I got defeated :(

[scottkinfw]

Congratulations on your camera! For me, the #1 thing missing on the 5DIV is a flippy screen. I don't know if I'd buy a 5DIV-priced camera if they had one, but I certainly won't until they do.

On the bright side, the user satisfaction of everyone I've known who has owned a 5DIV has been very high. I can't say the same about Sony A7RII -- there are always grumblings -- and I don't know anyone with a D850 yet.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

Specs do matter, but diminishing returns from technical advancements are also a reality.

In actual usage, I think an A7RII is horrible. Technical enhancements be damned, pick a pro lens, and the body feels totally unbalanced -- even a 16-35/2.8 -- with the grip being god-awful. The camera actually feels really nice with the smaller kit lenses. But in reality, a top end lens will do a lot more for you than anything else, and that's not going to be short, light, or have a tiny diameter.

I won't lie, I'm jealous of a lot of D850 features, as I am of certain A7RII features (4k video not being among them, lol). However, things will change at some point, and it will be the other way around. And, I'm still very happy with my Canon glass, much more so than I would be with Nikon or Sony glass. And at the end of the day, an A7RII gives me much fewer keepers with wildlife, and I doubt the D850 would mean significantly more or fewer keepers, or, really, much different photos.

The things I need to improve with my hobby have nothing to do with the camera -- mostly it's field skills to get closer to the subject and to get better composed shots, and well, more time to become more practiced.

Well said. I was humbled years ago on a trip to Denali. At the time, I took out a Panasonic point and shoot and grabbed a shot (the same shot) as my Canon 50D with 400 5.6L, and the results were a kick in the teeth!

I have spent for me what is a lot of money on lenses, way more on the camera bodies, and of course, lenses last while bodies come and go. When I look at my bad shots, it has NEVER been due to the camera or lens, I have to take the credit for that. Better specs when cameras are this good may only be appreciable on the bench, or not. New features may be great, but not appealing to all.

I guess my point is that we can't get everything we wish for.

Scott

 

[unfocused]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

 

[Mikehit]

+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.

If preferring not having to change a menu preset counts as a 'failing' then I'd say Canon has got it pretty much spot on.
A crazier one for me is always shipping cameras with 'shoot with out card' set to 'yes'.

 

[sdsr]

I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy

So why buy a 5Div in the first place? If your 5Diii/6D needed an upgrade because they were wearing out in some way, and if the specs of a 5Div were disappointing, why not just buy another 5Diii/6D and save the money? And if the 5Div makes you sad, why not return it? I suspect that the number of photos that are better because they were taken with a 5Div rather than a 5Diii is trivially small....

(I prefer using the Sony a7rII only because I prefer mirrorless, and I prefer that largely because that makes manual focusing much easier; just about any camera you can buy today can generate superb images.)

 

[Pookie]

This is the problem with this forum... it's not based in reality.

On one side you have hobbyist who ABSOLUTELY need to have the utmost/newest lens, camera, etc... and when they get it all else was trash before. It is their pride and joy, they will show you how they spent their money and why you need to also. "This thing is better than sliced bread...", blue goo will save the world and make me a better photographer. I NEED IS on everything because x, y, and z. Fanboy die-hards that care more about having the newest best tech than actually learning to enjoy photography.

The other side of the equation here is the "Crippled Junk"... Canon screwed me!!! I can't take pictures in my closet with the lens cap on without getting all this damn noise. Or why can't I lift shadows 28 stops so I can see into the shadow of that canyon while shooting a sunrise... Nikon, Sony and ... all do it better but why can't Canon.

Reality... and I've said it before. The 5D4 is a good camera. Is it the best in the world no. Is it better than the 5D3, slightly. Should you dump you 5D(whatever) in the trash and sell of your child to buy the latest and greatest... hardly. It's just another camera body. Do I love the 5D3, yes, great camera. Do I feel it is the best in the world... hardly. Pick any brand, any model and you can find something to love and something to hate. I own lots of cameras, lots of makers... each has a spot in my bag not because it the very best but because they provide something I want, not need. Nothing about this is life and death.

Where you would better serve yourself is to stop the chase for IS on everything, stop worrying about DR, stop thinking if this lens just had this coating or... Grab your camera, whatever it is and go outside...take photos and enjoy yourself. Nothing you buy or own will make you a better photographer. They are just tools, the real artistry is in how you use what you can't buy...

