Industry News: The First Rumored Specifications of Nikon's Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Canon Rumors Guy

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<a href="https://nikonrumors.com/">Nikon Rumors</a> has posted the first rumored specifications of Nikon’s full frame mirrorless cameras.</p>
<ul>
<li>Two mirrorless cameras: one with 24-25MP and one with 45MP (48MP is also a possibility). I assume both cameras are full frame (I did not get a specific confirmation on that).</li>
<li>Similar body size to the Sony a7 camera but with better ergonomics and a better grip.</li>
<li>5-axis in-body stabilization</li>
<li>9fps</li>
<li>New mirrorless mount. We already knew that,  but the number I was given this time is 55mm. The Z-mount dimensions <a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/18/a-quick-update-on-the-rumored-nikon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-z-mount.aspx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">I reported a few months ago</a> were 49mm for the actual opening and 65.4mm for the entire mount diameter.</li>
<li>The new mirrorless mount will allow for f/0.95 lenses – <a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2018/06/02/nikon-has-a-new-noct-trademark-for-cameras-and-lenses.aspx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">remember the NOCT trademark and f/0.9 lens patents</a>?</li>
<li>Memory cards: XQD and CF Express – now this is a surprise for me, but it is what I have heard (<a href="https://photorumors.com/2018/04/08/new-from-prograde-digital-cfexpress-1tb-and-sdxc-uhs-ii-v90-memory-cards/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ProGrade is coming with a CF Express card</a>).</li>
<li>EVF resolution: 3.6MP</li>
<li>Initially, three lenses will be announced: 24-70mm, 35mm and 50mm (I think the 35 and 50mm will be f/1.4). There is also talk about a 24mm, but it may come later.</li>
<li><strong>Pricing:</strong>
<ul>
<li>The 45MP model will be around $4,000/€4,000 in a kit with the 24-70mm lens.</li>
<li>The 25MP model will be under $3,000/€3,000 (also with a lens).</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>The official announcement is rumored for the end of July (on or around July 23rd) and shipping shortly after (August 23rd). This is the part I am not sure about because previous tips suggested a Photokina announcement. Maybe we will see the development announcement at the end of July and the official announcement before Photokina. I will try to get a confirmation on the exact announcement date.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><a href="https://nikonrumors.com/">Read more at Nikon Rumors</a></strong></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
 

Etienne

EOS R
Sep 19, 2010
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287
Ottawa Ontario
Canon Rumors said:
<a href="https://nikonrumors.com/">Nikon Rumors</a> has posted the first rumored specifications of Nikon’s full frame mirrorless cameras.</p>
<ul>
<li>Two mirrorless cameras: one with 24-25MP and one with 45MP (48MP is also a possibility). I assume both cameras are full frame (I did not get a specific confirmation on that).</li>
<li>Similar body size to the Sony a7 camera but with better ergonomics and a better grip.</li>
<li>5-axis in-body stabilization</li>
<li>9fps</li>
<li>New mirrorless mount. We already knew that, but the number I was given this time is 55mm. The Z-mount dimensions <a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/18/a-quick-update-on-the-rumored-nikon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-z-mount.aspx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">I reported a few months ago</a> were 49mm for the actual opening and 65.4mm for the entire mount diameter.</li>
<li>The new mirrorless mount will allow for f/0.95 lenses – <a href="https://nikonrumors.com/2018/06/02/nikon-has-a-new-noct-trademark-for-cameras-and-lenses.aspx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">remember the NOCT trademark and f/0.9 lens patents</a>?</li>
<li>Memory cards: XQD and CF Express – now this is a surprise for me, but it is what I have heard (<a href="https://photorumors.com/2018/04/08/new-from-prograde-digital-cfexpress-1tb-and-sdxc-uhs-ii-v90-memory-cards/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ProGrade is coming with a CF Express card</a>).</li>
<li>EVF resolution: 3.6MP</li>
<li>Initially, three lenses will be announced: 24-70mm, 35mm and 50mm (I think the 35 and 50mm will be f/1.4). There is also talk about a 24mm, but it may come later.</li>
<li><strong>Pricing:</strong>
<ul>
<li>The 45MP model will be around $4,000/€4,000 in a kit with the 24-70mm lens.</li>
<li>The 25MP model will be under $3,000/€3,000 (also with a lens).</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>The official announcement is rumored for the end of July (on or around July 23rd) and shipping shortly after (August 23rd). This is the part I am not sure about because previous tips suggested a Photokina announcement. Maybe we will see the development announcement at the end of July and the official announcement before Photokina. I will try to get a confirmation on the exact announcement date.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><a href="https://nikonrumors.com/">Read more at Nikon Rumors</a></strong></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

Interesting, but no on-sensor phase-detect AF?
 

