Industry News: Sony officially announces the Alpha A7s III

davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
302
445
I film a lot of protest and political content, the ability to do foto and video is indespensible as a freelancer. I sell footage and go into places most don't so to have both is a must. Here in Minneapolis I was out shooting and my 16-35 and 1dc were hit by rubber bullets, amazing the lens was ok and so was the body. They were not point blank but there was a blunt object that hit them. There is no denying that there is a place and time for all sorts of cameras but the low light of this a7 camera will allow for cleaner and more usable content. While out filming protests I witnessed people tying to steal news crews big cameras and people tried taking mine aswell but a slr style body is something tou can actually hold and run with if you need to. Will a sony take a betting like a 1d? probably not but to have both is a great thing. on a side not all these great tools coming out we never could have dreamed of, there is often so much anger and shit talk from our tribalism that we dont actually look and the genius ehind the tech. if you shoot sony thats great, if you shoot canon, thats great too. we should stop always fighting and just start capturing and using and adapting the tools that best suit us. and here is a link of what i shoot.
https://www.fox9.com/news/the-fall-of-the-third-precinct-a-timeline-of-events
I totally appreciate the PJ/ENG use cases you and some other folks brought up. I guess at the end of the day, any alternatives in terms of form factor are going to have pretty big drawbacks. Thanks, all!
 

davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
302
445
I should not have said ideal hybrid. 12MP is not enough for stills to which I agree wholeheartedly, but Canon didn't really have to throw 8K and everything else in the R5. It could have settled for less than 45MP and balanced the video specs a bit more to achieve a bit more runtime while still getting enough stills resolution.
Gerald Undone had a really good point about the stills on this camera. If you need a poster frame, or a BTS shot, or just shooting for IG this camera is great. A few extra niche uses as well, e.g. astro. 12 MP is enough if you're just asked to get a few group shots, an environmental portrait, etc. Just like the R5 is great if you're being asked to shoot a quick BTS interview video or a cinemagraph for IG, etc.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
May 16, 2020
136
228
One Critical question about Sony a7s III is why there is a switch to use regarding overheating? If you turn on switch the a7s III will shut down after 20min in 4k, while if you turn it off it will run until the battery dies. But in the latter case the heat will get up in a very highly dangerous numbers! So the MAIN question here regarding reliability is if the camera will survive after numerous recordings for a long time while the switch is off. If its going to destroy the camera after a while, then what's the point here? just to surpass recording times of R5 or any other camera but at the same time to put the camera itself in danger? or am I missing something else here?
This is a good point. We do not know about the long term reliability of the A7SIII. If they start bricking after the warranty is up, that's a big oof.
 

Baron_Karza

EOS RP
Feb 17, 2019
212
215
This is a good point. We do not know about the long term reliability of the A7SIII. If they start bricking after the warranty is up, that's a big oof.
I posted similar point elsewhere. There was a video review where the A7s3 overheated and shut down sooner than R5 (outdoors, but not indoors) and the guy was measuring the body's temps. The Sony got higher. Making me think the Sony will over time will go into permanent failure and require replacement/repair.

So maybe sony's new heat transfer management is...just let it get hotter before shutting down? ;)

OK, found the video:
 
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KirkD

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 23, 2017
76
68
Canada
kirkdurston.wixsite.com
Just watched Jared's comparison between the video on the R5 and this Sony. The Sony did not overheat, period. However, when comparing the two video results side by side, the Canon was noticeably sharper right out of the camera, and he noted this as well. You can see for yourself at the 19:50 mark in the video
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
May 16, 2020
136
228
Just watched Jared's comparison between the video on the R5 and this Sony. The Sony did not overheat, period. However, when comparing the two video results side by side, the Canon was noticeably sharper right out of the camera, and he noted this as well. You can see for yourself at the 19:50 mark in the video
That was my observation too. Regardless, the image quality on all of them is fine without any comparisons. Anyone who trashes any camera at this point for image quality is delusional or just being a fanboy without any objectivity.