 

[CanonGuy]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

 

[Doug Brock]

Canon system - win for me

Busy week for me - Theatre headshots on Tuesday, Soccer/senior night on Thursday evening, HS football- first round playoffs Friday night, swim team at conference meet on Saturday, two senior sessions on Sunday, and Soccer district playoffs this evening. Lots of challenging lighting at the high school events but my 5DIV and 5DIII were up to the job, letting me respond quickly to changes as lighting and activity shifted through each event. My 24-70 f/2.8L II on one hip and either the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II or 100-400II on the other hip, the Canon gear with its performance and interface didn't get in my way but helped keep me a happy (but exhausted) photographer.

Canon provides a great system and I love it. Would I consider changing to another company? Certainly not anytime soon! Just considering learning new menus and new button layouts and action, and even the seemingly minor issues of worrying about different batteries between models - shudder. My experience and comfort with the Canon system is worth a lot to me!

(Oh, I should mention another factor - support. CPS support for cleaning and repairs has been a great value to me and is another significant factor in considering a camera system.)

 

[DaviSto]

I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

While I can understand your annoyance, I think you should have seen this coming. Whatever your intention, it could easily be foreseen that your original post and follow-up were going to unsettle and irritate many users of this forum. And ... well ... some people got unsettled and irritated and let you know that in their responses. It just goes with the territory.

Again, with this being the forum that it is, if anybody from Canon Marketing ever does take it upon themselves to skim this thread, their general impression is going to be that Canon probably got the 5Div about right on balance. That's not the message that you wanted to get across.

I think you would be better off writing directly to Canon explaining your disappointment and the specific reasons for it. That way your message wouldn't get lost in all the noise (or fairly satisfied murmurings).

 

[neuroanatomist]

I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product.

Have you considered actually telling Canon —directly— how you feel? Write them. Call them. Posting in a forum that's completely independent from Canon, and 'hoping that someone from Canon will see how you feel' is like having 'I will win the lottery' as a retirement savings plan. Plus, you already told Canon how you really feel...by giving them $3K for a camera.

And if you actually did want Canon to read what you wrote, well...remember those grade school standardized tests where they presented you with a short paragraph and then had you pick the best title? I'm not sure how you did on those, but if, " I got defeated " is the best you can do here...I'm guessing you were a drag on your school's overall scoring.

But, wait...you didn't just say that you hope Canon will see how you feel, but how their customers feel. Looking at posts from people other than you, generally I think to the extent that Canon would learn anything from this thread (which, as we've established, is pretty damn unlikely), they'll learn that the 5DIV is a success.

So, well done...and I repeat: LOL. :

 

[ahsanford]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

"I was walking down the street and this guy had a better camera than me and told me that his had 4K and and 6 more MP and had 7% more DR and 2 more fps and his pictures were 23% better and all those words hurt my feelings."

-- said by no one ever

 

[neuroanatomist]

3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that.

 

[unfocused]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU...

And you aren't getting any. So I guess we are all happy.

...I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product...

If that's why you are here, you are sadly mistaken about how forums work. As others have pointed out, if you want to communicate with Canon why not do it directly? If you are such a successful photographer, surely you must be a Platinum CPS member. Have you tried to contact them?

...And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion?

You are not self-absorbed because we have a difference of opinion. You are self-absorbed because you think your opinion is so important that you started a thread to whine and because, as Tom Scott said, it's pretty much the epitome of a first world problem.

...3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

I actually was feeling a little bad saying you seemed self-absorbed. But then, reading the above comment pretty much killed any empathy I had.

Honestly, I did feel bad enough to go back and re-read your initial comment and your responses to others and I cannot for the life of me see what your complaint is.

I can find no specifics about any weaknesses in the 5DIV. No mention of what it cannot do that you need for your work...just some vague complaining about how you think it is somehow behind competitors' products. The impression is certainly that it simply isn't "whiz bang" enough for your tastes.

I'm actually kind of stunned that a working professional would feel this way. I understand enthusiasts who have a fascination with cameras and feel the need to have the newest gizmo. But, usually professional photographers are focused on the results, rather than the technology.

A sincere suggestion: In the future, when you feel the need to rant on a forum, you might get a bit more sympathy if you provide some specifics and explain how it affects your shooting, rather than simply go off on a tangent.

 

[Don Haines]

It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

For example, I go a 6D2..... I wish it was better, I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control, yet at the same time I can confidently state that it was the best camera out there for my requirements.

 

[Mikehit]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

I am still not sure what the D850 does that you can't do with the 5D4 - all I know is you think the D850 is a 'better camera' but you have not explained why. On the spec sheet the D850 has a wider set of functions but what do those mean to you that make you so frustrated with Canon? If you are looking at specs you don't use but think it shows how little canon care about you, then that is not a position I understand nor can I sympathise with it.
If staying with a brand made me so frustrated and made me feel so defeated as you say you are, I would sell up and take the hit because to me saving the money would not be worth all the years of looking at my images permanently thinking 'if only I had bought Nikon...'.