Chaitanya

EOS R
Jun 27, 2013
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Canon Rumors said:
<li>Memory cards: XQD and CF Express – now this is a surprise for me, but it is what I have heard (<a href="https://photorumors.com/2018/04/08/new-from-prograde-digital-cfexpress-1tb-and-sdxc-uhs-ii-v90-memory-cards/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ProGrade is coming with a CF Express card</a>).</li>
And still Canon is stuck on CF for their "pro" cameras and UHS-I SD slots(singular) for everything else.
That rumours might be someone's wishlist but it does seem realistic enough as a viable camera product. Also like someone else mention I would really like to see EF mount for Canon's FF MILC as it would mean less attention diverted between keeping 2 separate systems alive.
 

Normalnorm

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Dec 25, 2012
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As this is a list of rumored specs there probably many things not mentioned such as PDAF.

As for a new lens mount, Canon proved it could be done when they introduced the EF mount displacing their very extensive FD lens line. The rumored intro of several new Canon lenses may hint at a new mount for the upcoming FF mirrorless Canons.
I would also note that the EOS-M mount is a new mount. So it seems that Canon is not really afraid of new mounts.

Hanging on to a legacy mount despite the drawbacks is not a way to own the future.
 

MaxDiesel

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 23, 2015
59
11
Interesting, but no on-sensor phase-detect AF?
[/quote]

There are patients from Nikon showing a Quad Pixel autofocus which in theory could rival Canons much loved Duel Pixel tech.
 

AlanF

Stay at home
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Aug 16, 2012
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MaxDiesel said:
There are patients from Nikon showing a Quad Pixel autofocus which in theory could rival Canons much loved Duel Pixel tech.

How are Nikon patients caused? Do they drop the 200-500mm on their toes?
 

Chaitanya

EOS R
Jun 27, 2013
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AlanF said:
MaxDiesel said:
There are patients from Nikon showing a Quad Pixel autofocus which in theory could rival Canons much loved Duel Pixel tech.

How are Nikon patients caused? Do they drop the 200-500mm on their toes?
;D
 

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traveller

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Jul 22, 2010
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Sounds a bit “wish-list” to me, especially the IBIS: wouldn’t that be like saying that the F-mount is second rate? Dangerous message to be sending with Sony having the lead in terms of native full-frame mirrorless lens availability.

I also don’t quite get the “48MP is also a possibility”. Surely with an existing 45.7MP sensor (as used in the D850) or the off-the-shelf Sony 42MP sensor both available, it wouldn’t make financial sense to design and commission yet another sensor. Unless Nikon do have an on-imaging-sensor phase detect af system that requires a dedicated design (like Canon Dual Pixel does). In which case I would question why they weren’t able to get this ready in time for the D850 to launch with it also.
 

TAF

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Feb 26, 2012
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Normalnorm said:
As this is a list of rumored specs there probably many things not mentioned such as PDAF.

As for a new lens mount, Canon proved it could be done when they introduced the EF mount displacing their very extensive FD lens line. The rumored intro of several new Canon lenses may hint at a new mount for the upcoming FF mirrorless Canons.
I would also note that the EOS-M mount is a new mount. So it seems that Canon is not really afraid of new mounts.

Hanging on to a legacy mount despite the drawbacks is not a way to own the future.


The switch from the FD mount to the EF mount was necessary to provide for autofocus. There was simply no practical way to make the FD mount support where Canon intended to go.

There is no compelling technical reason to go to a different mount for a FF mirrorless. The EF still provides everything Canon requires; the only sacrifice is that the camera is a bit thicker than some people would like. I would suggest that that is not sufficient cause to invest a vast amount of money into the development of a new mount and new lenses.

I expect that their first FF mirrorless (FF-ML?) will be EF mount, simply to get the product out there and find out if the market is what they expect.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
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TAF said:
Normalnorm said:
As this is a list of rumored specs there probably many things not mentioned such as PDAF.

As for a new lens mount, Canon proved it could be done when they introduced the EF mount displacing their very extensive FD lens line. The rumored intro of several new Canon lenses may hint at a new mount for the upcoming FF mirrorless Canons.
I would also note that the EOS-M mount is a new mount. So it seems that Canon is not really afraid of new mounts.

Hanging on to a legacy mount despite the drawbacks is not a way to own the future.


The switch from the FD mount to the EF mount was necessary to provide for autofocus. There was simply no practical way to make the FD mount support where Canon intended to go.

There is no compelling technical reason to go to a different mount for a FF mirrorless. The EF still provides everything Canon requires; the only sacrifice is that the camera is a bit thicker than some people would like. I would suggest that that is not sufficient cause to invest a vast amount of money into the development of a new mount and new lenses.

I expect that their first FF mirrorless (FF-ML?) will be EF mount, simply to get the product out there and find out if the market is what they expect.
I 100% agree that s shallower body is not very important and also there is nothing to stop Canon from offering a mirrorless EF mount and then later ALSO offering a new mirrorless FF mount EF-X as some have called it. That option gives best of all worlds!
 

Larsskv

EOS R
Jun 12, 2015
848
295
MrFotoFool said:
With a new mount I wonder how many people will actually go for it? There is not overwhelming incentive for Nikon users to stick with the brand and why wouldn't people choose the already proven Sony format?

