High Megapixel Camera Coming in 2015 [CR3]

[tron]

A question: Is it possible that the loss of sharpness by AA filter to be counteracted by the use of slightly increased sharpening? If that is so we can have the best of 2 worlds. Unless some very fine detail is lost completely at capture time...

 

[Marsu42]

A question: Is it possible that the loss of sharpness by AA filter to be counteracted by the use of slightly increased sharpening? If that is so we can have the best of 2 worlds. Unless some very fine detail is lost completely at capture time...

Good question, I hope someone from the CR heavyweights comments on this. My current understanding is "yes", as you know what has been done to the image you know how to counteract most of it.

These is are interesting links on capture sharpening:
http://www.frontallobbings.com/2011/05/to-anti-alias-or-not-anti-alias.html
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-sharpening.htm

Btw this article argues that the moiré problem deminishes with higher sensor res: http://photocritic.org/what-was-an-optical-low-pass-filter-and-why-did-we-need-one/

 

[tron]

Thank you very much for the links (especially the first two).

I have found the following interesting link:

http://www.canonwatch.com/eos-5d-mark-iii-hacked-anti-aliasing-filter-removed-more-sharpness/

 

[Lee Jay]

A question: Is it possible that the loss of sharpness by AA filter to be counteracted by the use of slightly increased sharpening? If that is so we can have the best of 2 worlds. Unless some very fine detail is lost completely at capture time...

You need a different type of sharpening to compensate for the roll off of the AA filter prior to the Nyquist limit. But, yes, very little is actually lost that can't be recovered. On the other hand, the aliasing from the lack of an AA filter cannot be removed in post processing.

 

[Lee Jay]

Thank you very much for the links (especially the first two).

I have found the following interesting link:

http://www.canonwatch.com/eos-5d-mark-iii-hacked-anti-aliasing-filter-removed-more-sharpness/

Wow - what a horrid test. They lighting is entirely different between the two shots.

 

[Don Haines]

Thank you very much for the links (especially the first two).

I have found the following interesting link:

http://www.canonwatch.com/eos-5d-mark-iii-hacked-anti-aliasing-filter-removed-more-sharpness/

Wow - what a horrid test. They lighting is entirely different between the two shots.

+1

The exposure is different, the two shots are not framed the same and there is a huge difference in how clear the air is...

nothing to see here.... move along.... move along....

 

[crashpc]

Guys, you must have some problems with your PCs. I have my 18MPx files processed (LR) in matter of seconds on i5 without OC, even undervolted. It takes lets say up to 10s. 36Mpx would be 15-20s then. What´s wrong with your i7s!?
Do you use SSD drives?

Anyway we need 64Mpx APS-C and 128Mpx FF sensors, and there will be about no problem with AA.

 

[psolberg]

as expected. I also expect a lot that said "36MP is too much" to eat crow and buy the thing anyway because we all know it is only bad if you can't get it 8)

Then it will be all about how much it sucks to be under 50 etc. fanboys will be fanboys.

More down to earth, sony/nikon sensors will push to 50MP or so based on scaling their existing 24MP designs. The question was not if, but when. I'm surprised it didn't happen this year to be honest. I think 2015 is a good year for this to happen. Given canon totally missed the trend during the last iteration it is a mistake they won't do again and maybe deliver a true 5DMkII replacement which used to be the best value for the dollar and deliver the best detail you could buy. Today that is the D810 and surely the high resolution market isn't going away.

One thing is for sure: the day of the low light religion being the only measure are over. And I'm glad. Not everybody shoots in a dark closet with the lights off.

Which brings the question, with the MP race doing one last push, will sony now head to extend their DR lead? I think as ISO and MP stop selling bodies, HDR single frame will.

 

[Khufu]

3D? It looks so... real :

I get the prehistoric reference but, really, does anyone reeeally believe this is more likely to be called a 3D than a 4D or the flying spaghetti camera? Not that I don't believe it's coming, just that... '3D'?

