Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

[Jules]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

So they ran out of room for the headphone jack? It's not something I care about, but why did they use that huge double USB port???

You need the A/B connector for a device to act as a host (e.g. for the print button everyone uses).

I'm not certain the standard connector would fit any better. However, I don't suspect that top hole goes a long way towards keeping the door closed. Seems that they could have deleted the top one and added a headphone jack in its place.

But look at the 7D Mk II ports, it is basically the same size and has USB 3.0 and HDMI and has the headphone and mic, PC and remote so they could have added the headphone.
To differentiate all the lines they just do stuff like this. I am not a video shooter so does not bother me but there is no other good reason to keep the port out.

It may have been space on the inside they ran out of. A headphone port will require a headphone driver, often these are integrated into other chips, but as many chips inside canon cameras are canon chips, that may not be so.

It may be just an excuse, it may be real

Well, I just got a 7DII last November and I laught at that USB connexion everytime I download pics.
I previously had a 40D with mini-B USB 2.0 plug, compatible with a lot of other devices among which my IXUS 500 HS (for light-picture evenings parties or such), and now i have to handle not only the huge USB 3.0... but also its "protection" : said the documentation, the protective socket is there to be screwed in and protect the mainboard from being torn down basically if you don't pull your USB plug correctly (i.e sideways) ...

When you look at 7DII side, there is indeed room for all same connectors + headphone, and only 1 screw for the protective socket ... here on the 5Ds, they put 2 screws !!! :'( :'(

That probably means that it's a lesson learnt from 7DII , 1 screw was not enought, people were destroying their bodies as the protective device was not attached well enough and people were pulling it as well when taking out the Texas-sized USB plug ! (spent 2 years there ..."everything is bigger in TX")

 

[Maiaibing]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

To differentiate all the lines they just do stuff like this. I am not a video shooter so does not bother me but there is no other good reason to keep the port out.

Sound like a candidate for the lame excuse of the year (and we're only in February...). Micro/mini ports could have solved the space issues - if any (would of course have cost a little more to implement).

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

Jules, thank you for the very detailed information. I didn't realize the USB 3.0 was like that on the 7DII as well. I also didn't realize it was required for the host - I guess that's what I get for referring to Wikipedia for this information!

 

[K]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

Someone said Canon is living in the past with JPG processing.

I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.

Not every single shot you ever take from a camera needs to be a RAW file destined for hours of tedious and in depth post-processing. Not every single shot deserves or needs the careful post-processing workflow that one would apply to something destined for a portfolio or serious commercial work.

I'm not afraid to shoot JPG depending on the situation. If lighting is not a challenge - JPG is fine. If for example, you're going to be outside during the day shooting a sports event and there's not a cloud in sight - there's no worries for white balance.

Also, people who actually know how to use their cameras and achieve proper exposure IN CAMERA, have nothing to worry about. JPG is safe to tweak up or down 1/2 stop. That's my standard. You can go more, but quality suffers.

Canon applies awesome noise reduction, color aberration correction, vignetting fix, and now with the newer cameras - distortion correction IN CAMERA. You can apply the picture style you want or make a custom one for that event or environment. That is all less crap to have to deal with in post. In post, all one has to do is maybe adjust 1/3 up or down on exposure, and crop for best composition. Small files, easy workflow. Excellent results. Speed.

Again, not every photo is going to end up becoming an 8 foot poster or mural on display in a gallery. For most people, that will never happen. Why bother with the RAW workflow when it is unnecessary in some situations? Many of my shoots result in the digital transfer of files to the customer. The end result is going to be a JPG anyway!

FYI, I do shoot RAW also for the flexibility of it. But there is a time and place for JPG and it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

A lot of the "only shoot RAW" hysteria has come from Nikon and their shills on the web. Why? Nikon's JPG processing sucks compared to Canon. Nikon doesn't correct the images nearly as well, and their NR is practically non-existent. With Nikon, RAW is the only choice. Canon at least provides professional quality JPG output. Nikon does over saturate their images though - so fun pics, particularly outdoors look great for the average person. Nikon has that sort of high-end point and shoot look to their JPG output. This is targeted to please enthusiast dads shooting family pics. These are the people who go and buy the D3300 or D5200 kit and consider it a "serious" camera for the family.

For me it is simple - if I am shooting with the intention of plenty of post processing - RAW. If the event is not going to benefit from RAW, and JPG is more than enough and there's no lighting issues or dangers - JPG all the way.

Especially for sports. Having an ENDLESS buffer is great. And yes, I run the 1066x CF on a 5D3, so RAW buffer is good, but JPG is continuous.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

K,

That almost rant just sounds like somebody who doesn't have an efficient post processing workflow. In the days pre multiple RAW processors when you had to open each picture individually shooting jpeg in conjunction with RAW was a necessity, now with so many programs that can magae and display multiple RAW files all your concerns are moot.

Any setting you can put in on a custom picture style can be done in post, to as many or as few images as you want with one click. Custom camera profiles, lens corrections, NR and sharpening fine tuned to the n'th degree.

Sure jpegs are 'good', and more than good enough much of the time, but who is buying a 50MP studio orientated camera and shooting jpegs? And find me one semi serious landscape shoter for the 5DS R shooting jpeg alone.

 

[K]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

K,

That almost rant just sounds like somebody who doesn't have an efficient post processing workflow. In the days pre multiple RAW processors when you had to open each picture individually shooting jpeg in conjunction with RAW was a necessity, now with so many programs that can magae and display multiple RAW files all your concerns are moot.

Any setting you can put in on a custom picture style can be done in post, to as many or as few images as you want with one click. Custom camera profiles, lens corrections, NR and sharpening fine tuned to the n'th degree.

