EOS 5D Mark IV & IVc Specs Surface, Most Likely Bogus [CR0]

[douglaurent]

I will keep my 1DC and 5DsR as specialty cameras and all Canon lenses, while using A7R2 and A7S2 as main cameras. Which basically means I don't really care anymore if a 5D4 has 18 or 28 megapixels, 4K or no video etc. Because of the mirror a 5D4 will be behind the Sony's in usability anyway, as filming through the viewfinder with focus peaking is not possible for example.

Now WITH 4K i might buy a 5D4 nevertheless. Without definitely NOT. Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money. It just hurts to see if Canon continues the path of artificially limiting it's products to protect their other lineups.

 

[Don Haines]

Calm down people....

"Most Likely Bogus"

CR0

Nothing to see here..... move along..... nothing to get upset about.....

 

[ahsanford]

All this speculation aside, the cold hard truth is that nobody is going to buy the 5D4 unless there are improvements in DR and it can shoot 4K. Those are the two things the 5D3 can't do. People were willing to drop $4k for a 5DsR because 50mp is a lot of resolution.

Nobody is going to drop $4k for what would essentially be a 5Ds with less resolution. We know this. Canon knows this. Canon knows that the 5D4 is an EXTREMELY important camera for their company, possibly the most important camera they will ever make.

They will not ****** it up. I hope.

Disagree. If the 5D4 looked like the following:

28-32 MP
8-9 FPS
1DX II AF system
Spot metering at any AF point
+1 stop high ISO over the 5D3
Wireless flash controller on board

I would consider paying $4k for it. There's more to this world than pixels, DR, and 4K video.

- A

 

[Adelino]

The anti technology flicker could come in handy when you just want to enjoy a quite weekend.

 

[Adelino]

For general users who buy the 7D2: Yes, FF rigs -- esp. the 6D or 6D2 down the road -- will certainly poach general (non-action) shooters from the 7D2 pool, but Canon is ecstatic about that as EF lenses cost more than EF-S lenses.

You are talking about me right there.

 

[siegsAR]

The reason why there's still no concrete 5D4 spec. is because Canon hadn't made up its mind on what sensor to use. They're more likely to wait until 2018 for their foveon-like sensor than to use Exmor on their dslr. Does this mean we won't be seeing the 1DX2 and 5D4 til then? Who knows. Expect no big improvement sensor wise from Canon dslrs until they drop their Bayer sensor. FF mirrorless? There's none!

CR0

;D ;D

 

[ahsanford]

The reason why there's still no concrete 5D4 spec. is because Canon hadn't made up its mind on what sensor to use. They're more likely to wait until 2018 for their foveon-like sensor than to use Exmor on their dslr. Does this mean we won't be seeing the 1DX2 and 5D4 til then? Who knows. Expect no big improvement sensor wise from Canon dslrs until they drop their Bayer sensor. FF mirrorless? There's none!

We will see new line-leading FF rigs for the 1D and 5D in 2016, I am just about certain:

• Plain and simple, the cycle time is consistent with prior releases in this class, and Canon is nothing if not consistent.
  
  
• The 5DS does not change the timing of the 5D4. The move to 50 MP rigs represented a first step towards specializing FF rigs for different needs -- we know there is a high MP model, we know a general workhorse model is coming in the 5D4 and there very well could be a video-specific 5D offering. Consider: only the studio/landscape crowd truly got geeked about the 5DS platform -- it's a fine platform, don't misread me, but many folks (like myself) are sticking with their 5D3 rigs and eagerly await the 5D4 because other variables -- high ISO performance in general, but higher DR, the 1DX II AF system, higher FPS, etc. are huge wants from the Canon community.
  
  
  
• That Sony 42MP BSI sensor is 99% likely going into a Nikon SLR, and soon. That rig will not be a resolution / 'good light' / studio or tripod specialist like the 5DS rigs are. Other than sports/wildlife work, that rig will be a formidable do-everything flagship-level non-gripped rig, i.e. a staple professional tool. Canon needs to respond with a workhorse 9-out-of-10-at-everything non-gripped camera.
  
  
  
• There are added threats to Canon's core professional users today than there were 3 years ago when the 5D3 was released. It's not just Canon v. Nikon. Sony isn't stealing away professionals left and right that forum-dwelling-enthusiasts would have you believe, but they are growing in stature, portfolio size, and technical capabilities. Further, Canon is facing overwhelming feature-per-dollar pressure on the video front at this price level: Canon's non-Cinema-EOS dollars have so many more options for less cost than they did 3 years ago. And let's not forget that Pentax is joining the FF SLR space, and they tend to pack a TON of tech for the dollar into their rigs. Canon needs to quell any defections with updates to their major FF lines relatively soon.