 

[psolberg]

Having bought a D800 and some pro level Nikon Glass, my big issues were post processing high ISO images. It was taking a minute for Lightroom to run the NR on a image, and that was a modern i7 pc at the time.

I've upgraded computers twice since, and those old D800 images process reasonably fast now. However, I still am uncertain about having to process 2500 images.

The big Use I get out of high MP images is the ability to crop, but that's only if they are pixel sharp, and the Nikon images were very noisy when severely cropped, while I can crop my 5D MK III without that concern.

Still, if there is a high ISO improvement, and dual pixel technology, I'll be very interested, and will likely pre-order, if only just to get a place in line.

If the 1D X drops a bunch in price, I'll jump and buy a used one.

sorry to break it to you but if you think the 800 is noisy, this will disappoint you. It will also crawl your PC. But that's easy, just get a new one The noise levels in shadows on the 5DIII are nothing to behold so your bar isn't that high, yet I think it is too high for a 50MP sensor which will act more like an APSC sensor today. Quite simple if you really need high ISO, at the expense of your dynamic range, stay low MP.

 

[psolberg]

Some people are excited, some are denouncing this. One thing is for certain: this is a huge buzz that will not just affect Canon shooters but shake up the market for other brands as well. Studio/landscape shooters will be flocking to this 50MP body if all goes well, and suddenly Nikon and Sony will have to have something like this.

"if all goes well".

If by that you mean "Canon delivers a FF sensor with competitive IQ." (better DR, no pattern noise)

Consider that Sony is also expected to deliver a FF sensor in the 40-50MP range early in 2015.

If I had to choose between (say) a 46MP Sony Exmor based camera that was just as good as the Nikon D810/610 or a 50MP Canon sensor based camera that had the same IQ as the 7D2, I'd still go for the non-Canon camera because simply having more MP doesn't give me a better quality picture.

And in 6 months time, maybe that will be the debate here:

"Canon has more MP, better AF!"
"Sony has more DR, better IQ!"

... but the problem for lots of us will be that a FF sensor that performs the same as the 7D2 sensor won't represent anything new or better: there will be just more of it.

This is spot on. nobody will really flock to this from other brands. But I suspect many landscape people stuck with canon and 22MP will. So it will be a movement within canon. Why? 36-50MP will be the same as comparing 22-36. Yes it is better, no question, but not enough to justify a quick jump without seeing what Sony has up their sleeves and their rumored 40-50MP sensor, which as you say offer more than just high MP. If sony were to take as long as canon took to do this, they may be an issue, but given how sony moves these days, I think the chances are high 2015 will see their new flagship FF sensor move higher. I just don't see sony being so slow as canon is to move in particular because sony revived this trend and caught canon with the pants down. Sony likely has been working on the 36MP successor from the time they were working on the 36MP final stages.

 

[Lawliet]

One thing is for sure: the day of the low light religion being the only measure are over. And I'm glad. Not everybody shoots in a dark closet with the lights off.

Back to "painting with light", less accidentellement objet trouvé...

Which brings the question, with the MP race doing one last push, will sony now head to extend their DR lead? I think as ISO and MP stop selling bodies, HDR single frame will.

One of the recent patents describes electrochromic shutters over each sensor cell - global shutter and switching between normal, phase detect with the option of telling each cell to be horizontally or vertically sensitive w/o reduction in full well capacity.

 

[msm]

On the topic of AA filter. Canon's current FF cameras already have weak AA filters which produce moire with sharp lenses. In fact it is a much bigger problem on my 5D3 and 1DX than on my A7R because fewer lenses are actually sharp enough to produce moire on the A7R.

With a 50mpix sensor it will be even less of a problem, I for one definitely do not want more blur on top of lens imperfections. Wide open it is a rarely a problem and if it is a shot with large DOF you can always just step down to diffraction land and avoid the problem entirely.

 

[dgatwood]

The 7DII is chewing 20,2MP at 10fps and its buffer handles an infinite number of jpegs and about 30 RAW. Which translates to 4 fps and 12-13 RAWs in 50MP terms. But that is if a new camera is a copy of the 7DII for every thing else but resolution. Is that very likely? The 50MP camera comes a year later, will cost more and can justify more computing power, can use faster memory cards etc. etc.

