Crop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More

[jayphotoworks]

I think anybody that believes there is going to be a factory hardware upgrade in such a high volume camera is in denial.

Wow! We finally agree on something. After some time to consider, I think this rumor does seem less plausible.

Although not directly comparable, I remember Nikon offering a hardware buffer upgrade in their pro-bodies at one point in the past. Owners with older bodies had to pay for the upgrade, but new bodies already had this done. In terms of software, in cinema land, this is par for the course. You pay for software and codec unlocks. In any case, if this doesn't turn out to be a bad joke in a few days when April rolls around and this turns out to be a paid upgrade, I will definitely be one of the first in line. I'd pay just for the XF-AVC codec alone. This upgrade alone dramatically improves the video acquisition process and makes it much more meaningful to use the 5DIV for a wider range of video projects. Everything else is icing on the cake.

For myself and I'm assuming many others, Canon glass is still a mainstay for a lot of production work because the EF mount has great compatibility and is supported with native mounts on many other platforms. If you invest in E-mount glass, you are limited to Sony cameras only. That's not very flexible when working across systems, so many of us complain whenever Canon fails to reach our segment of the market because we want the best of "both worlds." Native lens support on Canon bodies for stills, while having all of the great video features found on the competition.

I created my account here to originally voice my complaints about the lack of a proper video feature set in the 5DIV, so if this rumor actually materializes, I guess I'm going to have to shut up for a long time....

 

[privatebydesign]

Although not directly comparable, I remember Nikon offering a hardware buffer upgrade in their pro-bodies at one point in the past. Owners with older bodies had to pay for the upgrade, but new bodies already had this done. In terms of software, in cinema land, this is par for the course. You pay for software and codec unlocks.

The Nikon memory upgrades cost $500. Serious video cameras cost thousands of dollars and sell in relatively (to a 5 series Canon) low numbers, but factory mount changes and even sensor changes/upgrades are not that uncommon, like the C-Line dual pixel upgrades, but they cost a lot.

Software unlocks/firmware upgrades I can see, but for a volume camera like the 5D MkIV a real hardware upgrade? I just don't see it unless there was another reason for wanting to get those cameras back to the service depots. Like a hidden recall for an issue we don't know about, but I don't believe that either as there is no way there is a serious issue with the camera that we, as a user base, are unaware of.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Theory on all this

Theory:
There was development on a 5DC going on in parallel to the 5D4, but in the end, they realized there wasn't enough differentiation between it and the 5D4 on one side and it and the cinema line on the other. As a result, they wouldn't be able to charge enough of a premium and sell enough of the 5DC to make dedicating a production line to it worthwhile. It is just much cheaper, production-wise, to keep it all in one line.

So they threw ideas around about announcing an early 5D5, etc., etc., but settled on upgrading the current production of the 5D4, so they'd make some incremental sales and not have an unprofitable, small-batch line they'd need to support separately.

There are several plausible theories like this as to why this strange development happened. I don't know if it's already been pointed out, though, that we're a couple days away from April Fools Day as well as - theoretically - a new Canon firmware announcement.

your theory makes the most sense - but canon doing a "recall" to change 5D Mark IV's to a 5D Mark IVs's?

I really doubt this is happening, sounds like someone decided to invent a rumor to see how many legs it would get.

Personally I think a few days away from April 1st is the best theory.

 

[Bennymiata]

I remember in the Lens Rentals teardown of the 5d4, that Roger said there was a lot of free space in the body.
Perhaps now we know why.

 

[serenaur]

Just when I'd pretty much settled on a 1DXII, this announcement comes along! If this ends up being true and is also added to the 1DXII then it's a home run for me - if it's true and is only for the 5DIV then I will have some serious thinking to do.

 

[leGreve]

So what Canon is really saying here.... "you guys should go buy the new GH5 from Panasonic... we dont know how to innovate anymore... "

 

[leGreve]

When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.

it is......? How? GH5 with better codec and higher framerates? The majority of the high end work I do end up on the web at 1080, why the hell would I juggle with 4K for that?

