EOS 6D Mark II To Shrink & Move Upmarket [CR2]

[erjlphoto]

Sorry you feel that way. I bought the original 5D for $3,300 in 2005, and the 5D2 for $2,800 in 2009. The 6D is better than either of those, and I bought it for $1,450 in 2014. The 6D was $1,900 in 2013. It's now down to $1,250 at some sellers. I'm happy with the improved quality combined with the lower prices.

I didn't mind paying the full retail price for the 5D back in 2007, and I only sold it last year! Still managed to reclaim a fifth of its price.

But the 6D was meant to be everything that the 5D3 wasn't; cheap, handy, light, non-sealed, basic AF sufficient for travel and social events.

Now they're moving the 6D2 up into the old 5D2 territory, possibly because lots of wedding photographers and other pros found the 6D quite sufficient for their needs. Canon never misses the opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars the pro-crowd, so they'll remove the 'cheap' option and everyone else be damned.

What full-frame option for the enthusiast now?

I don't get all of this cynicism. The 6D2 doesn't even exist yet, so the price and features are unknown. All we have is a rumor. But people are already blaming Canon for doing something wrong.

"Canon never misses an opportunity to squeeze a few more dollars" is the distinctly glass-is-half-empty view of everything. It means that if they improve a camera or lens from one model to the next and charge more for the improved model, they've done something wrong. They never get credit for the improvement, only blame for the price increase.

At the same time, forums are full of people wanting this or that improvement, but not wanting to pay for it. Someone is always blaming Canon for not building the exact camera they want at the exact price they want to pay.

Well I have owned three, count them...one, two, three 6D's. They came after the Nikon D600 debacle when I switched to Canon. One 6D was stolen, the others are doing just fine and are a bargain considering their performance. But the camera body is small potatoes, the reason I will stay with Canon is my investment in "L" glass all of which is awesome.

 

[lo lite]

We’re told the EOS 6D Mark II, which isn’t expected until early 2016 at the earliest, will move upmarket “slightly” in features and pricing.</p>

I hope that also means it inherits the controls layout of the 5DIII/7DII.

 

[zlatko]

Well I have owned three, count them...one, two, three 6D's. They came after the Nikon D600 debacle when I switched to Canon. One 6D was stolen, the others are doing just fine and are a bargain considering their performance. But the camera body is small potatoes, the reason I will stay with Canon is my investment in "L" glass all of which is awesome.

I have two 6D's and use them a lot. Like you, I consider them a bargain. They are not the "perfect" camera but they are very good. I tried Nikon, Fuji, Olympus and Leica and they were not perfect either. So I'm not one of those who are perpetually disappointed.

 

[Ladislav]

Dear Santa Canon,

here is my Christmas wish list for Canon 6D Mk II:

Please make it proper walk around, outdoor, still, travel camera. For me that means:

Must have features:

• Better AF - nothing like 7D, 5D, 1D series. Just combining -3EV centre point with AF system from 70D (all cross type!!!) nicely spread on FF size would be awesome improvement.
• Better build
  • Better weather sealing - I don't want to be afraid of exposing the camera to light rain or humid conditions
  • Better AF point selector - current mechanism is terrible
  • Better placement and size of DoF preview button - current placement is very unfortunate
  • Better protection of LCD - Gorilla glass?
• At least slight improvement in high-iso and low-iso performance and dynamic range.
• Keep built-in GPS - it is still one of the main reasons why I'm not considering moving upmarket to 5D

Nice to have but I will not scream if these features are missing:

• 100% viewfinder
• 1/8k shutter speed
• Two SD card slots
• Bluetooth as alternative to WiFi for remote triggering - it is easier to set up and you don't need to disconnect your device from WiFi
• Please bring SW features available in other models (especially the latest 7D mk II). It is lame to differentiate products by SW features. Examples:
  • Exposure compensation in M mode with Auto ISO
  • Full range of min shutter speed in AV mode and Auto ISO mode

