Invites for February Canon Press Event Going Out [CR3]

[Don Haines]

I think that DR will improve by only 1/2 to 1 stop over the current model. They haven't built a new sensor fabrication plant

they don't need to.

No, they do not. They can convert an exist fab process in an existing plant. It's already been done. The C300II has on sensor ADC.

And this may be the reason for lots of updates, as they get rid of products made on the old line.....

 

[rfdesigner]

I think that DR will improve by only 1/2 to 1 stop over the current model. They haven't built a new sensor fabrication plant

they don't need to.

No, they do not. They can convert an exist fab process in an existing plant. It's already been done. The C300II has on sensor ADC.

+1

you don't need a new fab, just an improved process.

For memory etc the key is to have ever smaller geometries, which could easily mean a whole load of more precise machines.. essentially a whole new fab. For imaging chips you need process purity and odd processes that may add superior optical or analogue features, pixels have gargantuan proportions compared to even 10 year old digital process sizes..

If canon has made the jump to combining their sensor and ADC processes, then all chips will benefit, we just have to wait for the technology to trickle down.

 

[rrcphoto]

Here's my dream scenario: Canon announces the 1D X Mark II on February 2nd with immediate availability the same day.

Reason for doing this: they want to make sure photographers at the Super Bowl have access to the latest and greatest tech.

they will be at the superbowl no matter what.

probably though that set the timeline. good comment btw, reading tea leaves we should have been expecting it the first week of Feb.

 

[rrcphoto]

I think that DR will improve by only 1/2 to 1 stop over the current model. They haven't built a new sensor fabrication plant

they don't need to.

No, they do not. They can convert an exist fab process in an existing plant. It's already been done. The C300II has on sensor ADC.

+1

you don't need a new fab, just an improved process.

For memory etc the key is to have ever smaller geometries, which could easily mean a whole load of more precise machines.. essentially a whole new fab. For imaging chips you need process purity and odd processes that may add superior optical or analogue features, pixels have gargantuan proportions compared to even 10 year old digital process sizes..

If canon has made the jump to combining their sensor and ADC processes, then all chips will benefit, we just have to wait for the technology to trickle down.

full frame sensors use 20 year old fab technology.

not to mention that canon has litho equipment down to I believe around 90nm, and even if they wanted to go real high tech - nano technologies down to 2nm(!!)

but in reality canon's second fab already had a 180nm line. which is "leading bleeding edge" for full frame sensors.

the holdup wasn't the factory. the holdup was the patents.

canon got approved a crapton of sensor patents dealing with ADC over the last year. and they obviously feel comfortable with it because that 250MP sensor they developed was using on sensor ADC.

I lost count to a) how many sensor patents canon filed for ADC b) how many got published this year. Somewhere around 5-10 patents published this year, and they file far far far far far FAR more than that.

 

[rfdesigner]

I think that DR will improve by only 1/2 to 1 stop over the current model. They haven't built a new sensor fabrication plant

they don't need to.

No, they do not. They can convert an exist fab process in an existing plant. It's already been done. The C300II has on sensor ADC.

+1

you don't need a new fab, just an improved process.

For memory etc the key is to have ever smaller geometries, which could easily mean a whole load of more precise machines.. essentially a whole new fab. For imaging chips you need process purity and odd processes that may add superior optical or analogue features, pixels have gargantuan proportions compared to even 10 year old digital process sizes..

If canon has made the jump to combining their sensor and ADC processes, then all chips will benefit, we just have to wait for the technology to trickle down.

full frame sensors use 20 year old fab technology.

not to mention that canon has litho equipment down to I believe around 90nm, and even if they wanted to go real high tech - nano technologies down to 2nm(!!)

but in reality canon's second fab already had a 180nm line. which is "leading bleeding edge" for full frame sensors.

the holdup wasn't the factory. the holdup was the patents.

canon got approved a crapton of sensor patents dealing with ADC over the last year. and they obviously feel comfortable with it because that 250MP sensor they developed was using on sensor ADC.

I don''t know if that's true, but it doesn't seem unreasonable.. do you have any links detailing which patents were crucial?.. I know there was more than one that made CR in the last year.

 

[PureClassA]

And this may be the reason for lots of updates, as they get rid of products made on the old line.....

Yes indeed. Maeda even said going forward Canon will be an ON CHIP ADC maker. Start with the C300II and 1DXII and then it'll be replacements models galore for the next couple years as everything gets changed over. 5D4, 6D2, etc... (7D3 may come a lot sooner than 4-5 years too.)

