How can we improve on 5D3 to 5D4?

[sagittariansrock]

Have better specs than cameras from Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji and other brands.

Ditch CF and SD.

Go CFast that exceeds the 167MB/s limit of CF cards. SD cards should be the province of the 6D only.

While not as fast as the CFast, SDXC UHS-II cards can now reach 250MB/s write speeds.

 

[dolina]

While not as fast as the CFast, SDXC UHS-II cards can now reach 250MB/s write speeds.

SD form factor is suitable for consumer and space-constraint application.

CFast form factor is suitable for professional/prosumer.

I can see UHS-II cards being used on the successor of the 6D, 70D, 700d, etc but for 1D, 5D and 7D bodies it makes more sense to go CFast.

UHS-II is constrained to 312MB/s while CFast is 600MB/s.

 

[sagittariansrock]

While not as fast as the CFast, SDXC UHS-II cards can now reach 250MB/s write speeds.

SD form factor is suitable for consumer and space-constraint application.

CFast form factor is suitable for professional/prosumer.

I can see UHS-II cards being used on the successor of the 6D, 70D, 700d, etc but for 1D, 5D and 7D bodies it makes more sense to go CFast.

UHS-II is constrained to 312MB/s while CFast is 600MB/s.

Of course, whatever works for a professional, he or she will use it- these rigid boundaries are merely theoretical.
I am not very familiar with CFast. They seem to have been around for a while, why hasn't any major manufacturer started using it yet? What about the Nikon XQD cards?- I believe they can write as fast as 500MB/s (the newer version might be even faster)

 

[dolina]

Of course, whatever works for a professional, he or she will use it- these rigid boundaries are merely theoretical.
I am not very familiar with CFast. They seem to have been around for a while, why hasn't any major manufacturer started using it yet? What about the Nikon XQD cards?- I believe they can write as fast as 500MB/s (the newer version might be even faster)

CFast is the designated replacement for CF cards. CF cards are based on the PATA bus so are constrained to 167MB/s of UDMA 7 spec. Now CFast on the other hand uses the SATA bus that is currently limited to 600MB/s

4K resolution video cameras that currently use CFast are those from ARRI and Black Magic Design. ARRI Amira allows for up to 200fps vs the more standard 24p/30fps/60fps 1080p video we are more familiar with.

It is very much possible that we'll be seeing SLRs with CFast next year or 4 years from today. There is still some wiggle room with CF cards at say 1100x? Speeds of current CF cards top 1066x and are hella expensive.

 

[tomscott]

I would like to see a weight saving, not the physical size but 950g with a bat and card currently. Around 800g would be nice, i don't find it a problem but when your shooting all day with say the 70-200mm MKII its a 2.5kg camera.

I like the MP count but a small bump to 24 would be nice, standard stuff like uprated ISO maybe native 51,000 where 12,800 and 25,600 are more useable. Sort banding issues and maybe a little DR but to me its not its DR capability just the banding when you recover.

7-8FPS would put this camera in a really nice segment so it can be used as both sports camera and a run and gun event camera.

Might be interesting too see a crop mode, when your really in a pinch that uses a 1.6x version of the sensor. Not necessary but would be useful on the odd occasion.

TBH I love the 5DMKIII it will be very difficult to update it for stills.

Video theres a lot they could do, but I'm not a video shooter. If they added the AF functions of the 70D/7DMKII I would be more inclined to use it.

 

[Quest for Light]

~30MP sensor that is at least as good as sonys EXMOR
4K video (clean hdmi output)
M.2 port
~8 FPS
USB3
Ethernet
improved RGB + IR metering sensor
GPS
WIFI (paring via QR codes)
1/320s x-sync
300000 shutter actuations
optional electronic shutter for faster shutter times.

ps:
fully automated AFMA in camera. should be possible via contrast detection.
i have a patent for that in mind.. just have to fill it.

 

[lo lite]

This is a list of things I have found I'd like fixed or updated to in the 5D4 in retrospec of the 7DII release.

Stills Side

1. Blinky AF point
2. Linked AF point Spot Metering
3. 1/250th Sync speed bump. (1/500 would be even more sweet)
4. Built in RT transmitter
5. 7 FPS bump and improved buffer for dual card writing. (pitiful if you use the SD card slot currently.)
6. Dual CF or SD, just pick one or the other.
7. Add dual custom buttons like the 1Dx besides the lens mount.
8??. Did anyone notice the second curtain sync C-fn through PC sync missing in the mk3? I was positive this was on my 5Dc or the 5D2...
9. Make the Rate button do something else beside's rate and protect. :/
10. Slight screen bump in resolution/size and/or Touchscreen with optional toggle.
11. Lastly, Any ISO/IQ/Resolution bump is nice but these other features are much more important to me.
12. Glowing buttons like d4.

Video side.

1. DPAF
2. 4K
3. RAW Video Internally (if possible, Magic lantern will get it anyway.)
4. Peaking
5. Crop Mode 1080P

Thats all I could think of at this moment and if you'd like to add, please do.