Features I don't care about because I don't need them but I may find them useful in the future:

• Increase in MP - I found 20MP enough.
• f8 AF
• Remote flash trigger (RT)
• Faster flash x-sync

Features I really don't want (means I don't like them to increase the cost of the camera)

• Built-in flash
• Touch screen - I really liked touch screen on 650D but after moving to 6D I found it completely redundant
• Anything related to video - If you remove current video features I will still be very happy with the camera. If I wanted to shot video I would not bought DSLR in the first place.
• Swivel screen - I prefer better build
• NFC - wtf?
• Smaller body - I like the current one. I previously had 650D and I like current size much more.
• Any change in battery size. Any downgrade in battery capacity
• CF card slot

If that means "slight" increase in price, I'm still happy with that. If you need to build small FF camera to compete with Sony and others please do it as a completely new product line (8D?).

 

[Dick]

My question would be: Is it better or worse than 5D3?
If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...

The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Features I really don't want (means I don't like them to increase the cost of the camera)

• Anything related to video - If you remove current video features I will still be very happy with the camera. If I wanted to shot video I would not bought DSLR in the first place.

My man, I like the cut of your jib! 8)

 

[Bernard]

Last I read the mechanical speed of the shutter is limited to about 1/200sec, thus your max sync speed when using flash. Everything beyond that is accomplished by narrowing the slit between the two halves of the shutter as it moves down the frame, the shutter never fully opens.

That's how all focal-plane shutters have worked for over 100 years. The flash-synch speed is the fastest speed at which the first curtain completely clears the sensor/film before the second curtain starts to close. Shorter speeds are achieved by having the second curtain close before the first curtain has completed its "journey."

The reason why all digital cameras don't use electronic shutters is that you can get better quality with a mechanical shutter. Short explanation: with a mechanical sensor, you can clear the sensor data before exposure (in the dark), and read the data while no new photons are coming-in. This reduces noise, increases ISO, and increases DR. Many cameras that offer electronic shutters still have mechanical shutters for this reason.

 

[K]

My question would be: Is it better or worse than 5D3?
If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...

The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.

The AF system isn't bad. It is primitive compared to what is out there today. But for what it is and how it was designed, it is very good actually.

F1.2 on a sunny day? You need a filter for that, not 1/8000

To each his own, I don't shoot wide open on sunny days anyway. Can achieve very shallow depth of fields and good bokeh stopping down just a bit and that makes a big difference. Image is sharper at the focal point too. Either way, you'll want a filter to be able to do any kind of longer exposure in bright light.

I'm of the opposite opinion, the 6D has Canon's best button layout ever. The quality of the directional pad is a bit lacking, but I've had no issues. Rest of the buttons are the same as any other higher level Canon.



Anyhow, based on the rumors. It looks like Canon is happy with raising the price of the 6D2 without providing anything significant other than a new sensor.

 

[Marsu42]

The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed.

Good thing you're here to take the 6d bashing crown from my hands, I do feel relieved now

1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.

I don't understand how this squares with your deprecatory comments about the 6d above?

Anyway, around here (Germany) the 1/4k of the 6d isn't sufficient for shooting even with my 100L f2.8 wide open in summer time, but as the other posters wrote you need a nd filter for faster lenses anyway so 1/8k won't save you.

 

[jma5terj]

An EF-S prime? It wouldn't make all that much sense seeing that you can buy a full frame prime.

Want approximately 35mm? Get a 24mm prime.
50mm? Get a 35mm prime.
85mm? Get a 55mm prime.
135mm? Get an 85mm prime.

You're still losing the compression of a legitimate focal length on a full frame, but these give the similar image crop, leaving no need for an EF-S mount specific lens. Sigma makes a 30mm...or just buy the 35 and it will work on a full frame camera if you ever want that.

