EOS 5D Mark IV Update [CR2]

[rrcphoto]

If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.

As well, it is very possible they could sneak a $20 (or less) OMAP type processor in the body and get out H.26[4|5] out of a DSP that is made for producing H.26x.

except it's not the DSP, it's heat management.

canon's already stated they could not do h.264 without vent ports such as the XC10 in the 1DX Mark II - thus mjpeg which is very low processor consumption.

and it was "as easy" as you think by just adding a $20 part, they would have done it to the 1DX Mark II

again - both are on the same development schedule, expecting something significantly better than the 1DXII video spec doesn't sound plausible IMO.

 

[retroreflection]

For all of those who see the pace of announcements and releases as a grand Machiavellian scheme by the twirling mustache set at Canon, consider looking at this from a development, design, manufacturing, and finance perspective.
Sony's remarkable "new" technology that they constantly introduce is years old when it hits the shelves. Canon's outdated tech is maybe a bit older, but both are technically obsolete before they start. That's life in microelectronics, for the time being. Point being - more e.g. was spent a long time ago.
Design of a complex camera takes a long time, each working day has certain design elements frozen (no change until the next model, unless you want to delay & blow the budget on this one). I don't know the cycle in cameras, but I expect it to be measured in years.
Unless you want to build a new factory for each new model, you have to build an excess inventory for the old model, convert the assembly line to the new one, get the kinks out of the new assembly process, then build an inventory for the initial sales volume. Someplace close to the end of that process you make the announcement.
R&D involves some serious money, but it doesn't interfere with revenue.
Once you start building inventory on the old model, you are boosting costs without a corresponding rise in revenue. Shutting down for conversion, and then starting up the new line is seriously expensive. I don't know camera manufacturing costs, but I would be amazed if you can play this game for less than several hundred million.
Does Canon do this with cash on hand or borrowed funds? Either way, someone is SCREAMING for a payback measured in months.
The technical team promised a release date a year or two before go time. The board of directors has been monitoring their ability to meet that on a regular basis, with consequences for any slip. The finance team has been watching the money just as closely. They know that payback cannot start before cameras ship.
Now, someone suggests a delay to subtly manipulate demand between the various models. They would never be invited to those meetings again.

 

[LoneRider]

If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.

As well, it is very possible they could sneak a $20 (or less) OMAP type processor in the body and get out H.26[4|5] out of a DSP that is made for producing H.26x.

except it's not the DSP, it's heat management.

canon's already stated they could not do h.264 without vent ports such as the XC10 in the 1DX Mark II - thus mjpeg which is very low processor consumption.

and it was "as easy" as you think by just adding a $20 part, they would have done it to the 1DX Mark II

again - both are on the same development schedule, expecting something significantly better than the 1DXII video spec doesn't sound plausible IMO.

I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with significantly less power.

While the DIGIC processor maybe very well done, they are possibly on the ASICs end of production. Relatively low volume. And frankly we have no idea if they have purchased rights to the TI IP to allow for such efficient coding.

After giving it more thought, it is exceptionally possible the DIGICs in the 1DX-ii do not have the DSP core from a vendor like TI, where as the single DIGIC in the 5DX does. As the focus of the 5DX will likely be different than the 1DX-ii.

I guess, in summary, from what I understand, having worked with OMAP processors, and with people who were on the OMAP software development team in TI, unless Canon has one heck of a core competency we do not know about, they are licensing H.264 (or such) encoding. And that comes at a cost. The 1DX-ii might not be worth putting that in, where the 5DX might be???

We are just speculating.

Maybe this weekend I will see if there are any comprehensive x-rays of the DIGIC processors out there with analysis????

 

[brianftpc]

So they are going to give the 5d 4 better video than the 1dx mk2......and make the c100 mk2 obsolete.....makes sense.

Doesn't anyone find it odd how the rumor makes the 5d 4 sound better in almost every way other than picture fps than a camera that will cost 40% more.

Dont you think canon cares about actually selling the 1dx mk2 after preorders.....

 

[gsealy]

The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.

Yes, while the 1DXII does have 4K internal, it is 8 bit. Also, the 1DXII only supports external HD recording, no 4K. The 5DIV could support external 4K recording, which some of the other competing products do. Also the 1DXII does not have C-Log. We will see if the 5DIV has other video style features such as peaking, etc.

 

[preppyak]

The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.

Yes, while the 1DXII does have 4K internal, it is 8 bit. Also, the 1DXII only supports external HD recording, no 4K. The 5DIV could support external 4K recording, which some of the other competing products do. Also the 1DXII does not have C-Log. We will see if the 5DIV has other video style features such as peaking, etc.

Wouldnt surprise me if it adds a lot of those video features, and the 1DXII adds them via firmware in a few months. One of those "it was in development, but not quite ready, so push them to the next cam" sort of scenarios.

And still shooters should love the push for video. A Canon cam that can do 4k-10bit internal is also gonna have the power to shoot a pretty high frame rate. Easily push from 6fps to 8 or 9 at least. And they'll really love it when processors get to the point where they can handle 4k, 24fps raw.

 

[Schwingi]

We will see, but sounds promising!

 

[mkabi]

The only way I see them beating the 1dx2 in terms of video recording is by adding 10 bit 4:2:2 internal.

Yes, while the 1DXII does have 4K internal, it is 8 bit. Also, the 1DXII only supports external HD recording, no 4K. The 5DIV could support external 4K recording, which some of the other competing products do. Also the 1DXII does not have C-Log. We will see if the 5DIV has other video style features such as peaking, etc.

Yeah, after I posted that... I started thinking that they can add alot more than just internal 10 bit 4:2:2.
Some other guy said Pro Res, that would be amazing... a lot like the blackmagic pocket cinema camera...

