Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...

[DB]

The original post on this thread is extremely valid - ergonomics is extremely important (why I personally choose Canon over Nikon).

I shoot with the 7D + grip and yesterday I tried a 5D2 without (even though it is slightly wider), the 7D feels more natural to hold, especially with one hand when not in use.

Seeing as new DSLR prices are so high, particularly the new accessories such as the BG-11 grip for the 5D3, why don't canon offer both 'tall' body (integrated grip) and 'regular' body options on all xD cameras? Obviously they could charge a premium, say +$500 for a tall 5D3, over a regular short body. After all, the interior tech is the same, just more magnesium alloy + weather seals. It would also kill off 3rd party 'knock-off' grip vendors.

 

[Bombsight]

Seeing as new DSLR prices are so high, particularly the new accessories such as the BG-11 grip for the 5D3, why don't canon offer both 'tall' body (integrated grip) and 'regular' body options on all xD cameras? Obviously they could charge a premium, say +$500 for a tall 5D3, over a regular short body. After all, the interior tech is the same, just more magnesium alloy + weather seals. It would also kill off 3rd party 'knock-off' grip vendors.

Thats a great idea .... you're just going to have to wait 4 yrs for Canon to say you can pre-order it ... & another year to actually get it. :

 

[briansquibb]

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

What makes you think an amateur wont see it anyway? Why the put down of the amateur by a pro - the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur does it for fun, the pro for money. Bad ergonomics would stop it being fun.

I shoot mostly in portrait and the ergonomics of the 1D are key to me.

 

[Razor2012]

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

What makes you think an amateur wont see it anyway? Why the put down of the amateur by a pro - the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur does it for fun, the pro for money. Bad ergonomics would stop it being fun.

I shoot mostly in portrait and the ergonomics of the 1D are key to me.

Also, just because a pro gets paid, that doesn't automatically make them good.

 

[sovietdoc]

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

What makes you think an amateur wont see it anyway? Why the put down of the amateur by a pro - the difference between a pro and an amateur is that the amateur does it for fun, the pro for money. Bad ergonomics would stop it being fun.

I shoot mostly in portrait and the ergonomics of the 1D are key to me.

Also, just because a pro gets paid, that doesn't automatically make them good.

But if you get paid for your photography, it automatically makes you a pro. Regardless how horrible your photos look.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Well a non-gripped 5D3 sure beats the 1 series hands down for ergonomics IMO and you pay less to get the better ergonomics avoid the brick too.

 

[nikkito]

All I want to say is that I don't care how heavy my camera is, all i care is the results i get.
I've travelled around Europe with my camera on my neck and 8 kilos of lenses on my backpack. Does my back hurts sometimes? Yes. But when I look at the pictures back at home I'm one happy camper.

 

[smithy]

...I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional...
...it has flaws that I can touch and feel as a professional photographer who, maybe, is used to expecting more...
...I am just sharing my opinion as a 12 year professional...

To seemingly assume - in a camera forum of all places - that you're the only one here who has used a camera in a professional context is incredibly naive.

I've been using Canon EOS bodies continuously since the mid-90s (starting with the EOS 500), and I've never felt like any one of them has had bad ergonomics. It always take time to adjust to the feel of a new body, but really it's not that difficult (and it's advantageous to be flexible as a professional). For a creature of habit like yourself, the fact that the 1-series cameras haven't changed much in button placement over the years mean that it's the perfect solution for YOU. It's all about muscle memory. But obviously the built-in grip of the 1D cameras is going to be better than the bolt-on type, as I said in my earlier post - not just for ergonomics, but for build quality and weather proofing as well.

I have absolutely no doubt that you will LOVE your 1DX. I love the 1-series bodies - in fact I could have bought any of the currently available 1Ds instead of the 5D3 - but I'm very satisfied with my decision. There are just some places you can't go with a giant camera body unless you have a press pass...

 

[bdunbar79]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still trying to figure out the POINT of the OP's post here? Looking for a reaction, what? I'm lost.

 

[lonebear]

I couldn't agree even a teeny bit more. Anything less than 1D series must make me feel way less professional. Those small size models like Leica's must be amateurish. Couldn't believe someone would have stuck to Leica plus 50mm life long. Must be the king of amateurs, or the king of maybe ...

 

[crasher8]

I went from a T2i gripped to a 7D no grip. Gripping a smaller body doesn't necessarily make it more manageable but actually can create more awkward ergonomics. My 7D is just right for my man hands and I have no desire to grip it.

 

[ScottyP]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still trying to figure out the POINT of the OP's post here? Looking for a reaction, what? I'm lost.