I am hoping for the inclusion of the intelligent Tracking and Recognition system (iTR AF) which the 1D X has for a while and the 7DII now too. I hope that they don't leave it out in order to separate from the flagship line.

I also hope for 4K but I doubt it will come, because the Nikons don't have it and because I think, the CF card interface is to slow for a decent quality. I wonder when they'll replace the CF cards with something else. The CompactFlash Revision 6.0 (November 2010) added UltraDMA Mode 7 (167 MByte/s) but there is no successor to this, the Parallel-ATA standard, on which CF is based upon, is dead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDMA

 

[lo lite]

My list is not very long:

- Resolution (should be minimum 40MP)

No, no and no! I don't want a debacle like the Nikon D8x0 line was/is. 40MP would be an entirely different body line, maybe a revitalized 1Ds X. Better they keep the pixel count around the low 20s and improve on DR and high ISO.

- EC at auto ISO in manual mode

That one would be great indeed. And it can be done in software.

 

[tomscott]

+1 I really don't want a high MP camera, shooting a wedding at 1500 shots is 48gbs on the 5DMKIII and 100gbs on the D800, then after processing add that again just ridiculous.

24mp is more than enough for anything unless you are cropping hugely.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

What if the electronics could enable great DR, high ISO AND resolution at the same time? If it could, would you buy it?

... and for those who don't want 50+mpixel RAW to deal with, some in-camera RAW that down-rezed to whatever you felt you or your computer could handle...

If Sony announces and if Nikon adopts the 46mpixel FF sensor in January (much-rumored) and Canon does not come up to challenge Sony/Nikon on banner specs and sensor IQ, how many people (pros and avid enthusiasts alike) do you think will be dumping their Canon gear?

My list is not very long:

- Resolution (should be minimum 40MP)

No, no and no! I don't want a debacle like the Nikon D8x0 line was/is. 40MP would be an entirely different body line, maybe a revitalized 1Ds X. Better they keep the pixel count around the low 20s and improve on DR and high ISO...

 

[Quest for Light]

+1 I really don't want a high MP camera, shooting a wedding at 1500 shots is 48gbs on the 5DMKIII and 100gbs on the D800, then after processing add that again just ridiculous.

24mp is more than enough for anything unless you are cropping hugely.

when 24MP are enough for everything why do some people buy 50+ MP medium format cameras?

look beyond your horizon...

maybe the 5D MK4 can be a high megapixel camera with a special mode that chews out downsampled JPG´s and RAW´s for wedding photographer?
that would make both partys happy.

 

[Quest for Light]

And they don't even see them giving it basic low end features like focusing aids or zebras and such since those are 'ultra premium' features in Canon's mind still, apparently.

Hmmm, sounds like the Kodak disease.

damn right and then look what features other cameras offer.

canon seems to become an action shooter company only.

AF... as good as a precise and fast AF is.. at one point a better AF is wasted on some customers.
just as more MP are wasted on others.

for years canon has not done much (nothing) for the studio/landscape shooter.

i really hope that will change with the 5D MK4.

 

[danski0224]

- viewfinder that doesn't require your nose to be chopped off

That one is available now, as a 1DX

 

[Hillsilly]

It sounds like Canon has developed a nice 1" sensor. And given their reluctance to upgrade the 100-400mm, I think they should replace the FF sensor with the 1" sensor. With a crop factor of 2.7x, this means my 70-200 become a very sharp 190-540 and my 135mm becomes a 365/f2 lens. And one of those new Sigma's becomes a 405-1620mm.

Add in the 7dii's AF system and you've got a pretty formidable sports and wildlife package.

 

[Quest for Light]

It sounds like Canon has developed a nice 1" sensor.

that´s 99% a sony sensor also found in the RX100 models.

but yes they are at least clever to buy it from sony.... :

 

[moreorless]

The fps and AF and most basic body specs of the 7D2 are awesome. So it should be awesome at that core stuff.

But the lack of 4k and a new sensor process is worrisome for the future which is bad since I was always looking more towards the 5D4.

I'm no longer sure if the 5D4 will even be able to match Exmor or have 4k video. Everyone who has spoken with Canon reps is sounding super negative all of a sudden about the chances for even the 5D4 to get 4k video. I find that shocking and hard to believe. But I'm getting told that if I expect 4k on the 5D4 that I'm most likely setting myself up for disappointment as Canon still feels 4k is a super premium feature only fit for the $8000+ class buyer for the foreseeable future. And they don't even see them giving it basic low end features like focusing aids or zebras and such since those are 'ultra premium' features in Canon's mind still, apparently.

Sounds dumb to me, since a 5D3+ML would be better for video than the 5D4 then. The 5D4 would have DPAF and 60fps and that is it. It would take ML some time, if ever, to get RAW out of it and until then it would have worse video quality and video usability than the hacked 5D3.

And some feel that they may not even have an Exmor like sensor ready even for the 5D4 either.