Sure jpegs are 'good', and more than good enough much of the time, but who is buying a 50MP studio orientated camera and shooting jpegs? And find me one semi serious landscape shoter for the 5DS R shooting jpeg alone.

I use Lightroom 5 (also have DXO 10). Yes, it can be done via preset or import. But for me, a switch of the dial and it's all there. I just sort through, crop, export - done.

In the context of a 50MP camera, yeah - JPG is questionable. But JPG isn't obsolete. It's there when useful. While one can make all the changes they want to RAW and have that flexibility, output isn't RAW. It's going to to have to be something, TIF, JPG ...yes other formats maintain full detail, but how often are people going to full resolution print? The real pros shooting huge prints have RAW as a default already and accept a more involved workflow (presets or not).

For those who want quality and simplicity for other scenarios to make a more well-rounded camera, it's nice to have good JPG processing.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.

I'll get insults because of this, ??? but I also appreciate the care that Canon has with in camera JPEG. It is not very useful for the target user 5DS, but photographers who do sports coverage with 7D Mark ii will see advantages in having images for immediate use.

The JPEG Sony and Nikon seem much worse than your processed RAW, but this has two reasons: : Bad JPEG engine, and RAW "pre-cooked". :-X

I have no proof of this, but I've read several testers claim that Nikon cameras secretly applies both noise reduction, and increased sharpness in your RAW files. If this is true, it would be a false advantage in Nikon RAW files, which look better with little effort in post production. This apparent advantage would not be detected in Nikon camera JPEG.

 

[xps]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

Interesting comment on the pricing od the 5DS:

"If you think $3000 is a bit steep, you might be interested to know that Masaya Maeda - Chief Executive of Imaging Products at Canon - agrees. He tells us he's saving up his own money to buy one. We'll be publishing an interview with Mr. Maeda very soon."

fount at: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5992168440/cp-2015-canon-shows-off-new-eos-5ds-and-5ds-r?slide=6

 

[Maiaibing]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

Interesting comment on the pricing od the 5DS:

"If you think $3000 is a bit steep, you might be interested to know that Masaya Maeda - Chief Executive of Imaging Products at Canon - agrees. He tells us he's saving up his own money to buy one.

Sounds very Japanese. He is probably saving up from the pocket money his wife gives him to buy it (ever wonder why the Japanese have one of the highest savings rate in the world?).

Apart from that I have never heard about Canon giving away or offering special-for-you-my-friend rebates on their gear to business associates (except for advertising partners and then for advertising purposes). The whole company seems very straight business like and may thus very well not offer their staff rebates.

I remember working with another Japanese company with an equally strong corporate identity. I offered them a newspaper series on a remarkable employee development program they had to make sure their people 100% understood their product and business philosophy. However, the reply was: "No. The employees would only think we have too much money!"

 

[rfdesigner]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

I'm one of those people that appreciates the fact that Canon has the best JPG quality out there. Their JPG processing, as well as the noise-reduction on JPG is the best. I don't care what you do with software, you can tweak those sliders all you want - Canon does it better in camera with the NR.

I'll get insults because of this, ??? but I also appreciate the care that Canon has with in camera JPEG. It is not very useful for the target user 5DS, but photographers who do sports coverage with 7D Mark ii will see advantages in having images for immediate use.

The JPEG Sony and Nikon seem much worse than your processed RAW, but this has two reasons: : Bad JPEG engine, and RAW "pre-cooked". :-X

I have no proof of this, but I've read several testers claim that Nikon cameras secretly applies both noise reduction, and increased sharpness in your RAW files. If this is true, it would be a false advantage in Nikon RAW files, which look better with little effort in post production. This apparent advantage would not be detected in Nikon camera JPEG.

It certainly was true on the D3, I've also seen some comments about noise clipping on the D800, which artificially boosts DxO marks (probably expains the difference between Sony and Nikon DR on the same chip)

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm

The guy who wrote this is increadably experieneced.. he was playing with CCDs on telescopes in the 1980s.. long before most professionals.

 

[Ivan Muller]

Re: Interview With Head of EOS 5Ds & EOS 5Ds R Development

What I noticed is that he talked about Mega-pixies and image quality, and for him a key determinator for image quality was the processor.

I think he may be making a mistake there.. won't most 5Ds users be shooting RAW?

The only user I can think of who would choose in camera processing are wedding photogs.. maybe they will be most of the customers for this but I though this was a studio/landscape camera, both of those users would want a RAW image surely?

I think what he meant was more the effect of the processor on extracting the data from the sensor and the effect on noise , colour, speed, sharpness etc etc rather than the jpeg conversions. Agreed many shoot Raw and so do I , but also just because mostly the jpegs are so soft and unacceptable(6D) if the jpegs are good I can think of quite a few situations where it would be advantageous.

Have a look here at for jpeg quality straight from the camera(7d2). ( I believe sports are shot mostly on jpegs because of the sheer volume and deadlines) https://scottkelby.exposure.co/game-day-with-the-vols

I am going to shoot a test run of 50 packshots today to be loaded directly on the cloud, renamed etc and I am going to do it on jpeg. Eventually I will shoot 1000 packshots and I don't want to have to spend 1sec more than I have to, on PP.

What it looks like to me is that Canon has a certain standards of what their cameras and the image quality thereof should adhere to, regardless of what WE may think it should be...The interview was quite informative as to those reasons and thinking. Bottom line for me is that I am extremely happy with my Canon stuff and the reliability thereof, including image quality, lens quality and sheer breath and depth of lenses and other acessories for every application. They must be doing something right in my book....I cant wait for the nifty fifty!