EOS 6D Mark II To Shrink & Move Upmarket [CR2]

[Takingshots]

Canon get going with the production of the 6D MK II. Patience is running out as Sony is coming fast and furious with their newer a7r mk ii and a7rs mk ii releases. Any attention to lighter, smaller, faster and better AF will get my attention...

 

[captainkanji]

The 6D has been good to me these last 2 1/2 years, but I think I will be moving up to the 5D series (once I've saved enough). A 5DS would be interesting, but I need a low light beast. Can't wait to see the 5DIV.

 

[pedro]

Looking forward to what the 6Dii will offer in order to interpolate these specs up to a 5DIV. As this body will get the thunder of newness according to CRguy, surely some rumored specs will circulate by then, if a 2016 Q3 release is imminent...

 

[zlatko]

Yet another Canon item moving up the ladder in pricing. Really fed-up with this constant escalation. So much for being the 'affordable' full-frame option.

My upcoming full-frame choice will be between a second-hand 6D1 or the Sony A7. I think Canon loses either way.

I wonder what stratospheric price they have in mind for the 5D4.

Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.

 

[zlatko]

I'd be very happy to see the 6D shrink as long as it retains or improves its overall level of quality.

There is an interview online with a Canon designer who hints that future full frame cameras will be smaller —
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/developing_the_eos_1_series_design.do
He says, "I believe that the optimum size among Canon cameras is the AL-1.” And the AL-1 was quite small!

 

[TeT]

WTF... The Sony products will become much more interesting ... And the Nikon D750 is already less than 2000 € ... I would not buy 6D MK II if the price exceeds € 2000 . I wait until March for my purchase, if you have the info that goes in this direction , I would be either at sony with A7(x) or nikon.

and the Canon 6d II will drop in price as it gets older as well....

You want new release item at the same price as items release 1 to 2 years previous...

So do I, so do we all...

 

[StudentOfLight]

...
I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.

I think this will come. Canon appears to have upped their weather-sealing specifications when one considers recent releases like the 100-400mm L II lens and the 7D-II, both of which were highly praised for their rugged construction and build quality.

Many have requested an AF improvement already and besides your point above, my greatest wish would be for a slight improvement in DR, coupled with a faster sync speed and a lower base ISO. For me that would be a major upgrade for outdoor flash photography.

If they also added an articulating touch LCD with an improved interface that would be the cherry on top and I would definitely buy one (maybe even two of them)

 

[erjlphoto]

Guess that making it smaller and lighter it so it can compete with M4/3 and the Sony "we don't need not stinkin' mirrors" models.

Realistically, the body is already pretty light, its the lenses that make up most of the system weight. If you want the 100-400L or the 70-200L your still gonna be lugging a lot around.

Guess smaller lighter bodies are about perception rather than practicality.

 

[jc7222]

I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.

After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.

A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.

I'm considering the purchase of a phone (LG G4) that has a max shutter speed of 1/6000 sec. I actually think that Canon would be ridiculous if they didn't increase the shutter speed.
I concur about the AF system and the size. I find the 6D just a slight bit too small for my hands to be the perfect size and find it perfect when using the battery grip. I would hate if they make it smaller...lighter would be fine although I find it to be light enough.

 

[degos]

Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.

I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.

But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events.

Now they're moving the 6D2 up into the old 5D2 territory, possibly because lots of wedding photographers and other pros found the 6D quite sufficient for their needs. Canon never misses the opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars the pro-crowd, so they'll remove the 'cheap' option and everyone else be damned.

What full-frame option for the enthusiast now?

 

[Ladislav]

I think the size of the current 6D is fine. If they make it a little smaller, sure great. But with any real glass mounted the body size becomes less and less of a factor. Right now a 6D with say a 16-35 f/4 or 24-70 f/4 has good balance. And with a small prime like the 35 f/2 IS it is a joy to bring along anywhere.

After playing around with my Tamron 150-600 this weekend on both the 70D and the 6D, I can reiterate my number one improvement would be the focus system. Give me more points, covering more of the frame, and all cross type.

A distant 2nd to the focus system, the 1/4000th shutter limit. More so now then ever, with mirrorless cameras having electronic shutters going to 1/32000, you at least need the 1/8000.

Could not agree more. Even landscape / travel camera deservers more than one useful focus point and 1/8000 shutter speed - especially with the price tag.

 

[Ladislav]

I wonder how does NFC corresponds with upmarket? Are we going to tap phones or tablets to transfer 20MB+ RAW images? Is there really so many customers who are looking for upmarket camera to shot JPEGs? Don't take me wrong - I stand in the front of the queue for better connectivity features. I love GPS and I'm somehow satisfied with WiFi but NFC? I would be much happier with bluetooth for remote triggers.

I'm also not so impressed with making camera smaller. I use camera with Tamron 24-70 and Canon 70-300L a lot and having even smaller camera would not work very well for balancing the lens. Plus I'm very afraid of previous rumor about changing type of the battery to make camera smaller.

 

[Ladislav]

I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.

That is a very good requirement for travel camera. I don't trust weatherproofing of current model.

 

[Marsu42]

Even landscape / travel camera deservers more than one useful focus point and 1/8000 shutter speed - especially with the price tag.

I completely agree with the price tag vs. features, but strictly speaking you don't "need" 1/8ks for travel and tourism, it's just one stop earlier to use the nd filter.

For motion stopping purposes, 1/4k and 1/8k imho hardly make any difference, what's really for stopping a bullet in motion are electronic shutters reaching far faster shutter speeds. But if I remember correctly, Canon might implement electronic shutter even for their old-school dslrs with the 5d4 and later.

I'd like better weatherproofing in the next 6D.

That is a very good requirement for travel camera. I don't trust weatherproofing of current model.