The OP just wants to impress on everyone listening that when he is looking to grip his rig, he requires something big and substantial, with some heft and girth to get both hands around.

 

[briansquibb]

Well a non-gripped 5D3 sure beats the 1 series hands down for ergonomics IMO and you pay less to get the better ergonomics avoid the brick too.

I guess that statement is based on your experience which I assume doesn't include significant portait orientation.

Non gripped bodies are very difficult to move the AF point in real time when in portrait mode.

 

[pwp]

I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics". I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons. Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.

No, I am not going too far. I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional or at least pro-sumer like a 5D to be better...
It seems all of you 5D users fail to see the reality and can't accept the truth.
I rented a 5D III for a whole week without a grip to see if I liked it. I was extremely happy with the quality of the camera... Build, photo quality, noise levels, focusing speed, screen... The best camera in the market so far, but this grip is just not right... It took me 5 seconds to realize there is something wrong with it.
P

+1 Exactly. When you use both cameras on a daily basis in demanding high pressure environments, you notice all sorts of subtleties. The button placement of the BG-E11 is unfortunate. It's still a great camera, but the 1- Series bodies are unsurprisingly so much more refined. Interestingly the 5D3/BG-E11 is heavier, taller, thicker and overall bulkier than the 1D4.

PW

 

[pwp]

Doing sports/action based photography, I can't see how anyone could manage to lug around a huge 1-series plus its lens all day without having serious back problems. I gave up the 1DII for the 7D, never looked back... The grip comes in handy sometimes, but usually it just makes the damn thing too big.

Hmmm, maybe. I guess all those Canon shooters at elite sports events shooting with Mk4 & Mk3 bodies must be missing something. Expect 7D sales to surge.

PW

 

[pwp]

You're trying to make it sound like you wrote your initial post to assist everyone, but I'm afraid that your tone made it come across like you were gloating at everyone who can't afford a 1D X... Rather than act defensive now, I'd suggest that you are a little bit more careful not to cause unnecessary offense in future.

Horses for courses. I found the OP interesting and value the trouble he went to to overlay the controls of the 5D3 & the 1DX to illustrate his points. It was a well presented description coming out of direct experience.

If it's pushing buttons for you, try sidestepping the emotion for a moment and see that he's offering a personal viewpoint that is 100% valid for him and plenty of others, but just may not mesh with everyone's position. And that's OK!

PW

 

[wockawocka]

As a 1D owner I always dreamt of a smaller format bod.

Now I have one in the 5D3 I'd like a 1Dx thank you very much.

 

[Bombsight]

Personally, if I pay 1,000's of dollars for a camera with a large body, I dont want to have to tighten half of it up every now & then.

Send that back breaker (1DX) to me asap, Canon! ;D

 

[bdunbar79]

You're trying to make it sound like you wrote your initial post to assist everyone, but I'm afraid that your tone made it come across like you were gloating at everyone who can't afford a 1D X... Rather than act defensive now, I'd suggest that you are a little bit more careful not to cause unnecessary offense in future.

Horses for courses. I found the OP interesting and value the trouble he went to to overlay the controls of the 5D3 & the 1DX to illustrate his points. It was a well presented description coming out of direct experience.

If it's pushing buttons for you, try sidestepping the emotion for a moment and see that he's offering a personal viewpoint that is 100% valid for him and plenty of others, but just may not mesh with everyone's position. And that's OK!

PW

Except that nobody cares. Anyone that has a 1D body and/or a 5D Mark III body likely isn't a novice and already knows all of this subjective garbage. And I can say that, because I do have a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III. I love them both. What would I have to gain by going on a message board and starting a thread about how the 5D Mark III will never be the 1D Mark IV, etc. etc. Please don't take my post the wrong way, but really, there was no point at all considering the audience who owns these two cameras. Secondly, I did not pay what I paid for the 1D Mark IV for ergonomics. I paid for the fps, image quality, buffer capacity, autofocus speed. For ergonomics I have no problem with either the 5D Mark III or the 1D Mark IV. Like any tool, you learn how to use the tool. When I get a 1D X I certainly won't be on here flexing because I have one and paid for it for the ergonomics. In fact, I'd rather have a backup 5D Mark II in addition to my glass and other bodies instead of 1D X, at least right now. But yes, eventually I too will buy the 1D X and have it with my 5D Mark III.

 

[lonelywhitelights]

The OP's post just seems like a blog post to me. yet he's posted it here knowing for sure he's going to get some kind of reaction.

but - he's obviously the kind of person that uses his equipment as a crutch to hold up his own personal issues with size and other inadequacies.

Look at all my amazing gear! isn't it wonderful!?... but please don't look at my photos! ever!