The same will apply to Canon. Honestly, if Canon releases a FF mirrorless with a new mount, any reasonable Canon user, myself included, should consider the competition, Sony and Nikon, before investing in a new system and a new set of lenses.

The interesting question is what Nikon and Canon will do to get their loyal customers investing in their new system. Compatibility with current cameras (flashes and lenses) will be important. But how many and which new lenses will they release, and at what prices?
 

Brown

I'm New Here
Apr 17, 2018
19
3
CarlMillerPhoto said:
God I hope Canon stands out from the pack and offers a mirrorless body with a native EF mount.

Then what's the point of it being mirrorless?
 

TAF

EOS RP
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Feb 26, 2012
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Brown said:
CarlMillerPhoto said:
God I hope Canon stands out from the pack and offers a mirrorless body with a native EF mount.

Then what's the point of it being mirrorless?

All the advantages of mirrorless (fast frame per second rate; live view; no vibration; no noise; a bit lighter without the heavy prism and mirror box; the potential for advanced display info; all hopefully without the need for 'chimping'), without the added expense of new lenses.
 

Brown

I'm New Here
Apr 17, 2018
19
3
TAF said:
Brown said:
CarlMillerPhoto said:
God I hope Canon stands out from the pack and offers a mirrorless body with a native EF mount.

Then what's the point of it being mirrorless?

All the advantages of mirrorless (fast frame per second rate; live view; no vibration; no noise; a bit lighter without the heavy prism and mirror box; the potential for advanced display info; all hopefully without the need for 'chimping'), without the added expense of new lenses.

Can't most of that be achieved with mirror lockup and an electronic shutter?
I fail to see the issue to using what amounts to an extension tube for legacy support as in the case of the EOS-M series.
 

Etienne

EOS R
Sep 19, 2010
1,479
287
Ottawa Ontario
Brown said:
TAF said:
Brown said:
CarlMillerPhoto said:
God I hope Canon stands out from the pack and offers a mirrorless body with a native EF mount.

Then what's the point of it being mirrorless?

All the advantages of mirrorless (fast frame per second rate; live view; no vibration; no noise; a bit lighter without the heavy prism and mirror box; the potential for advanced display info; all hopefully without the need for 'chimping'), without the added expense of new lenses.

Can't most of that be achieved with mirror lockup and an electronic shutter?
I fail to see the issue to using what amounts to an extension tube for legacy support as in the case of the EOS-M series.

I agree. The switch to mirrorless is long-term, and ultimately mirrors will disappear altogether, like film (there are still some people clinging to film). So the switch to mirrorless will not place priority on the legacy lens mount. They will certainly make a very good adapter, but it will be a new mount and a new set of lenses.
 

TAF

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
464
148
Brown said:
TAF said:
Brown said:
CarlMillerPhoto said:
God I hope Canon stands out from the pack and offers a mirrorless body with a native EF mount.

Then what's the point of it being mirrorless?

All the advantages of mirrorless (fast frame per second rate; live view; no vibration; no noise; a bit lighter without the heavy prism and mirror box; the potential for advanced display info; all hopefully without the need for 'chimping'), without the added expense of new lenses.

Can't most of that be achieved with mirror lockup and an electronic shutter?
I fail to see the issue to using what amounts to an extension tube for legacy support as in the case of the EOS-M series.

1. Most, but not all (and not the best parts). Note the 'no chimping' advantage of mirrorless, which obviously cannot be achieved with a regular mirrored camera with the mirror locked up, as well as a weight savings. Hence making mirrorless (with an EVF) more desirable.

2. The extension tube (as seen in the M series) is a) a potential failure point, b) something to be misplaced, c) something that can adversely affect the quality of the image unless the tube is extremely well made (and hence expensive - the plane of the two mounts must be exactly parallel, which is not that easy to achieve), d) a potential admission by Canon that they aren't really ready for a new mount system, which has psychological implications for sales. Just look at all the EOS-M lenses they have made...

Since the only reason for a new mount would be to make the camera thinner, at the expense of all of the above objections, it would seem a bad idea to go there.

We shall (hopefully) soon see.
 

roxics

EOS M6 Mark II
Jul 30, 2013
76
0
Brown said:
Can't most of that be achieved with mirror lockup and an electronic shutter?
I fail to see the issue to using what amounts to an extension tube for legacy support as in the case of the EOS-M series.

Yeah except for the EVF, unless you have a hybrid OVF/EVF of some kind. But I assume that just raises the cost unnecessarily.

Here is my Nikon FE on top of my Panasonic GH4 (which is smaller than the GH5)

FEvsGH4.jpg


Flange focal distance:
Nikon F = 46.50 mm
Micro43 = 19.25 mm
For reference:
Canon EF = 44.00 mm

Yet look at the actual thickness of each camera. The GH4 is actually thicker and the Nikon has a mirror box in it.
It's really the electronic components inside that make more of a difference in size than the flange focal distance.

So I say, keep the same lens mount and instant compatibility with all the existing lenses and just work on making the electronics smaller. This obsession people have with shorter flange focal distances is not necessary.