So, the TLR version: my money's on some major FF announcements in 2016.

- A

 

[[email protected]]

All this speculation aside, the cold hard truth is that nobody is going to buy the 5D4 unless there are improvements in DR and it can shoot 4K. Those are the two things the 5D3 can't do. People were willing to drop $4k for a 5DsR because 50mp is a lot of resolution.
Nobody is going to drop $4k for what would essentially be a 5Ds with less resolution. We know this. Canon knows this. Canon knows that the 5D4 is an EXTREMELY important camera for their company, possibly the most important camera

Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money. It just hurts to see if Canon continues the path of artificially limiting it's products to protect their other lineups.

100% agree with both of you guys.

But with people like the next quote below, Canon will never do anything to improve their camera (I won't speak about innovation, because 4K and DR we have this since two years, so that would be a basic nothing else) if they have cows like this ready to throw 4K$ for 1 stop of low light better than a 5DIII just because there is a Canon sticker...
4K is standard. If Canon wants to make 5DIV a great Camera competitive and so on it should have all the specs below + 4K +14 stops DR + touchscreen (desactivable) with innovative ergonomics + slow mo + good codecs. That's the minimum. Anything less than this is a wish from Canon to cripple the cam, for whatever reason.

Disagree. If the 5D4 looked like the following:

28-32 MP
8-9 FPS
1DX II AF system
Spot metering at any AF point
+1 stop high ISO over the 5D3
Wireless flash controller on board

I would consider paying $4k for it. There's more to this world than pixels, DR, and 4K video.

- A

 

[Tugela]

If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.

By that logic, what video resolution would the 1D-C shoot with its dual Digic 5 processors?

1D-C uses an unorthodox codec. Newer cameras will use hardware encoding to be compatible with existing NLEs, and that means the logic that is built into the Digic 6 (HD at best) or Digic 7 (4K at best), both with H.264 encoders.

 

[luminaeus]

Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money.

That's the key right there. The 5D Mark IV isn't just a 2016 camera, it's a four year camera. It needs to demolish the competition in 2016 and continue to be a solid workhorse in 2020 just like the 5D Mark III is today and the 5D Mark II was in 2012. What will Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic be putting out in 2020?

4K will be a standard feature in all but the cheapest cameras. Same goes for dynamic range, 14 stops will be the minimum. Premium mirrorless cameras will make 10 fps look slow. Mirrorless cameras will ditch the mechanical shutter and we'll start to see 20, 25, 30 frames per second burst rates by 2020. Processing power will be bumped up with new chips for even better autofocus and tracking.

So yeah, the 5D Mark IV has to be excellent. Either that, or Canon will have to commit to a faster development cycle. There's no way an incremental upgrade to a 2012 camera is going to be competitive in 2020.

 

[arthurbikemad]

Mirrorless cameras have a long way to go before ai buy one, missing focus is the main thing that pisses me off with any camera, playing with the Sony was dissapointing for me, great camera but misses focus one time too many, plus the EVF is just not for me at all over a DSLR, speed is what I want, that and IQ, plus low noise....and so on, plus simple fingertip control, that's what a lot of mirror less seem to lack IMO, think Nikon take the good from some of the hi res Sony stuff and package it into a great body. However I like the interface that Canon give the photographer.

I don't give a stuff for what maybe and I try not to hope for such goodies that the www goes on about, it's never over til the fat lady sings and when these new Cameras turn up I will be keen to see the new spec sheet... however it's good to guess lol

So come on Mr Canon, get a shift on ;D

 

[Sabaki]

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

Yet today, the 1DX stands perhaps in a league all it's own. Perhaps the best camera they've ever made? I'm sure that's a contentious claim to some.

But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?

I'm thinking of phenomenon like banding, 'cleanliness' at base ISO, 'cleanliness' at say ISO 6400, handling of reds, greens, yellows, drawing of detail in shadow areas.

Aside from pixel count and processing, what other aspects will make a 5DIV produce better images at the end of the day?

 

[privatebydesign]

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

Yet today, the 1DX stands perhaps in a league all it's own. Perhaps the best camera they've ever made? I'm sure that's a contentious claim to some.

I was very down about Canon dropping the 1DS series, and the 1DX did nothing for 1DS MkIII owners, indeed most of them went to 5D MkIII's and now 5DS/R's.