The thing is, what's limiting Canon most at this point seems to be their USB bus speed: Their SD card readers cap out right at the USB 2.0 maximum typical speed. Canon needs to upgrade their SoC to a modern core and shift image processing functionality into dedicated GPUs. If they did that, they'd be able to have two uncrippled UHS-II SD card slots writing at up to 512 MB/second—four times the maximum speed of CF, and fast enough to do 20 frames per second if you alternate between cards. Of course, cards with such speeds don't exist yet—right now, you'd only be able to do about 10 fps continuous when alternating—but IMO it is critical that Canon stop shipping these dog-slow SD and CF card slots and move to proper UHS-II slots so that their reader will stop being the main bottleneck.

 

[Eldar]

The 7DII is chewing 20,2MP at 10fps and its buffer handles an infinite number of jpegs and about 30 RAW. Which translates to 4 fps and 12-13 RAWs in 50MP terms. But that is if a new camera is a copy of the 7DII for every thing else but resolution. Is that very likely? The 50MP camera comes a year later, will cost more and can justify more computing power, can use faster memory cards etc. etc.

The thing is, what's limiting Canon most at this point seems to be their USB bus speed: Their SD card readers cap out right at the USB 2.0 maximum typical speed. Canon needs to upgrade their SoC to a modern core and shift image processing functionality into dedicated GPUs. If they did that, they'd be able to have two uncrippled UHS-II SD card slots writing at up to 512 MB/second—four times the maximum speed of CF, and fast enough to do 20 frames per second if you alternate between cards. Of course, cards with such speeds don't exist yet—right now, you'd only be able to do about 10 fps continuous when alternating—but IMO it is critical that Canon stop shipping these dog-slow SD and CF card slots and move to proper UHS-II slots so that their reader will stop being the main bottleneck.

Exactly!

50MP, improved AF, improved DR, improved noise, (near) equal high ISO performance and 10 fps (will require modes to support reduced image sizes in some cases though). That would be a dream camera and I will promise to be a good boy for a loooooong time

 

[vlim]

have you seen this ? false, fake, true, possible, idon't know, i just share...

http://filmmaker.com.br/2014/11/24/canon-5d-mark-iv-com-36mp-sera-apresentada-a-17-de-marco-de-2015-confira-as-caracteristicas-e-preco/

8)

 

[dash2k8]

All this skepticism on Canon only having only big MP and fast AF while Sony has better DR and low light. I agree that Canon deserves to be doubted after several hohum releases. But I'm ever the optimist and will hope that this 50MP sensor will not just be more pixels, but better DR and low light as well. As many have pointed out, Canon took a long time on this. If it were just a MP bump, this would have been available a year ago, so either Canon's R&D has gone down a bad path or this is really something worth looking forward to.

I stand by my assertion that other brands will have no choice but to follow if Canon markets a 50MP body first. Bragging rights aside, landscape/studio photogs with the best lenses will of course want a body that can deliver resolution. Just as Canon is now forced to catch up to Nikon in terms of DR, other brands will have to offer big MP bodies. Look at what the 5D2 did for video and everybody else followed suit despite all the "this is a gdamn photo camera I don't need it to take video" criticism. It's a constant leapfrogging in our industry that benefits us all.

 

[jrista]

Any word on whether this will be Bayer or Layered?

 

[BozillaNZ]

Any word on whether this will be Bayer or Layered?

Can't be a layered, if 3 layers 50MP, it is only a 16MP sensor in terms of real geometrical pixels, which is too low in today's standard.

Of course unless it a 50MP x 3 layers, which will be a big jaw dropper :

Or a 25MP x 2 layers? With 1 G layer in full resolution and 1 R/B layer in half resolution, but it would be very hard to selectively let both longer and shorter wave light pass through and stop a mid wave light or vice a versa.

 

[skoobey]

Considering their current pricing: I estimate 4500-6000$.