But, yeah... I feel for the photographers that don't want video in their cameras....
I strongly suggest that they do create something like a 5DC (further segment the series) and create a separate one for photographers. Mark down the C100 mark 2 and price it a little over the C100 mark 2, but not be more than $4000.

 

[erjlphoto]

But....WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN?

 

[dolina]

NAB 2016 is from 16-21 April

 

[rrcphoto]

I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with significantly less power.

and AGAIN. if it was this easy, canon would have done it already on the 1DX which for the most part would have been designed on the same timeline.

The fact that it's NOT in the 1DX most likely means it's not in the 5D Mark IV. these cameras are developed over a period of 3-5 years.

historically we've seen in the past that even DigiC processors lag about a full year from powershots (quicker timelines) to DSLR's.

What you are also not considering is the heat generated from the sensor / ADC's themselves, versus just the DSP, and also the fact that the 1DX Mark II and the 5D are weather sealed units.

*IF* they decide to make the jump to h.265 from h.264, there's a good chance they can do it - however, it's not likely that would be in the much smaller chassis of a 5D versus a much bigger one of the 1DX Mark II.

So whlie the technology may exist outside, evidence would tend to indicate that canon is "not there yet", unless we are not seeing the 5D Mark IV for another 1 year.

however with the rumored timeline being in months, IMO - I can't see it.

 

[SwnSng]

The Crystal Ball shows:

24MP
10fps
4k - 120fps
1080p- 240fps
C-Log
Reticulating screen

 

[LoneRider]

The Crystal Ball shows:

24MP
10fps
4k - 120fps
1080p- 240fps
C-Log
Reticulating screen

I really want to hope you are correct on the 10FPS, gosh darn it I would be happy. But if my math is correct, for full sensor width 4K, assuming 3 native pixels per 4K video pixel, it will be just over 28MP.

 

[kevl]

Late to the conversation but what is not to like about this CR2 rumour? Moderate increase in MP, large increase in dynamic range! Gimme lit focus points and you can just shut up and take my money.

 

[LoneRider]

I must admit, I am really surprised I have yet to read any ya's or na's on my hypothesis for deducing ~28MP

 

[mkabi]

I am not going to say heat dissipation is not a part of it. But, what you might be missing is the notion that yeah, an modern day intel processor can easily produce H.265 video right, but I can pretty well guarantee you that an OMAP processor, with designed in proprietary IP with its sole purpose of doing compression/decompression is going to do the same encoding with significantly less power.

and AGAIN. if it was this easy, canon would have done it already on the 1DX which for the most part would have been designed on the same timeline.

The fact that it's NOT in the 1DX most likely means it's not in the 5D Mark IV. these cameras are developed over a period of 3-5 years.

The fact that it's NOT in the 1DXII, does not mean its not going to be in the 5D Mark IV.
Those are decisions made by Canon, not by us...

What you should be concerned about is... if it isn't in the 5DIV... which will last another 4 to 5 years...
What will the investers think?

 

[Famateur]

Would much rather wait for announcement and then read reviews of this disapointing Canon dump.

Remind us again why you're here? Beyond the obvious need to proclaim your bitterness, that is... :

Its frustrating to watch canon castrate their cameras just to protect more expensive products. I would really like to see Af linked spot metering(dual card slots will be there on this camera) on 5D mk 3 replacement. Its very useful for macro photography. Even 80D was another boring Canon release, now looking forward to 5D mark 3 replacement for 4K and other features for my field use.

Chaitanya,

I'm sure you're a swell guy/gal, but please...do one or both of the following:

1) Tone down the negativity. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...Remember?
2) Take some business courses and learn about product differentiation, market segmentation, development cycles, competition, economics and finance.

Thanks in advance!

 

[M_S]

Clickbate. Total useless.

 

[Famateur]

For all of those who see the pace of announcements and releases as a grand Machiavellian scheme by the twirling mustache set at Canon, consider looking at this from a development, design, manufacturing, and finance perspective.
Sony's remarkable "new" technology that they constantly introduce is years old when it hits the shelves. Canon's outdated tech is maybe a bit older, but both are technically obsolete before they start. That's life in microelectronics, for the time being. Point being - more e.g. was spent a long time ago.
Design of a complex camera takes a long time, each working day has certain design elements frozen (no change until the next model, unless you want to delay & blow the budget on this one). I don't know the cycle in cameras, but I expect it to be measured in years.
Unless you want to build a new factory for each new model, you have to build an excess inventory for the old model, convert the assembly line to the new one, get the kinks out of the new assembly process, then build an inventory for the initial sales volume. Someplace close to the end of that process you make the announcement.
R&D involves some serious money, but it doesn't interfere with revenue.
Once you start building inventory on the old model, you are boosting costs without a corresponding rise in revenue. Shutting down for conversion, and then starting up the new line is seriously expensive. I don't know camera manufacturing costs, but I would be amazed if you can play this game for less than several hundred million.
Does Canon do this with cash on hand or borrowed funds? Either way, someone is SCREAMING for a payback measured in months.
The technical team promised a release date a year or two before go time. The board of directors has been monitoring their ability to meet that on a regular basis, with consequences for any slip. The finance team has been watching the money just as closely. They know that payback cannot start before cameras ship.
Now, someone suggests a delay to subtly manipulate demand between the various models. They would never be invited to those meetings again.

+1

 

[SwnSng]

The Crystal Ball shows:

24MP
10fps
4k - 120fps
1080p- 240fps
C-Log
Reticulating screen

I really want to hope you are correct on the 10FPS, gosh darn it I would be happy. But if my math is correct, for full sensor width 4K, assuming 3 native pixels per 4K video pixel, it will be just over 28MP.

hmm so how does the the 1Dxmkii do it at 18MP?