I also recommend taking any of these youtube video reviews with a grain of salt. Many are shameless fanboy/fangirls of brands so the bias will creep into the reviews and even into these tests. They can even edit it so that side by side comparisons may favor one over the other. It is strange because I've seen various tests and all have yielded different results. The best endorsement comes from a couple of known Canon users, Potato Jet and Matti Haapoja. They are video/cinema first so the camera absolutely caters to them, but they rave about the A7SIII so unless they sold their souls to Sony, you know the A7SIII is a great camera for video.

I won't be getting the Sony and never considered it as all my lenses are Canon. Still patiently waiting for the R5. But I can appreciate what a great job Sony did in making a camera for video-centric users. In the hands of talented creators, any of these cameras would produce amazing results. Look at what Armando Ferreira was able to do with the R5.

For the Sony A7SIII, Phillip Bloom wins.
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
291
105
I posted similar point elsewhere. There was a video review where the A7s3 overheated and shut down sooner than R5 (outdoors, but not indoors) and the guy was measuring the body's temps. The Sony got higher. Making me think the Sony will over time will go into permanent failure and require replacement/repair.

So maybe sony's new heat transfer management is...just let it get hotter before shutting down? ;)

OK, found the video:
The Sony likely got hotter because it transfers more heat through the body, hence why it was more effected by ambient temperature changes.

The Canon doesn't have much difference in record times whether inside or outside. But that's also likely why it has an astronomically long recovery time.
 
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DBounce

EOS 90D
May 3, 2016
129
196
Rolling shutter is misleading. I can show you great rolling shutter on a smaller sensor like a ZV1/RX100 or a larger FF sensor that is line skipped. I can even show you great rolling shutter by dropping the bit depth as well sacrificing DR. If you look at sensor spec sheets, some of them will detail this. The 1DX3 can ramp up rolling shutter performance in 4K60, but drop down to 30ms in 24/30p.

Honestly, digital cameras now have gotten so spec-laden that you have to study things that have nothing to do with photography or cinematography just to get a handle on how it all works. Nobody even tries to understand or talk about sensor equivalence or DoF anymore because we are being thrown with a million more things to worry about like cooling and readouts. Even a stills shooter has to understand subsampling now because HEIF is based on HEVC..
Only thing is, Dan Watson was shooting in the HQ mode. The R5 has a new sensor with extremely fast readout. Sorry to tell you, it’s legitimately faster than the Sony... so far less jello effect. Near as I can tell, the only real issue with the R5 is overheat. But we know now that issue also exists for the Sony. And that’s an interesting point. Sony handed out the A7S3’s like candy on Halloween. They apparently gave the YouTube influences free trips all over the place so that they would give good reviews. Only Dan is speaking up about the overheating on the Sony... and Sony is totally silent on the issue... just like the last time their cameras were overheating. That should be pretty telling.

In any case I’m getting both. If I find I’m gravitating towards one all the time and the other is a paperweight, I’ll just sell it. No big deal really.
 

derpderp

Pixel Peeper
Jan 31, 2020
149
178
I pre-ordered one. It suits my style of hybrid shooting quite well. I always felt the ideal hybrid MILC was one with a balanced set of specs. Don't need RAW, don't want high-bitrates, don't need 8K. When I need those specs, I have my cine camera along with the budget and crew to support it. Here is what I like about shooting video on Sony, which continues with the S3.

- Single interface for audio. No need for dangling 3.5mm cables
- Dual card recording for redundancy and no need for new media immediately. My V90 UHS-II cards continue to work and I only need to carry 1 type of media.
- Base ISO and Max ISO. Many event halls, etc. have poor lighting which you cannot always control
- No overheating for obvious reasons
- White balance sensor to prevent rapid shifts when subjects fill the frame
- Large EVF for framing outdoors when a sunhood over the lcd doesn't always work.
- Selectable S&Q highspeed in base frame rate or actual frame rate to include audio which is sometimes imperative when editing a cinematic highlight and a long edit w/ sound. It's also easier in post to quickly identify all of your high speed clips and group them separately.
- Real-time AF (I never upgraded to the RIV, but I have a A6600 and ZV1 which are similar)
- Great battery life. I hated the FW50 batteries, but a bit more than 2 FZ100 batteries gets me through a very long day. I don't think the LP-E6NH last as long, but the Canon's draw more power as the Wh are almost identical.