 

[rrcphoto]

I think that DR will improve by only 1/2 to 1 stop over the current model. They haven't built a new sensor fabrication plant

they don't need to.

No, they do not. They can convert an exist fab process in an existing plant. It's already been done. The C300II has on sensor ADC.

+1

you don't need a new fab, just an improved process.

For memory etc the key is to have ever smaller geometries, which could easily mean a whole load of more precise machines.. essentially a whole new fab. For imaging chips you need process purity and odd processes that may add superior optical or analogue features, pixels have gargantuan proportions compared to even 10 year old digital process sizes..

If canon has made the jump to combining their sensor and ADC processes, then all chips will benefit, we just have to wait for the technology to trickle down.

full frame sensors use 20 year old fab technology.

not to mention that canon has litho equipment down to I believe around 90nm, and even if they wanted to go real high tech - nano technologies down to 2nm(!!)

but in reality canon's second fab already had a 180nm line. which is "leading bleeding edge" for full frame sensors.

the holdup wasn't the factory. the holdup was the patents.

canon got approved a crapton of sensor patents dealing with ADC over the last year. and they obviously feel comfortable with it because that 250MP sensor they developed was using on sensor ADC.

I don''t know if that's true, but it doesn't seem unreasonable.. do you have any links detailing which patents were crucial?.. I know there was more than one that made CR in the last year.

we have no idea on what canon would decide is a critical patent.

 

[PurMar]

My sources say that Canon will announce the sale of their camera division to Sony to capture back the lost market shares.

 

[kaihp]

I lost count to a) how many sensor patents canon filed for ADC b) how many got published this year. Somewhere around 5-10 patents published this year, and they file far far far far far FAR more than that.

ITYM last year (2015). We're in January

 

[1kind]

5 days ago, someone in DPR mentioned February 1 announcement date for 1D XII. He actually said both 15+ stops of DR and 22MP were wrong. This is what he said:

"Didn't even get the Resolution right and they BS about DR ratio. Canon already handed out NDA for 1Dx II during CES. You guys can wait for Feb 1 release and stop reading Canon Rumors BS."

When asked how he knew about this he didn't want to elaborate referring to NDA.

There was another mention of February press event in DPR couple of days ago by another forum member. So, it seems that 1D XII announcement is only two weeks away.

I highly doubt NDA's was given out at CES. Canon's booth had nothing major going on. If anything, there was more action happening at ImagingUSA.

 

[PureClassA]

What are the odds they announce a lens to go with the camera body? Specifically, a new 50mm?

That's exactly what I've been speculating on here in other threads. I'd find it hard to imagine a 1DX2 gets released without a surprise L glass partner. ANd if not immediately or in tandem then probably not long after. The 1DX2 will have it's own little show the first week of Feb it seems, but perhaps by CP+ three weeks later, we see it publicly with a new 50L. I just don't see a 50L replacement being held up with the new 35 already out. Pairing it with the 1DX2 release makes sense.

 

[expatinasia]

5 days ago, someone in DPR mentioned February 1 announcement date for 1D XII. He actually said both 15+ stops of DR and 22MP were wrong. This is what he said:

"Didn't even get the Resolution right and they BS about DR ratio. Canon already handed out NDA for 1Dx II during CES. You guys can wait for Feb 1 release and stop reading Canon Rumors BS."

When asked how he knew about this he didn't want to elaborate referring to NDA.

There was another mention of February press event in DPR couple of days ago by another forum member. So, it seems that 1D XII announcement is only two weeks away.

I highly doubt NDA's was given out at CES. Canon's booth had nothing major going on. If anything, there was more action happening at ImagingUSA.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that a few extra NDAs were given out at CES. I am sure a few journalists/publications may have been forgotten, the email went to the spam folder etc. Or one journo friend chats to another friend to see if he got his, and the guy walks up to Canon and says we are planning a story on this, blah, blah, blah. Just normal life stuff. These sort of things tend to happen in private, but it is definitely possible.

 

[Diltiazem]

And this may be the reason for lots of updates, as they get rid of products made on the old line.....

Yes indeed. Maeda even said going forward Canon will be an ON CHIP ADC maker. Start with the C300II and 1DXII and then it'll be replacements models galore for the next couple years as everything gets changed over. 5D4, 6D2, etc... (7D3 may come a lot sooner than 4-5 years too.)