Canon has yet again proved they can't seem to get it right.

I admit, I'm still hoping that one day they will, because I really liked my 5D3 and shooting raw was fun, but since I sold off all my Canon gear and with every Canon announcement I'm confident I'm not missing out.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Color me skpetical. I'd expect an intermediate resolution would conform to Quad-HD resolution i.e. 2560x1440, which is four times the resolution of 1280x720. On the 5D-IV, when sampling alternative lines from the 5120x2880 region of the sensor, the field of view crop factor would subsequently be about 1.31x.

 

[retroreflection]

The new source could have heard "If we were to add x,y,z then we would have to get the cameras back to replace the heat sink." Then maybe the new source passed that along as "Canon will".
If someone wants to explore the feasibility, tear apart a IV. Check those heat sinks. If they have mechanical fasteners and a thermal interface material (grease or film), then maybe service centers could pull it off. If thermal adhesive is used, it can't be just a heat sink swap. The whole board it is sinking would have to be swapped.

 

[benkam]

When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.

it is......? How? GH5 with better codec and higher framerates? The majority of the high end work I do end up on the web at 1080, why the hell would I juggle with 4K for that?

You got the GH5 and you're not using its 4K?

 

[bsbeamer]

Re: HiCrop Factor Change for 4K on Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Included in Coming Update & More

Anyone else think that a 5D C might be on the horizon? NAB maybe? This seems more plausible I think. Filmmakers perform the 5D form factor over the 1DC, so I thing the C will get passed down the line. If not this year, than next...

Many believe the 1DC is never being updated. It was ahead of its time when it was released, but priced WAY too high for wide adoption. The added "bulk" of a 1D vs 5D body is not the end of the world for filmmakers, but it does depend on the style of work and how compact you need to be. Those looking to go ultra small are on Sony A7 style cameras, despite needing to add bulk with lens adapters.

As for the 5DC, I personally do not see it happening this year. If this rumor is true, the 5D4 will be the "flagship" DSLR for video and then larger camera bodies (C100/300/500/700) will be the primary focus for the Cinema line.

I've said for awhile, Canon needs an XC15 without a built-in lens. If the 5D4 updates are as close as we're getting to this, great - it will satisfy a good majority of those people. But if a "5DC" were to come out, the XC15 feature set is what it would need to match and exceed to become successful. They set the bar there with a camera not many even wanted...

 

[AshtonNekolah]

We have been sent more information about the upcoming C-Log update to the EOS 5D Mark IV, while this comes from a new source, it’s pretty detailed.</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV C-Log Update:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>All video output will still be 8-bit.</li>
<li>Sampling for DCI 4K will be increased to a 5632 x 2970 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.27x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Sampling for UHD will be from a 5472 x 3078 pixel sensor area resulting in a 1.29x Crop factor.</li>
<li>Both modes are accurately down-sampled to their final resolutions.</li>
<li>Existing frame rates will remain the same.</li>
<li>The current 1:1 4K sampling mode will remain an option for situations benefiting from the 1.78x Crop factor.</li>
<li>There will also be new full-sensor 3K modes added including 60fps and HDR 24fps.Both will use a line-alternating sampling method, so quality will be inferior to the improved 4K format (but better than the existing FullHD 1080p format.) It is unclear whether the file resolution in the final firmware will be the full 3360 x 1890 format or down-sampled to 3072 x 1728.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also use this 3K full-sensor mode with down-sampling for a noticeable improvement in perceived resolution.</li>
<li>FullHD 1080p will also receive a modest frame rate boost to 72/75fps.</li>
<li>The EOS 5D Mark IV will gain the XF-AVC file format at 120Mbps (4:2:0) and 200Mbps (4:2:2). Both formats should require low enough data rates to accommodate UHS-I U3 type SD Cards.</li>
<li>Reports relating to a possible service job for the 5D Mark IV are the result of the heat sinks on current units not performing well in some environments when used with the newer firmware. This is because of the increased processing load from the enlarged video sampling area. Newer units will ship with an improved heat sink while existing 5D Mark IV units can be retrofitted. Pricing is unconfirmed for that servicing.</li>
<li>The newer firmware will still work in non-serviced cameras, but this may result in premature temperature warnings.</li>
</ul>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