In other areas, some reviews show ~13 stops on a test which is better than the R5 at ~11. The rolling shutter seems to be a bit better on the R5, but it wasn't apparent which modes were compared. Line skipped will probably readout faster than the 1:1 on the Sony but at a big cost of IQ. But at the end of the day, the Sony doesn't have 45MP and isn't great for stills. I would need two bodies to cover video (S3) and stills (RIV).

It's all a mess of compromises... :p
you sounds like you're pretty happy with sony cameras. makes me wonder why you're still here.
 
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derpderp

Pixel Peeper
Jan 31, 2020
149
178
Canon don't need to do anything, the R5 and the sleeper R6 are going to be hits with primarily photographers, Sony look like they have done a very accomplished incremental upgrade in the α7S III, but it is overwhelmingly a video camera and less a hybrid.

I don't see any competition at all if you know what market you are in the choice is pretty clear. Unfortunately for Canon most YouTube personalities and social media influencers are in the Sony video centric market, they shoot video and don't care about stills resolution over 1080px instagram posts, but I do not believe they represent the market in general. I have zero need for an α7S III, I will be getting an R5.

Indeed even comparing the α7S III and R5 is intrinsically biased (one way or the other) as their feature sets are as diametrically opposed as possible. Compare the R5 to the α7R IV, compare the R6 to the α7 III, truthfully Canon haven't pitched a video centric hybrid in the α7S III market.
As was the case with the EOS R, most of those influencers would jump on the Sony hypetrain but then realise after a while that Canon was actually the one who delivered the better overall product. The EOS R5 is the better camera in every respect except for capturing long form 4K videos.
 
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nickvera

I'm New Here
Dec 29, 2012
11
0
Only thing is, Dan Watson was shooting in the HQ mode. The R5 has a new sensor with extremely fast readout. Sorry to tell you, it’s legitimately faster than the Sony... so far less jello effect. Near as I can tell, the only real issue with the R5 is overheat. But we know now that issue also exists for the Sony. And that’s an interesting point. Sony handed out the A7S3’s like candy on Halloween. They apparently gave the YouTube influences free trips all over the place so that they would give good reviews. Only Dan is speaking up about the overheating on the Sony... and Sony is totally silent on the issue... just like the last time their cameras were overheating. That should be pretty telling.

In any case I’m getting both. If I find I’m gravitating towards one all the time and the other is a paperweight, I’ll just sell it. No big deal really.
Dan Watson was the only one who said the R5 had less rolling shutter. That is complete rubbish. The videos weren't even synced correctly because his set up was not done correctly. When whip panning the cameras were looking at slight different angles. He should have stacked the cameras on top of one another with slight tilts. Every other test shows the Canon R5 has more rolling shutter. Though the performance is still great for a 45mp sensor. I think the Canon R series are great photo cameras. Video cameras, not really. I think the overheating thing is a big issue and makes the camera unusable on long form shoots. But for quick grabs, its great! Also Dan has his own biases, I wouldn't really look at his testing as final word. You should always do your own tests. Nonetheless in three years the cameras will be old machines XD
 

mariosk1gr

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 4, 2019
58
43
Gerald Undone what a dishonesty man!! OMG I wonder why this so much hatred about R5! How a reviewer can cause so much faulty opinions regarding a product... he really deserves a lawsuit from Canon. He points all weaknesses of R5 and he even mentions that you shouldn't buy it even as a hybrid shooter!
I wonder how much Sony pay these guys!

Enjoy this pathetic man...

Sony a7s III vs Canon R5 DISCUSSION with Gerald Undone
 

derpderp

Pixel Peeper
Jan 31, 2020
149
178
Dan Watson was the only one who said the R5 had less rolling shutter. That is complete rubbish. The videos weren't even synced correctly because his set up was not done correctly. When whip panning the cameras were looking at slight different angles. He should have stacked the cameras on top of one another with slight tilts. Every other test shows the Canon R5 has more rolling shutter. Though the performance is still great for a 45mp sensor. I think the Canon R series are great photo cameras. Video cameras, not really. I think the overheating thing is a big issue and makes the camera unusable on long form shoots. But for quick grabs, its great! Also Dan has his own biases, I wouldn't really look at his testing as final word. You should always do your own tests. Nonetheless in three years the cameras will be old machines XD
another Sony apologist spotted!
 