And you're right not to do so, mine already broke down once after some rain (though it survived some others before and after after immediately drying).

However, "travel" doesn't equal "outdoors" and you'll be just fine with the current sealing for most tourism purposes. Canon will be very careful not to cross into the domain of their premium models, after all the actually working sealing is a big selling point for the 1d series and - less so - for the 5d.

If you want "sealed" and "affordable", look for Pentax, and as Canon won't catch up concerning this combination my guess is that they won't even try.

 

[dufflover]

One stick out aspect of the 6D was how obviously Canon gimped it as much as it could in many areas (you'd think that would cost more to do as well ). So a tell tale is whether they will do the same here to supposedly protect the higher lines. For instance again, only a centre AF cross point? You'd think not twice in a row lol

 

[LonelyBoy]

I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.

But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events.

Now they're moving the 6D2 up into the old 5D2 territory, possibly because lots of wedding photographers and other pros found the 6D quite sufficient for their needs. Canon never misses the opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars the pro-crowd, so they'll remove the 'cheap' option and everyone else be damned.

What full-frame option for the enthusiast now?

Lots of enthusiasts (including you!) spring for the 5D-series. The 6D will still be under that, just probably by less. There doesn't even have to be anything nefarious going on - everyone complained about a few things on the 6D (AF points and shutter speed among them) and addressing them is "moving upmarket". An enthusiast that can't afford any of the FF options (and doesn't want a very affordable used one) isn't going to get an FF body. Canon is under no obligation to make FF available at a specific price point.

 

[Marsu42]

An enthusiast that can't afford any of the FF options (and doesn't want a very affordable used one) isn't going to get an FF body. Canon is under no obligation to make FF available at a specific price point.

No, they aren't - but other brands will make ff more accessible, the Nikon d600 is the reason for the existence of the 6d in the first place.

With more used camera bodies available used prices are bound to drop. Imho there's no way out for Canon other than do real upgrades to their 5d/1d lines and hope enthusiasts on a budget will shy away from the hassle of jumping ship and be content with a "traditional" dslr in the 6d's current price region.

They might try to get away with a "early adopters" premium for 6d2 pre-orders, but I'd be very surprised if the 6d2 would stay above the current price level for a longer time.

 

[zlatko]

Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.

I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.

But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events.

Now they're moving the 6D2 up into the old 5D2 territory, possibly because lots of wedding photographers and other pros found the 6D quite sufficient for their needs. Canon never misses the opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars the pro-crowd, so they'll remove the 'cheap' option and everyone else be damned.

What full-frame option for the enthusiast now?

I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.

"Canon never misses an opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars" is the distinctly glass-is-half-empty view of everything. It means that if they improve a camera or lens from one model to the next and charge more for the improved model, they've done something wrong. They never get credit for the improvement, only blame for the price increase.

At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it. Someone is always blaming Canon for not building the exact camera they want at the exact price they want to pay.

 

[Marsu42]

I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.

Disclaimer: I'm shooting Canon for decades, and it's "my brand".

Having said that, imho Canon has worked hard to get this reputation. It really depends on the specific equipment one owns, but if you're unlucky and are not a premium customer, you could be affected by their marketing policy... I cannot count the times when I though of Canon b/c my 60d doesn't have afma at a €1000 price point. Ymmv. Magic Lantern to the rescue!

At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it.

That's how a market system works, supply and demand. It's not up to the demand to think for the supply and vice versa. Last not least, there's tech evolution so the "natural" progression is for prices to drop for the same thing or get more "value" for the same price.

 

[K]

If the 6D goes away - who will pay for a crippled "entry level" FF that costs over $2,200? That's around where the 6D's retail release price was. And rumor is saying "upmarket"

"Upmarket" means only one thing -- higher price.

So...to summarize, Canon is going to offer a 6D2, at a higher price than the original 6D, which other than a newer sensor, will have minor evolutionary advancements, all in a smaller package.

This is appealing to whom?

My guess is this is only for FF travel enthusiasts who want higher quality than a crop, but the smallest possible body. I don't see that as being a big market. 6D2 is going to be like the 5DS, another specialty type camera for existing Canon owners. Like adding another golf club to the bag. This has very little appeal to anyone who wants to enter the FF realm without paying $3K and wants to have serious features.

I think it comes down to the AF system. If they at the very least, don't put in the 61 point system of the 5D3, in following their tradition of recycling older systems, this camera will NOT be a 5D3 "lite" the same way the 6D was to the 5D2. In this regard, at least people laying down over $2K are getting a 5D3 level camera which is well rounded. However, the terms "evolutionary" indicates the 61 point system isn't happening.

It is very hard to justify over $2,200 for a camera with a single card slot, and a primitive (by today's standards) AF system. Is the selling point that it is smaller? We'll see how that plays out. I cannot figure out why people make a big deal out of very minor differences in camera body size, when they are slapping on huge L glass. But that's another topic.

D750 is currently under $2K. And it is jam packed with many features and a very high quality sensor with top level AF. I just don't see the value in a 6D2 the way it is rumored to be spec'ed.

I guess the real factor here is Canon glass. It is superior, but Canon must feel that their lenses are so much more superior...they can get away with what they do on some of these bodies. In other words, people put up with it because of their superiority in lenses. I agree the Canon system is better as a whole.

While Canon L lenses are better, with more selection and quality - Nikon is NOT that far behind. They have some killer glass that does just fine. Canon doesn't have a tremendous advantage here.

Again, before the shills and fanatics come out to attack me for criticizing Canon in an objective manner - do understand that my perspective is from either a first time FF buyer or someone wanting a serious camera at a "budget" price. My perspective is not that from a hard-core Canon owner of multiple bodies and dozens of pro lenses that doesn't mind adding another one to the arsenal.