a Sony or nothing at all.
They can't force customers to switch mounts and still stay customers.
Well they did exactly that in 1987 when they switched from FD mount to EF. It was even worse then because there was no backward compatibility. They not only survived, they grew market share at the expense of Nikon.
 

Klas R

7D Mk II
Dec 3, 2020
5
2
Sweden
Actually it's like a 1.4X converter: SQRT(90/45) = SQRT (2) ~ 1.4

Keep in mind that at that pixel pitch DLA will kick in at around f/5. (The DLA of 90D witch has a pixel size equivalent to a 83MP FF is at f/5.2) Still a reasonable distance from f/7.1 but it wouldn't take any teleconverter stellarly (you would have diminishing returns). But without teleconverter you would be OK (and a reason for me to get it too :) )
Can someone explain more specifically how much the DLA in reality will affect the resolution with a 90 MP FF when you use f-stops above f/5?

For instance if using the EF 100-400 Mk II in combination with the 1.4X III extender, i.e. providing 560 mm/f8,
as well if using the RF 800/11 ?

Will it actually mean that you should forget using the 800/11 in combination with the R5s?
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,255
5,367
Can someone explain more specifically how much the DLA in reality will affect the resolution with a 90 MP FF when you use f-stops above f/5?

For instance if using the EF 100-400 Mk II in combination with the 1.4X III extender, i.e. providing 560 mm/f8,
as well if using the RF 800/11 ?

Will it actually mean that you should forget using the 800/11 in combination with the R5s?
Zero. Diffraction is diffraction, it is exactly the same if you have 20mp or 90mp, the ONLY difference is that the 90mp resolves the diffraction better and sooner, but even then it will still retain more subject detail. A 90mp image will never have less detail than a 20mp image at any aperture value.
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,912
1,251
Zero. Diffraction is diffraction, it is exactly the same if you have 20mp or 90mp, the ONLY difference is that the 90mp resolves the diffraction better and sooner, but even then it will still retain more subject detail. A 90mp image will never have less detail than a 20mp image at any aperture value.
I mentioned diminishing returns if putting a 2X to a f/7.1 lens making it f/14.2 on a 90mpixel FF camera. That's all!
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,912
1,251
Mark V will exist in the future if Mark IV sells.
I did not use the word continue in my post.
Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have occurred.
As MarkIV exists since October 2016 it's safe to assume Canon knows if it sells or more correctly if it has sold for 4 years. My guess would be a big yes (for Mark IV)! But Canon may have other plans for Mark V. We will learn eventually!

It would be best to know and plan accordingly though!
 
Last edited:

Klas R

7D Mk II
Dec 3, 2020
5
2
Sweden
I mentioned diminishing returns if putting a 2X to a f/7.1 lens making it f/14.2 on a 90mpixel FF camera. That's all!

Thanks for your clear answer.

However, I am as well an amateur astronomer. If you look through a telescope you will seldom, even with an apochromatic objective (i.e. the best there is) get more details on an object if you magnify it by more than about 20X/cm the diameter of the objective lens due to diffraction starting to get visible.
I.e. with a 10 cm objective lens when you pass 200X magnification.

If you let us say increase the magnification to 400X , you will not see more details than with 200X, rather you will see less. The reason being that you do get a more enlarged view, but the sharp defined details you had at 200X are now lost into a more "fuzzy", unsharp image. Actually it can mean that you at 400X even lose details, e.g. let us say you are just only glimpsing a certain weak moon of Saturn at 200X, at 400X it may be very difficult to perceive it any longer as it has become even weaker as the same amount of light as before now is smeared out.

That was really my question as regards the R5s in combination with the RF 800/11. Will I only get the same amount of details as with an f/5 lens?
I.e. I will not get anything more as regards added details?

Thus no great idea to consider RF 800/11 as a smart extra investment??
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,912
1,251
Thanks for your clear answer.

However, I am as well an amateur astronomer. If you look through a telescope you will seldom, even with an apochromatic objective (i.e. the best there is) get more details on an object if you magnify it by more than about 20X/cm the diameter of the objective lens due to diffraction starting to get visible.
I.e. with a 10 cm objective lens when you pass 200X magnification.

If you let us say increase the magnification to 400X , you will not see more details than with 200X, rather you will see less. The reason being that you do get a more enlarged view, but the sharp defined details you had at 200X are now lost into a more "fuzzy", unsharp image. Actually it can mean that you at 400X even lose details, e.g. let us say you are just only glimpsing a certain weak moon of Saturn at 200X, at 400X it may be very difficult to perceive it any longer as it has become even weaker as the same amount of light as before now is smeared out.

That was really my question as regards the R5s in combination with the RF 800/11. Will I only get the same amount of details as with an f/5 lens?
I.e. I will not get anything more as regards added details?

Thus no great idea to consider RF 800/11 as a smart extra investment??
I didn't oppose. I just warned that you would not get the full advantage you could possibly expect. Just a part of it. How much I do not know.
My opinion: 800 f/11 in R6 (20Mpixel) very useful 800 f/11 in R5 (45Mpixel) just useful 800 F/11 2X : Don't know/expect a lot.
800 f/11 in a possible R5s (~90Mpixel) Don't know! 800 f/11 2X in the same camera: wouldn't bother. YMMV

The above are not quantified. There is a forum member AlanF who has made research and have expressed detailed opinions on many EXISTING combinations.
 
Last edited:

allanP

Contax/leftover Canon and a shift to medium format
Jan 3, 2014
59
40
Scary. A new developments are announced where the latest cannot be bought!
Even though I switched to medium format, I was ready to buy the R5 and maybe reactivate my work with Canon. Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't promise me a delivery until spring (Europe). How should I still want this phantom camera?
Something goes terribly wrong. Letdown!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maru

Fischer

EOS RP
Mar 17, 2020
299
215
I can compose via OVF with my 5DSR better than with EVF on R5 when shooting Milky Way. There is enough ambient light to see through the OVF. Not so much the EVF. I need to use a flashlight to frame and check my edges on the R5. Not always an option when shooting at night.
You are doing something wrong. EVF has a huge advantage when doing astro.
 

Fischer

EOS RP
Mar 17, 2020
299
215
6 years after the last revolutionary Canon camera - we can hope the 5RS will be yet another legendary Canon camera release. :love:

Have put my Canon 5DS/R and all my remaining EF-lenses on sale today.