But I agree with others: that in buying the D850 you are at best saying 'Canon are doing things right' and at worst you are saying 'the differences are not worth the money'.

 

[Mikehit]

...3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

I actually was feeling a little bad saying you seemed self-absorbed. But then, reading the above comment pretty much killed any empathy I had.

Honestly, I did feel bad enough to go back and re-read your initial comment and your responses to others and I cannot for the life of me see what your complaint is.

I can find no specifics about any weaknesses in the 5DIV. No mention of what it cannot do that you need for your work...just some vague complaining about how you think it is somehow behind competitors' products. The impression is certainly that it simply isn't "whiz bang" enough for your tastes.

I'm actually kind of stunned that a working professional would feel this way. I understand enthusiasts who have a fascination with cameras and feel the need to have the newest gizmo. But, usually professional photographers are focused on the results, rather than the technology.

A sincere suggestion: In the future, when you feel the need to rant on a forum, you might get a bit more sympathy if you provide some specifics and explain how it affects your shooting, rather than simply go off on a tangent.

Adding to my previous comment just posted - if 3k is 'nothing' then you can surely afford to switch systems? If you hadn't bought the 5DIV by instead bought the D850, would you 'lose' 5k on your lenses? Probably not. And I say 5k only because if 3k is 'nothing' then my guess is it would take at least 5k to start biting.

 

[Jopa]

Happy trolling and anti-trolling folks!

Nice to see so many fresh comments around this topic because the forum frankly was getting boring

CanonGuy is getting an award troll of the day today. Mazel tov!

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

The problem with specs is they can't take a photo. They are important, but manufacturers conveniently leave out the gotchas to make it appear as though you have a wonderful feature, but it has limits, sometimes limits that make the camera unusable for my usage.

Then there are the missing items that they don't tell you. For example, a camera may have live view, but its so slow as to be unusable, or it can only be viewed at very low resolution which makes it useless for manual focusing.

So, read impartial user reviews to see just how well those specs actually work, and hopefully find a few of the limitations that are not given.

I purchased a new high end camera based on specs, and found about the ones they did not promote, which made the camera useless to me. The feature work fine on even the cheapest Canon DSLR.

I'm sure that the D850 is a great camera, but I've learned that specs are just a start, you need to make sure that a unfamiliar camera will work they way you intend to use it.

One of the nice things about the 5D MK IV is its fast DPAF in liveview, if you are not shooting fast moving subjects, it can focus almost any lens perfectly without a need for AFMA. That can be really great for some 3rd party lenses that tend to have focus accuracy issues. There is a drawback there as well, precise location of the exact AF spot is not possible. Its good 90% of the time, but I find it a problem for close up product photos, I need to tweak the focus manually to get the exact spot I need in focus. Thats another example of specs that don't tell the whole story.

 

[unfocused]

It is very possible to buy your Canon camera, yet at the same time to wish that it had other features and different specs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

For example, I go a 6D2..... I wish it was better, I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control, yet at the same time I can confidently state that it was the best camera out there for my requirements.

I don't believe anyone would disagree with that, Don. I think the problem here is the tone of self-pity coupled with the complete lack of any specificity in the complaint. In just a single sentence "I wish it had a bit more dynamic range, I really wish that they could come up with a good WiFi application for remote control..." you provided two clear examples of the 6DII's weaknesses and how they can affect your use of the camera. Had the OP taken the time to spell out what his complaints were and what the impact is on his shooting, he might have garnered a little less contempt.

The people on this forum are not blind to the weaknesses of any camera. Indeed, there would be little need for the forum if we all felt our current cameras were flawless.

 

[ahsanford]

I don't believe anyone would disagree with that, Don. I think the problem here is the tone of self-pity coupled with the complete lack of any specificity in the complaint.

If they don't type a reason, one can only conclude they believe the D850 is better because it has bigger numbers -- more MP, higher framerate, higher DXO score, etc.

I cannot wait for folks to be shocked and devastated when yet another year goes by and the EXIF data of WPP awards shows that the best pics continue to be taken on antiquated sensors with modestly-spec'd bodies.

- A

 

[neuroanatomist]

I cannot wait for folks to be shocked and devastated when yet another year goes by and the EXIF data of WPP awards shows that the best pics continue to be taken on antiquated sensors with modestly-spec'd bodies.

Oh, Sony...where art thou?