I laughed from the beginning, I suspected this would happen due to the expectations from the buyers, but its nice to see that canon is doing something about it. Nice to see some unlocking, man i wish magic lantern can jump in on this one to do some real full unlocking. The camera has more to offer it always had just canon with pick and choose when and how, now lets move forward.

 

[AshtonNekolah]

Is this an April Fool's joke 4 days early? The 5DIV becomes an entirely different beast with these updates. While I've seen this type of update from companies like Fuji, Ricoh or Blackmagic, I've never seen this scope of update from Canon ever. This feature set directly encroaches on some of their own C series offerings.

If this is true, Canon must be listening to us video/stills hybrid folks and it comes way earlier than I would expect which would have been 3 years down the road in the 5DV.

They listen, its just different on the inside of business, that's what happens when you rush out due to production dates. Now this is what a finished 5D 4 should sound like, with more firmware updates to come.

 

[Mr. Milo]

When this is in place, the 5D Mark IV is respectable and very competitive. I like it.

it is......? How? GH5 with better codec and higher framerates? The majority of the high end work I do end up on the web at 1080, why the hell would I juggle with 4K for that?

Canon has yet again proved they can't seem to get it right.

I admit, I'm still hoping that one day they will, because I really liked my 5D3 and shooting raw was fun, but since I sold off all my Canon gear and with every Canon announcement I'm confident I'm not missing out.

Easy guy. You don't need to be rude or condescending because you're bitter after selling off your Canon gear. That's on you.

I messed around with a GH5 two months ago. It's a beast camera and Canon knows what's up. The body is built very well. It's sturdy.

I think Canon lost a customer with me with their cameras unless they drop the price because $2000 for the GH5 is amazing, BUT I'm holding on to the Canon lens because those things are incredible and better than anything compared to Sony and Nikon offerings. The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.

I'm going to let things play out. I'm in no rush.

 

[bsbeamer]

The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.

If this rumor is true, the GH5 may be one of the bigger reasons this update is on the way now. If you look at the GH3 through GH5, it's been a crop evolution continually improving image quality and using more "full frame" especially if you use an adapter or focal reducer. Factoring in the Sony camera sales, it's clear Canon is missing out on market share. Also factoring the shrinking camera market in general (DSLR and mirrorless) this may be an attempt to take back some of the remaining market. For Canon's sake, I hope this rumor is true.

 

[NightPhotographer]

Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.

 

[tr573]

Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.

i don't think the hdmi port is the spec required for 4k

 

[bsbeamer]

Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.

i don't think the hdmi port is the spec required for 4k

Correct, 5D4 uses HDMI v1.3. Do not believe this would be part of the swap/upgrade, but also did not think this type of firmware update would ever be released by Canon...

 

[davidhfe]

Wouldn't be easier for Canon to let the 4K HDMI out if they wanted to make it appeal to video shooters? ??? If they do that, they do not need to do a hardware modification to bring a new codec on the table. It doesn't make much sense. There are more logical ways to make this camera better for video.

i don't think the hdmi port is the spec required for 4k

This is (and it may be wishful thinking) one of the things that made me think this was real. If something like "clean 4K out" were in the rumor that'd almost certainly be false as it'd require a full logic board swap. I'd have a real hard time believing canon would do that. The general consensus has been this is just straight up not something that can be added via firmware.

 

[Mikehit]

The 5D Mark IV is still competitive (and a good camera), but it pales to the spec sheet of the GH5.

I'm going to let things play out. I'm in no rush.

For you maybe, and specifically for video. But for people who want/need full frame or for people who want to shoot fast action stills the GH5 is way off the mark.