AlP

EOS R
Sep 5, 2018
36
59
How did sony managed to pull off a system where the camera has an in-build cooling system AND weather sealing where the R5/R6 failed?
I don't know how the R5/R6 gets the heat away from sensor and processor as I didn't take one apart and Canon didn't specify how heat sinking is done inside the cameras. However, the Sony does that (apparently) by trying to transfer the sensor and processor heat to a large part of the camera body with a kind of heat spreading system within the camera body. The whole body acts as a large heatsink but without having to rely solely on the thermal conductivity of the body itself to transfer the heat from the areas where the thermal coupling between sensor/processor and the body takes place and outside. Can't find the place where they said what material they are using for that, but I saw a rendering of the system.

That is likely why the R5 needs a much longer recovery time. Once internal parts reach high temperatures, the heat cannot be transferred very fast to outside the camera as either the thermal coupling to the camera body is weaker or it is limited to a small area of the body and the heat first needs to spread from there.

The Sony, on the other hand, could have a disadvantage: If the camera body is heated from outside, heat transfer to sensor/processor will also be more effective (as cooling is passive). That doesn't mean that the body will be heating the electronics, but that the temperature gradient will be lower and therefore cooling efficiency might drop faster. This could explain why in at least one test under the sun the Sony camera started overheating before the R5. The Sony will recover faster if the camera body is allowed to cool down though.

What would be interesting to see is how this affects IBIS performance. Better heat transfer from the sensor needs more material, and that material also better couples vibrations from outside to the sensor which the IBIS mechanism tries to keep stable. Quite possible that Sony opted to improve heat transfer while accepting compromises in IBIS performance (which is what seems to be the case by looking at some videos without Gimbal) while Canon decided to maximise IBIS performance and accepted compromises in sensor heat transfer and cooling times.

Finally it boils down to what the cameras were designed for and to the technical choices which have to be made in order to reach the design goals. So, this tells nothing about the engineering capabilities of one or the other brand. It might well be that Canon decided to compromise on heat transfer as that would allow an outer shell made in one piece or would simplify final assembly thus reducing manufacturing cost and allowing the camera to stay within the specified budget.

Let's see if LensRentals will do a full teardown of these cameras. Unfortunately I am not willing to sacrifice the warranty on my R5 to find out myself :)
 
Gerald Undone had a really good point about the stills on this camera. If you need a poster frame, or a BTS shot, or just shooting for IG this camera is great. A few extra niche uses as well, e.g. astro. 12 MP is enough if you're just asked to get a few group shots, an environmental portrait, etc. Just like the R5 is great if you're being asked to shoot a quick BTS interview video or a cinemagraph for IG, etc.
Sound like Bill Gates decades ago - 640 KB is enough just for anyone :)
 
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usern4cr

EOS RP
Sep 2, 2018
314
258
Kentucky, USA
This thing keeps overheating even when the temp threshold is set to high. Where are all the R5 overheating trolls?

So, this was a careful verification re-test in the Florida sun at 4K 60FPS. The A7s3 can have the overheat temp warning set to normal or high. On high it will run longer but put the camera at more risk. He put it on "high temp warning" to see how long it would last.
The results:
On one of his tests the A7s3 overheated first and shut off and trashed the recorded file - yes, it trashed it!
On the subsequent test the A7s3 overheated first and shut off well before the Canon.

Now I'm a stills shooter, but all you video shooters complaining about the Canon heating issue should take notice and start shouting about the A7s3 overheating if you want to be fair.

I'm getting the R5 for its wonderful build quality, lenses & stills use. I'll get into video for fun. Whether you get either camera I hope you get out and take stills & video and enjoy it!
 

tron

EOS R5
Nov 8, 2011
4,557
776
Obviously sony trolls do not care to comment on A7S3 trashing the recorded video at "high temp warning" setting.

One could say that A7S3 does not overheat, it trashes! :ROFLMAO:

On a serious note the only thing that would get my attention in A7S3 would be astrophotography photos compared to downscaled ones (to 12Mp) from R6, R5 and R (obviously at same settings, environment, etc. I am stating the obvious for well ... sony trolls!)