The 1 series merger dumped a lot of photographers, indeed Canon rather hurt themselves with that approach because people that were happy to buy $7,000 cameras either bought $2,800 cameras or did what I did and didn't upgrade. I am a working pro using 7 year old cameras because Canon have not given me an option to yet.

As a generalist 18mp was never going to cut it, it still doesn't. Give me a 1DX MkII with 24mp and the same specs as currently, or even better stick a tweaked 50mp 5DSR sensor in there and give me 8 fps and I'd be very happy.

 

[Don Haines]

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

Yet today, the 1DX stands perhaps in a league all it's own. Perhaps the best camera they've ever made? I'm sure that's a contentious claim to some.

I was very down about Canon dropping the 1DS series, and the 1DX did nothing for 1DS MkIII owners, indeed most of them went to 5D MkIII's and now 5DS/R's.

The 1 series merger dumped a lot of photographers, indeed Canon rather hurt themselves with that approach because people that were happy to buy $7,000 cameras either bought $2,800 cameras or did what I did and didn't upgrade. I am a working pro using 7 year old cameras because Canon have not given me an option to yet.

As a generalist 18mp was never going to cut it, it still doesn't. Give me a 1DX MkII with 24mp and the same specs as currently, or even better stick a tweaked 50mp 5DSR sensor in there and give me 8 fps and I'd be very happy.

and this brings home a point that so many of us overlook..... it does not matter how good the camera (or lens) is, if you can't afford to buy it then it may as well not exist. Price is a very important specification.....

 

[ahsanford]

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

I don't believe either the 1D4 or 1Ds3 camp ever 'forgave' Canon for merging the lines. There, of all places, you don't offer one camera to rule them all. It was a terrible decision for photographers.

The 1Ds3 camp -- one would assume were principally the studio/landscape crowd -- were the detail crowd, and the 1DX was a step down for them in resolution. That camp has been screaming for more pixels in a 1D sized/featured rig for a very long time, and now much choose between the 1D-level feature set & ergonomics or a high MP camera..

The 1D4 crowd was the speed rig for action/wildlife/birding, yet despite the nice bump in FPS, they lost reach going from a 1.3x crop to a 1.0x crop. So those action shooters had to buy even longer big white lenses. Ouch.

Of all the market segments where there should be specialized bodies, the highest end needs them the most. It stands to reason that Canon should go back to a detail/studio/landscape high MP rig and a speed/action/wildlife rig. The 5D line is getting that, after all -- why shouldn't the top end have that choice as well?

- A

 

[unfocused]

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

It's not just the 1Dx. Every camera Canon releases is always met by complaints from internet forum experts.

People complained that the original 7D was too expensive for a crop camera.

Then they complained that the 60D didn't have all the features of the 7D for half the cost.

When the 5DIII came out, there were complaints about the cost and the small change in megapixels.

When the 6D was released, there were lots of complaints that it was overpriced and under spec'd.

Yet, all these cameras have sold better than their competition. In fact the 7D has so dominated its market niche that Nikon hasn't even attempted to produce a competitor and the 6D was long the best-selling full frame DSLR on the market.

What is consistent is that once the cameras get in the hands of actual users, those users tend to love the cameras.

But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?

This is where Canon excels. Once you get beyond spec sheets and look at the actual performance of their cameras in the field, the consistently perform well above their competition. The result: people on internet forums are reduced to whining about insignificant differences and scouring spec sheets to find things to complain about, while the rest of us happily click away.

 

[ahsanford]

But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?

This is where Canon excels. Once you get beyond spec sheets and look at the actual performance of their cameras in the field, the consistently perform well above their competition. The result: people on internet forums are reduced to whining about insignificant differences and scouring spec sheets to find things to complain about, while the rest of us happily click away.

Agree. We all get hung up with 1-2 features/performance metrics (for sensors: pixels and DR, for lenses: sharpness and max aperture, for videographers: it's 4K or F U) and lose the forest for the trees in search of 'more' in just those areas.

Great examples of Canon wisely giving those people the finger with something different:

• The announcement of a 24-70 f/4L IS caused the internet to break for a while. Yet that lens offers an unheard of 0.7x max mag to go along with a peach of a standard zoom for FF -- light, sharp, IS, sealed, etc. It's a stellar tool.
  
  
• For all the hemming and hawing about the 5D3 not getting a higher MP sensor, Canon solved the #1 problem with the 5D2 by dropping the world class 1DX AF system into it. Yahtzee. (Anyone complaining about the 5D3 AF system is hereby sentenced to shooting for a week with a 5D2.)
  