Yes. Actually not just on chip ADC (column parallel), this month Canon has been granted a patent for sensor with ADC for each pixel. Patient application was filed in February 2013.

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=9,232,166.PN.&OS=PN/9,232,166&RS=PN/9,232,166

If you scroll down to Background of Invention where you will see:
One disclosed aspect of the embodiments relates to a photoelectric conversion apparatus and a photoelectric conversion system in which each pixel includes an analog-to-digital conversion unit that converts an analog signal into a digital signal.

This patent may turn out to be just a patent without practical implementation. But it shows Canon is not just sitting idle while others are 'innovating'.

 

[rfdesigner]

And this may be the reason for lots of updates, as they get rid of products made on the old line.....

Yes indeed. Maeda even said going forward Canon will be an ON CHIP ADC maker. Start with the C300II and 1DXII and then it'll be replacements models galore for the next couple years as everything gets changed over. 5D4, 6D2, etc... (7D3 may come a lot sooner than 4-5 years too.)

Yes. Actually not just on chip ADC (column parallel), this month Canon has been granted a patent for sensor with ADC for each pixel. Patient application was filed in February 2013.

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=9,232,166.PN.&OS=PN/9,232,166&RS=PN/9,232,166

If you scroll down to Background of Invention where you will see:
One disclosed aspect of the embodiments relates to a photoelectric conversion apparatus and a photoelectric conversion system in which each pixel includes an analog-to-digital conversion unit that converts an analog signal into a digital signal.

This patent may turn out to be just a patent without practical implementation. But it shows Canon is not just sitting idle while others are 'innovating'.

it's one step nearer the holy grail: count each photon into digital memory as they appear.

 

[Tugela]

Although I would never be able to afford a 1DX/1DXii, this is really exciting and I can't wait to see what the 1DXii will be like. I'm really hoping Canon do a huge upgrade for all the new bodies this year (6D2 especially).

Since Nikon and Samsung have that partnership now, what happened to their partnership with Sony? If it has ended, that does leave the slim possibility of a Sony/Canon partnership!

Even if I could afford one, I still would not buy one. The thing is far too bulky for regular use. Ergonomics is important as well.

It would be like trying to use a studio camera to shoot home video. No doubt it would be able to shoot excellent footage, but it simply is not practical to use in that setting.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

What are the odds they announce a lens to go with the camera body? Specifically, a new 50mm?

I would bet there is going to be a 16-35 L III. Quite a popular wide angle lens for sport shooters.

 

[Don Haines]

Although I would never be able to afford a 1DX/1DXii, this is really exciting and I can't wait to see what the 1DXii will be like. I'm really hoping Canon do a huge upgrade for all the new bodies this year (6D2 especially).

Since Nikon and Samsung have that partnership now, what happened to their partnership with Sony? If it has ended, that does leave the slim possibility of a Sony/Canon partnership!

Even if I could afford one, I still would not buy one. The thing is far too bulky for regular use. Ergonomics is important as well.

It would be like trying to use a studio camera to shoot home video. No doubt it would be able to shoot excellent footage, but it simply is not practical to use in that setting.

If instead of a 1DXII, they announce a 6D2 and a 400F5.6, there will be a lot of disappointed 1DX fanatics and a serious hole in my wallet.....

 

[PureClassA]

If instead of a 1DXII, they announce a 6D2 and a 400F5.6, there will be a lot of disappointed 1DX fanatics and a serious hole in my wallet.....

That lens would pair nicely with a 1DX2 release...

 

[K-amps]

Bring it!
I hope the rumors of "Class Leading Dynamic Range" turn out to be true. Also hoping for high iso performance that tops the d5.

I used to wish for high DR... now I tell myself 10 stops are ok... as long as the file is very clean at base iso and like the D810 NEF's, there is extra color bit headroom that when I play with that file, it does not break apart and band like my 5d3 does... at base iso. At higher iso, I have no problems given the subjects...

 

[jeffa4444]

Bring it!
I hope the rumors of "Class Leading Dynamic Range" turn out to be true. Also hoping for high iso performance that tops the d5.

I used to wish for high DR... now I tell myself 10 stops are ok... as long as the file is very clean at base iso and like the D810 NEF's, there is extra color bit headroom that when I play with that file, it does not break apart and band like my 5d3 does... at base iso. At higher iso, I have no problems given the subjects...

Ive not seen any banding in the 5DS against some pretty bland grey skies as Ive seen in the 5D MKIII or to a lessor degree the 6D so Canon appear to have cracked that nut.