They are bigger than EF-S primes would need to be, particularly the wider angles.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Anyhow, based on the rumors. It looks like Canon is happy with raising the price of the 6D2 without providing anything significant other than a new sensor.

So, how exactly do you know there won't be anything significant? Don't cite the "evolutionary" rumor, either - there's a whole lot of room for upgrade without "revolutionary" changes.

 

[MintChocs]

My question would be: Is it better or worse than 5D3?
If worse, it's irrelevant. If better, I'm interested...

The current 6D has horrific buttons and a bad AF system + 1/8000 shutter speed is needed. 1/8000 is close to being fast enough for f/1.2 even on a sunny day.

I'm with you on the AF point selection system, totally crap. I can live with the reduced point, single line AF points but to actually get to choose a specific point is PITA. As for 1/8000 well in the UK we hardly get any sunshine so very rarely needed. LOL.

 

[Luds34]

Dear Santa Canon,

here is my Christmas wish list for Canon 6D Mk II:

Please make it proper walk around, outdoor, still, travel camera. For me that means:

Must have features:

• Better AF - nothing like 7D, 5D, 1D series. Just combining -3EV centre point with AF system from 70D (all cross type!!!) nicely spread on FF size would be awesome improvement.
• Better build
  • Better weather sealing - I don't want to be afraid of exposing the camera to light rain or humid conditions
  • Better AF point selector - current mechanism is terrible
  • Better placement and size of DoF preview button - current placement is very unfortunate
  • Better protection of LCD - Gorilla glass?
• At least slight improvement in high-iso and low-iso performance and dynamic range.
• Keep built-in GPS - it is still one of the main reasons why I'm not considering moving upmarket to 5D

Nice to have but I will not scream if these features are missing:

• 100% viewfinder
• 1/8k shutter speed
• Two SD card slots
• Bluetooth as alternative to WiFi for remote triggering - it is easier to set up and you don't need to disconnect your device from WiFi
• Please bring SW features available in other models (especially the latest 7D mk II). It is lame to differentiate products by SW features. Examples:
  • Exposure compensation in M mode with Auto ISO
  • Full range of min shutter speed in AV mode and Auto ISO mode

Features I don't care about because I don't need them but I may find them useful in the future:

• Increase in MP - I found 20MP enough.
• f8 AF
• Remote flash trigger (RT)
• Faster flash x-sync

Features I really don't want (means I don't like them to increase the cost of the camera)

• Built-in flash
• Touch screen - I really liked touch screen on 650D but after moving to 6D I found it completely redundant
• Anything related to video - If you remove current video features I will still be very happy with the camera. If I wanted to shot video I would not bought DSLR in the first place.
• Swivel screen - I prefer better build
• NFC - wtf?
• Smaller body - I like the current one. I previously had 650D and I like current size much more.
• Any change in battery size. Any downgrade in battery capacity
• CF card slot

If that means "slight" increase in price, I'm still happy with that. If you need to build small FF camera to compete with Sony and others please do it as a completely new product line (8D?).

This is pretty comprehensive, yet almost echos my exact sentiments. I'd probably swap 1/8000th with better build quality/weather sealing as I see the former more important and find the current quality good enough. And maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I've used all my DSLRS, including my old T2i, in snow, light rain plenty of times and not thought too much about it or had any issues.

Other then that I might bump faster flash sync speed up as well into the "nice to have". But otherwise I really agree with your list. Especially enjoy the "please leave off/out no interest".

 

[Frodo]

I just purchased a 6D to replace my 5D II - I tend to wait until the price plateaus out. Prior to that I had a 5D, a 20D and a 300D, and before that a series of film SLR's starting with the TLb and ending with the EOS 5.