  
• Everyone angry as heck that the 7D2 was only 20 MP are now armed with a 1DX-like AF system, 10 fps burst and huge buffer are reeling in all sort of lovely bird/animal/sports shots. Nikon crop folks with fancier sensors can only hope their lower framerate and iffy AF won't let them down when the eagle grabs the fish. Nothing stacks up to the 7D2 unless you have the dollars for the 1DX + the most expensive glass.

I don't mean to be a Canon populist here -- there are boatloads of opportunities for their gear to improve. But Canon has a sterling track record of small, pleasant surprises and gear that doesn't drop the ball. I'll take that over a scorching hot spec sheet that never truly delivers any day.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?

This is where Canon excels. Once you get beyond spec sheets and look at the actual performance of their cameras in the field, the consistently perform well above their competition. The result: people on internet forums are reduced to whining about insignificant differences and scouring spec sheets to find things to complain about, while the rest of us happily click away.

Agree. We all get hung up with 1-2 features/performance metrics (for sensors: pixels and DR, for lenses: sharpness and max aperture, for videographers: it's 4K or F U) and lose the forest for the trees in search of 'more' in just those areas.

Great examples of Canon wisely giving those people the finger with something different:

• The announcement of a 24-70 f/4L IS caused the internet to break for a while. Yet that lens offers an unheard of 0.7x max mag to go along with a peach of a standard zoom for FF -- light, sharp, IS, sealed, etc. It's a stellar tool.
  
  
• For all the hemming and hawing about the 5D3 not getting a higher MP sensor, Canon solved the #1 problem with the 5D2 by dropping the world class 1DX AF system into it. Yahtzee. (Anyone complaining about the 5D3 AF system is hereby sentenced to shooting for a week with a 5D2.)
  
  
• Everyone angry as heck that the 7D2 was only 20 MP are now armed with a 1DX-like AF system, 10 fps burst and huge buffer are reeling in all sort of lovely bird/animal/sports shots. Nikon crop folks with fancier sensors can only hope their lower framerate and iffy AF won't let them down when the eagle grabs the fish. Nothing stacks up to the 7D2 unless you have the dollars for the 1DX + the most expensive glass.

I don't mean to be a Canon populist here -- there are boatloads of opportunities for their gear to improve. But Canon has a sterling track record of small, pleasant surprises and gear that doesn't drop the ball. I'll take that over a scorching hot spec sheet that never truly delivers any day.

- A

You missed what I consider to be the best reason to buy Canon..... it works with no surprises.....

 

[ahsanford]

I don't mean to be a Canon populist here -- there are boatloads of opportunities for their gear to improve. But Canon has a sterling track record of small, pleasant surprises and gear that doesn't drop the ball. I'll take that over a scorching hot spec sheet that never truly delivers any day.

- A

You missed what I consider to be the best reason to buy Canon..... it works with no surprises.....

Nonsense. Red. Above.

- A

 

[Sporgon]

• The announcement of a 24-70 f/4L IS caused the internet to break for a while. Yet that lens offers an unheard of 0.7x max mag to go along with a peach of a standard zoom for FF -- light, sharp, IS, sealed, etc. It's a stellar tool.
  
  
• For all the hemming and hawing about the 5D3 not getting a higher MP sensor, Canon solved the #1 problem with the 5D2 by dropping the world class 1DX AF system into it. Yahtzee. (Anyone complaining about the 5D3 AF system is hereby sentenced to shooting for a week with a 5D2.)
  
  
• Everyone angry as heck that the 7D2 was only 20 MP are now armed with a 1DX-like AF system, 10 fps burst and huge buffer are reeling in all sort of lovely bird/animal/sports shots. Nikon crop folks with fancier sensors can only hope their lower framerate and iffy AF won't let them down when the eagle grabs the fish. Nothing stacks up to the 7D2 unless you have the dollars for the 1DX + the most expensive glass.

You missed the 70-300L. That lens was met with howls of derision, yet it soon became a well respected lens from those that used it. How about the 35/2 IS ? "But it's just the old one with the addition of IS" !

When Nikon introduced the battery powered F3 that camera was met by the then equivalent of Internet forum participants, letter writers, with howls of derision too. It went on to become one of the most respected cameras in history.

The Nikon FM, introduced in 1976, "the worst camera ever produced by Nikon". It went on to be one the longest production cameras in history, through the FM, to the FM3a.

So yes, letter writers and Internet experts tend to be looking for something different to your common or garden users.