If the 5DS n 5DSr are 7D MII chips at 1.6 ....

[KBStudio]

can we infer that the performance of the new cameras will be similar to the 7D MII if you stitched two files together to achieve a full frame file of the same dimensions and size as the specs suggest?

If true, this means one can judge the IQ by comparing the 7D MII to the other options at a 1.6x crop of a full framer sensor.

 

[unfocused]

No. You cannot infer that. Not the same sensor or processor. Not dual pixel. Until it shows up on the street it's silly to infer anything.

 

[mackguyver]

One thing you might be able to consider is lens performance on the 7DII may be similar to the 5Ds given the pixel pitch. It will definitely show more aberrations than the 5DIII and that's why Brian over at the Digital Picture has started testing various lenses on the 7DII. While it's not going to be the same, it does give you a rough idea of how well lenses are likely to perform on the 5Ds. By that, I mean a lens that is performs well on the 7DII is likely to perform well on the 5Ds, and vice versa. Inferring or extrapolating beyond that isn't possible.

 

[IglooEater]

One would think that if the 5ds(r) had dpaf, that canon would have said so in the press release, as it is one of Canon's big bragging rights right now. Thus I would assume that it does not. That's not necessarily a bad thing as the 5ds is NOT aimed at video and doesn't need dpaf. Not having the double pixels should mean less circuitry and more pixel area, so maybe very, very slightly better iq. I would like to hear from the experts as to whether or not that stands true. Do micro lenses make up for the circuitry, DOES dpaf have more circuitry? Someone please correct me..

 

[Sporgon]

No. You cannot infer that. Not the same sensor or processor. Not dual pixel. Until it shows up on the street it's silly to infer anything.

I think that you would get an idea of the resolution, or to be more precise, the output image size. On the actual resolution, because you are shooting the picture in smaller sections ( with the same focal length lens as FF because you are going to be same distance, framing etc after completing the stitch), technique in terms of stability is going to be much more forgiving than actually using a 5ds, so you could get a false sense of security.

 

[KBStudio]

please note George Lepps comments on his test of the 5DS n R. He refers to the 7D MII.

 

[tron]

7DMkII's sensor covers only the central area of 5Ds sensor. Since the lenses perform worse at the edges and the corners of the photo we can expect worse performance than that of 7DMkII...

 

[KBStudio]

I am trying to figure out he DR, color depth, and SNR by looking at the 7D MII and realizing the only difference will be the size of the chip.

 

[Sporgon]

I am trying to figure out he DR, color depth, and SNR by looking at the 7D MII and realizing the only difference will be the size of the chip.

I think that in practice the only thing you will find different from the 5DIII is poorer high ISO performance, slower frame rate and larger output size. I think for the vast, vast majority of uses you wont see any difference in resolution per se.

 

[ritholtz]

DPReview added new comparison tool for DR comparison. They have 70D, D5500, E-M2 so far. Probably they will add 7d2 to list as well to compare with this stress test.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos70d&attr144_1=nikon_d5500&attr144_2=canon_eos70d&attr144_3=nikon_d5500&attr146_0=100_0&attr146_1=100_0&attr146_2=100_3&attr146_3=100_3&normalization=full&widget=205&x=0.7997664703549298&y=0.6968831774511753

 

[Deleted member 7828]

My question (and what could ultimately be the deciding factor) is whether you would be able to squeeze more detailed, sharper images from 5DS/R crops than from native 7D2 shots...nevermind the other stuff like ISO. For example, the 5D3 (and 6D) can pull out so much more detail at 100% than a 7D/70D can. Given that the 5DS is FF, all other things equal, I would be curious as to whether a 20MP image cropped (NOT downsized!!) from a 5DS/R still will show more resolution at a given distance than a native 20MP 7D2/70D shot. Guess the jury will still be out on that one.