Why did I go with the 6D rather than sticking with the 5D II, or get a 5D III or a 5DS?
Well, price is important - I would rather invest in glass that I will keep for several years, rather than a body I keep for may be three.
I wanted:
- Better focusing than the 5D II gave me in low light with the centre point - achieved.
- Quieter shutter as I shoot a lot of events/functions - achieved significantly, especially with silent shutter with little loss of function
- Better high ISO performance: achieved: 5DII topped out at 3200, 6D is at least a stop better
- Less banding in shadows: seems to have been achieved, but haven't really tested this.
- Smaller and lighter (I travel a bit and want lug less camera and have one that is less conspicuous): achieved
- GPS (I travel a lot): achieved
- Improved auto ISO, etc (I lost a lot of photos because shutter speed at 1/focal length is not sufficient for sharp photos: achieved in part: better than 5DII but could be further improved.
- Same batteries giving a serious number of shots (I have three Canon spares): achieved

What surprised me:
- The much-maligned loss of the joystick - didn't bother me at at all. Almost prefer the new set-up.
- The changed zoom play buttons: I set the magnification button to 100% so this is a simple 1 button push to check focus
- The depth of field button: actually easier to access than on 5DII (YMMV). I have it programmed to the tilt display.
- The single function buttons along the top are fine
- Wifi remote shooting works surprisingly well, although haven't really needed this yet.

What I don't need:
- 1/8000 sec (if this makes the shutter louder)
- More than 5 fps (also if this makes shutter louder)
- Two card slots
- 100% finder (but please don't go smaller than 97%)

What I miss or am disappointed in:
- In-camera HDR is almost a waste of time (the jpeg provides no more DR than pushing / pulling a single RAW file)
- Crippled software (why no separate RAW files when shooting HDR, why no in-camera editing of small RAW files?) - I installed the Russian hack in my 300D to recover functions crippled from the 10D
- Why no RAW display on top panel?

So what would I like in a 6DII?
Well, I'm very happy with the 6D and would like more of the same.
Many of the functions listed in this long thread would be nice, but then these would increase size / price / shutter sound. There will be a 5DIV for most of those functions. I have a 7D for wildlife / sport shooting and the total price of 6D plus 7D was less than a 5DIII.
Don't need many more mega pixels. I did consider getting the 5DS, but then I hardly ever need huge files - my prints tend to be under 30 inches across and 20MP is fine for this. And I can usually stitch when I do.
I would like better weather sealing - haven't really tested mine, but I do go to challenging locations / conditions.

So the criticised "evolution" is fine with me!

 

[jedy]

Well, I'm very happy with the 6D and would like more of the same.

Something tells me that's what we're going to get, more of the same. It'll probably get improvements to bring it in line with other Canon camera's like an improved focus system. Also lets not forget Canon wont add anything to this camera to dent the sales of a new 5DIV - look how the 6D was 'compromised' in a few areas, focus motor for one. As for video shooters, I see the video specs remaining exactly the same. No 4K - same 'would dent sales of other cameras' reason. In fact I see a 5DIV with the same video specs.

Personally for me, I am happy with my 6D (use it for video as well as photos), bearing in mind the 6DII wont be available until sometime in 2016 which is quite a way off anyway. I bought mine in 2013 when the price had been lowered so wont be keen to buy a 6DII at it's initial price. If I were to part cash for a new camera, I'd be more keen to spend it on full frame mirrorless but we don't yet have a decent and mature system with a big lineup of lenses. That would also mean selling all my Canon stuff to buy into a new system.

 

[gggplaya]

If they added the 19 point all cross type AF system from the 7D/70D/T6x, i'd be a happy camper. It's plenty great for most people and won't compete with the 5D series.

Also, considering it'll be a dedicated sensor, if they had some on sensor PDAF points like the Hybrid CMOS AFIII, it would kick butt in video. I'd also be extremely pleased.

Some extra dynamic range would be nice, but i doubt that's coming to the 6D.