I've purchased 6 different and 7 total Canon DSLR, but I'm getting a bad feeling it may be time to quit.
For the first time I'm really stating giving all sorts of other items from other brands really serious looks.
I can't believe how negative the impressions of where Canon may be going I'm hearing from people who went to the trade shows. They are all saying Canon seems to have lost the plot and afraid they will total drop the ball on the 5D4 (no real sensor improvements other than some more MP and no 4k or anything really interesting for video at all beyond DPAF ). Some said Canon told them forget 4k or any video usability features unless the market and users literally force them into it with extreme demand made clear. They insist all that stuff it for high-end people owner and far beyond DSLRs. I hope it was just reps trying to push current stuff and some misinterpreting going on. But even the guy who works for a different Canon division who met some DSLR guys said that was his impression too.

Canon might I spose be keeping 4K for the 1DX update but really I'm not sure I see the logic to that. I'm guessing the 1Dc may have been forced on Canon purely because the 1DX was the only camera able to cope with 4k(cooling?) but I'm not sure I see that body as being an classic all rounder.

They might also have been some way down the line with 5D4 developed by the time 4K started to crop up on lower end bodies but it does also seem to me that Canon reps seemed geared to be negative. Not sure what the logic would be there, perhaps not wanting to build up expectations to give more positivity around release?

 

[123Photog]

I 100% agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

The next 5D has to offer something for the Landscape, Potrait and Studio crowd.

 

[Orangutan]

And they don't even see them giving it basic low end features like focusing aids or zebras and such since those are 'ultra premium' features in Canon's mind still, apparently.

Hmmm, sounds like the Kodak disease.

damn right and then look what features other cameras offer.

canon seems to become an action shooter company only.

AF... as good as a precise and fast AF is.. at one point a better AF is wasted on some customers.
just as more MP are wasted on others.

for years canon has not done much (nothing) for the studio/landscape shooter.

While I would like to see these improvements, remember that Canon's marketing department has done a great job of anticipating overall consumer demand. I think that tells us that the current market for the 5-series is wedding/event photographers and amateurs. For both of these groups, it's far more important to increase the keeper-rate than to give the studio or landscape specialist a tool for producing images under specific conditions.

As tempting as it is to criticize Canon for their lagging low-ISO sensors, it's equally valid to criticize all the other manufacturers for their lagging AF and other features. Nikon seems to have found the "truth" with the D810's AF system.

 

[123Photog]

And they don't even see them giving it basic low end features like focusing aids or zebras and such since those are 'ultra premium' features in Canon's mind still, apparently.

Hmmm, sounds like the Kodak disease.

damn right and then look what features other cameras offer.

canon seems to become an action shooter company only.

AF... as good as a precise and fast AF is.. at one point a better AF is wasted on some customers.
just as more MP are wasted on others.

for years canon has not done much (nothing) for the studio/landscape shooter.

While I would like to see these improvements, remember that Canon's marketing department has done a great job of anticipating overall consumer demand. I think that tells us that the current market for the 5-series is wedding/event photographers and amateurs. For both of these groups, it's far more important to increase the keeper-rate than to give the studio or landscape specialist a tool for producing images under specific conditions.

As tempting as it is to criticize Canon for their lagging low-ISO sensors, it's equally valid to criticize all the other manufacturers for their lagging AF and other features. Nikon seems to have found the "truth" with the D810's AF system.

But wouldn´t you say the AF is good enough now, when they include a slightly enhanced 1DX AF in the 5D MK4?

So canon could focus on other things, make the rest of the customers happy?

 

[lo lite]

What if the electronics could enable great DR, high ISO AND resolution at the same time? If it could, would you buy it?

... and for those who don't want 50+mpixel RAW to deal with, some in-camera RAW that down-rezed to whatever you felt you or your computer could handle...

If Sony announces and if Nikon adopts the 46mpixel FF sensor in January (much-rumored) and Canon does not come up to challenge Sony/Nikon on banner specs and sensor IQ, how many people (pros and avid enthusiasts alike) do you think will be dumping their Canon gear?

My list is not very long:

- Resolution (should be minimum 40MP)

No, no and no! I don't want a debacle like the Nikon D8x0 line was/is. 40MP would be an entirely different body line, maybe a revitalized 1Ds X. Better they keep the pixel count around the low 20s and improve on DR and high ISO...

A resolution around 24MP would be enough for me. Higher resolution also means bigger files which I don't want. And what would I gain? More details (nice!) but for those you also need much better lenses otherwise your files are just bigger but not more detailed. Do you really want to pay 4 grands for a 50mm that resolves 50MP? http://www.zeiss.de/camera-lenses/de_de/camera_lenses/otus/otus1455.html And even more for a zoom lens. And how big and heavy those would have to be …

When do you really need such a resolution? Maybe as a landscape photographer this would be nice to have. But that's a niche. Please don't sacrifice a good all-round camera for this!

Btw. You might be too young to know this: Everything comes at a price. To think it would be possible that the electronics could enable great DR, high ISO and resolution at the same time is outright stupid. There are laws of physics. You always have to make compromises, you can never have it all. Life will teach you that.