 

[KBStudio]

Here is a first hand account of the 5DS and 5DSr-"The dynamic range when working on the files in Canon's DPP and Photoshop CC 2014 was quite good and pretty much matches my EOS 7D MKII. I did not use any high ISOs on this shoot, but I expect it to be similar to the 7D MK II." George Lepp of Canon Explorers.

If you take the 7D MII chip and multiple it by 1.6 you will find the size for the 5DS's chip are almost identical. Again, this would tend to imply that one could evaluate certain chip performance characteristics. As the only real difference will be the chips size and thus resolution but not much else. So evaluating the performance of a 7D MII may help estimate what the new 5DS might be like. However, the "R" version will tend to be sharper only.

 

[kkittylin]

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[FEBS]

No. You cannot infer that. Not the same sensor or processor. Not dual pixel. Until it shows up on the street it's silly to infer anything.

Above is the only correct answer.

It's impossible to compare the 7D2 with the 5Ds, as for the moment we don't know if the 5Ds would have DPAF. If so then you might look at the 7D2, however the 7D2 uses mostly the center of the lens, so there the 7D2 has an advantage and we can't tell anything on the edge performance for the 5Ds. If 5Ds has no dpaf what would we compare then? A dpaf system with a non dpaf system for which the megapixel count just matches, so that will tell us nothing.

We just have to be patience and wait for the first test results from production devices.

 

[K]

If this inference could be made, then it would stand to reason that the 5DS would also do 16000 ISO like the 7D2.

It does not, it is 6400 native.

So there are differences.

The only other possibility is that our resident sensor and dynamic range experts are wrong, and that a camera's ISO and DR can be "tuned" to produce better results in some parts of the spectrum at the expense of other areas of the spectrum.

If this is the case, then the 5DS has a sensor capable of higher ISO - but Canon chose to limit high ISO to give the best landscape and studio image quality instead.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

FWIW, Imaging Resource now has low- and high-ISO studio samples from a pre-production 5DS R, and compares it to 5D3, MF (Pentax), Nikon D810 and the 7D2:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5ds-r/canon-5ds-rA.HTM#HIGHRES

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Thoughts on the IR results...

At base ISO: Impressive levels of detail - even against Pentax, the 5DS is holding its own (but of course, at 35mm there's really no competing with the larger sensor size of MF).

At high ISO: the 5DS seems about on par with the 7D2 when viewed at 100%, maybe even slightly worse - however, when you downsize the 5DS file to 20MP, the 5DS wins out. Against the 5D3, the 5DS seems about one stop worse in high ISO (but pulls out significantly more detail, which may make up for some or all the difference for some shooters). And against the D810, the D810 image is a bit cleaner - but the 5DS seems to produce a finer grain which may clean up nicer in post...

- Took a look at all the studio files throughout the ISO range...good detail retention up to 800...at 1600 there is noticeable degradation...and by 3200 you've lost most, if not all, of the fine details. At 6400 I actually didn't notice much additional detail loss, but of course there is more noise (grain). Not bad by itself, but for a FF sensor it's definitely a step backward. Downsize the 50MP files down to the 5D3's 22MP and you still get more noise, but you also get a sharper overall image.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

No. You cannot infer that. Not the same sensor or processor. Not dual pixel. Until it shows up on the street it's silly to infer anything.

Well, as 'silly' as it was to infer such a thing as the OP did, the first measurements make it seem very much like a 7D2 sensor but at FF size and with a different CFA array.

 

[PureClassA]

Why is there any question about DPAF on these cameras? Did I miss something? Canon has unloaded all the specs on us and no DPAF mentioned anywhere. It's not on there.

And no, we don't and won't know anything concrete until we have a production model in hand.

I took a ton of really great shots on my 7D original. Hell I took a ton of great stuff on my T2i with an older 28-200mm zoom. Based on the flood of pre-orders, I'd say a lot of people are very excited by this camera

 

[can0nfan2379]

People are talking about noise and then downsampling to say 20MP. For me if I'm buying this camera I'm buying it to make high DPI 30x45" prints. Downsampling is not an option to clean up the image.