 

[super_newbie_pro]

We’re told the EOS 6D Mark II, which isn’t expected until early 2016 at the earliest, will move upmarket “slightly” in features and pricing.</p>

On thenewcamera :

Canon 6D Mark II Will Feature New Sensor, WiFi and NFC

According to the latest rumors surfaced over the web the upcoming 6D Mark II camera will going to feature better core specification including new sensor and enhanced connectivity features compared to the predecessor, that doesn’t mean the camera will become a mid-entry level fullframe camera… the camera will remain at entry level position.

The rumor also suggest that the upcoming camera will be light weight, bit pricy and smaller compared to the current 6D camera. The camera will also feature built-in WiFi and NFC + a not specified “new connectivity feature”.

Canon 6D Mark II is expected to arrive on Q4 of 2015 or Q1 of 2016. If Q4 2015, Canon will target Christmas Sales

 

[Marsu42]

The rumor also suggest that the upcoming camera will be light weight, bit pricy and smaller compared to the current 6D camera. The camera will also feature built-in WiFi and NFC + a not specified “new connectivity feature”.

Uhg, that doesn't sound it's for me unless it has a serious sensor boost esp. in the dr department. Still, I'm happy to shoot with 6d1 camera bodies for an indefinite time in the future.

Canon 6D Mark II is expected to arrive on Q4 of 2015 or Q1 of 2016. If Q4 2015, Canon will target Christmas Sales

I still don't see this at all, not before a 5d4 release. And if it would be x-mas 15, imho there would be much more concrete rumors than now ... and there's just pure speculation.

The only way this early date is reasonable would be if the 6d2 is about a gimmick'ed 6d1 with better home user connectivity, smaller body for travel and maybe dpaf for live view shooters (which would account for the "new sensor" and the increase in price).

But still, even more expensive than the 6d1 at release price with this kind of competition, including very small mirrorless ff cameras? Canon must be very confident to have spotted a new market segment...

 

[super_newbie_pro]

Canon 6D Mk II Update – According to a email we have received today from a anonymous source one of the prototype of Canon 6D Mk II features 24 MP Fullframe sensor and a subtle change in core specification compared to it’s predecessor. He also said that the prototype he is testing loaded with beta firmware and the 6D Mk II hardware performance is limited… and the end he also hinted that Upcoming Canon 1DX Mk II will have higher resolution sensor with a expandable ISO range similar to current Sony A7s camera.

Source ; new camera

 

[K]

A 24MP 6D2 with a single card slot and who knows what AF isn't very appealing.

Being (according to many here), an enthusiast's camera - I would hope for 28MP. This would make it a much better choice for the enthusiast as the current 6D is used quite a bit for landscapes. If Canon is going to omit "pro" type features from this line of camera, at least give people more resolution.

Canon really needs to offer more on this body in my opinion. Nikon's 24MP D750 offers a tilt screen, dual card slots, wifi, and a very strong 51pt AF system. It has an excellent sensor. Grey market prices I've seen go as low as $1,600ish on that. This means that the D750 is positioned as such that it can not only be a great enthusiast's camera, but it can do some pro work too.

And.........

Nikon is going to announce their new 24-70 2.8 VR ...if they update the glass to meet or beat Canon's...this is good news for the Nikon camp. For an entry level pro - for the money, it is going to be hard to beat Nikon. And once someone is in a system, it is hard for them to switch. Canon can consider that a lost customer probably for life.

That is what's been my gripe in all of these 6D2 threads regarding single card slot. Canon doesn't have a camera competitive on features in FF at the entry level. They have a 6D2 that is slated to be neutered and clearly for the enthusiast market. Anyone with commercial intents needs to bust out another $1,500 or so for a 5 series body.

$1,500 is a fortune to many up and comers. I meet a lot of pros trying to get their foot into the market. I see the gear they are using. They badly want FF, but they aren't or can't spend that much and certainly not for a neutered camera on data safety and AF.

I think overall, a neutral, system-less shopper would find Canon's glass lineup better. But bodies do matter. Nikon has a camera that serves both purposes at that price point. Canon does not, and doesn't look like they will either.