Is Canon now two generations behind Nikon?

[joejohnbear]

In my experience, I'll agree the 5DIII worked better for wide aperture and fast action than the Multicam3500 at the exterior points. Having the better spread out points is definitely something you have to try out for yourself in the real world, Maiaibing. It helps tremendously with compelling composition.

Now, please provide the evidence for your claim. Or I will conclude that you - once again - prefer babbling rants to any fact based discussion.

To be honest, I haven't seen any reliable comparisons online that are conclusive, one way or the other. As I stated before, I tested them head to head, personally (in part because there was nothing conclusive online). I didn't write up my results as a white paper or a blog, and have no intention of doing so. You may conclude whatever you wish.

Fact-based discussion? The facts are (as one of your links pointed out) that the 5DIII AF is better spec'd, with the exception of number of AF points available with an f/8 TC combo. The 5DIII has more AF points, more cross-type points, cross-type points spread across the frame instead of clustered in the center, and central points with a wider baseline (f/2.8, five dual-cross points) for increased accuracy.

 

[Loswr]

From a Canon employee (although not one from DSLR division or even from Japan):"....or those expecting 4K video in a DLSR will be very disappointed. Canon sees no reason for this in a consumer camera yet. They told my boss only about 10% of people buy a 5D III for it's video capabilities. They are focusing on cinema market and want you to pay big dollars for the C300/500 or 1DC if you must have a DSLR with 4K. 5D IV will not get it IMO and at best we will see 1080p @ 60fps."

Great so they want to go from a lot buying the 5D2 for video to 10% for the 5D3 to 0.1% for the 5D4. Brilliant.

If this is true and no Exmor-low ISO.... maybe Canon really and truly has lost the plot.
We'll see next year.

I still findit hard to believe they'd be that THAT foolish to leave 4k out of even the 5D4 though. I still think it will ahve it.

'A Canon employee', well that's specific. There are close to 200,000 of them, and the vast majority know nothing about the details of future corporate strategy. Anyone placed highly enough in the organization to actually know would also know better than to divulge. I'd give your quote about the same level of reliability if I heard it from a gas station attendant or supermarket cashier.

 

[Loswr]

In my experience, I'll agree the 5DIII worked better for wide aperture and fast action than the Multicam3500 at the exterior points. Having the better spread out points is definitely something you have to try out for yourself in the real world, Maiaibing. It helps tremendously with compelling composition.

Some people prefer to read about comparisons on the Internet...especially if those comparisons are biased in favor of the reader's predetermined conclusions.

 

[Don Haines]

From a Canon employee (although not one from DSLR division or even from Japan):"....or those expecting 4K video in a DLSR will be very disappointed. Canon sees no reason for this in a consumer camera yet. They told my boss only about 10% of people buy a 5D III for it's video capabilities. They are focusing on cinema market and want you to pay big dollars for the C300/500 or 1DC if you must have a DSLR with 4K. 5D IV will not get it IMO and at best we will see 1080p @ 60fps."

Great so they want to go from a lot buying the 5D2 for video to 10% for the 5D3 to 0.1% for the 5D4. Brilliant.

If this is true and no Exmor-low ISO.... maybe Canon really and truly has lost the plot.
We'll see next year.

I still findit hard to believe they'd be that THAT foolish to leave 4k out of even the 5D4 though. I still think it will ahve it.

'A Canon employee', well that's specific. There are close to 200,000 of them, and the vast majority know nothing about the details of future corporate strategy. Anyone placed highly enough in the organization to actually know would also know better than to divulge. I'd give your quote about the same level of reliability if I heard it from a gas station attendant or supermarket cashier.

Perhaps it's the photocopier repairman..... photocopier repairmen are instrumental in charting the future of Canon's imaging division.... and they can make copies of squirrel pictures....

 

[Maiaibing]

Having the better spread out points is definitely something you have to try out for yourself in the real world, Maiaibing. It helps tremendously with compelling composition.

Having wide spread AF points is certainly a big advantage. And its something I could use a lot for my specific shooting style. When I first took the 5Diii for a week long test ride the one thing I found was a significant user improvement over the 5Dii (apart from the dial lock) was the ability to "store" a specific AF point that I could switch to immediately when going from portrait to landscape format.

 

[jrista]

Having the better spread out points is definitely something you have to try out for yourself in the real world, Maiaibing. It helps tremendously with compelling composition.

Having wide spread AF points is certainly a big advantage. And its something I could use a lot for my specific shooting style. When I first took the 5Diii for a week long test ride the one thing I found was a significant user improvement over the 5Dii (apart from the dial lock) was the ability to "store" a specific AF point that I could switch to immediately when going from portrait to landscape format.

If Canon does start to trickle down the iTR metering from the 1D X, that advanced meter-linked subject tracking, combined with Canon's significantly higher cross-type AF point count, should mean very good things for Canon action shooters. Maybe pushing down iTR will also mean we get AF-point linked metering in lesser models than the 1D X. That's certainly something Canon users have been clamoring for for years.

 

[Loswr]

Maybe pushing down iTR will also mean we get AF-point linked metering in lesser models than the 1D X. That's certainly something Canon users have been clamoring for for years.

That would be nice...but I would highly recommend not expecting that feature in the 7DII.

 

[mackguyver]

Maybe pushing down iTR will also mean we get AF-point linked metering in lesser models than the 1D X. That's certainly something Canon users have been clamoring for for years.

That would be nice...but I would highly recommend not expecting that feature in the 7DII.

I agree and personally haven't found iTR to do a whole lot for tracking. For face recognition, even at f/1.2, it's pretty awesome, but tracking isn't much better than the iTR-less 5DIII.

As for the AF-point linked metering, I'm sure that will remain a 1 series exclusive, but then again, the f/8 AF used to be as well. If the 7DII really has f/8 AF (they say it does), its pretty amazing that Canon has brought that feature down two levels so quickly.

 

[cosmopotter]

FF Canons are falling behind.

The 6D is a nice camera but the AF in it is ancient (11,1+type) compared to the D610 (39,9+type). Now Nikon has a D750 and D810 to beat on the 5D, a new D4s to go against the 1D, and the Df with no Canon competitor. Canon does better with crop sensors in that the 70D is a winner, the new 7D should be a hit for wildlife guys, and the Rebels I think are better than Nikon's offerings particularly when it comes to lenses. Canon needs to get moving on the 5D4 and 6D2 IMO.

 

[Loswr]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

Now Nikon has a D750 and D810 to beat on the 5D, a new D4s to go against the 1D, and the Df with no Canon competitor.

The D800 didn't 'beat on the 5DIII' with respect to sales, we don't know if the D810 will either, and the D750 is late to the party. Nikon had to release the D4s to go against the 1D X because the D4 wasn't cutting it.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

 

[mackguyver]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

Sort of the same as Nikon not competing with the EOS M ;D. It's a massively underrated camera IMHO, but a poor seller nonetheless.

 

[Loswr]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

Sort of the same as Nikon not competing with the EOS M ;D. It's a massively underrated camera IMHO, but a poor seller nonetheless.

Not popular here, but the EOS M was the #2 best-selling MILC in Japan last year, beating out Panasonic and Olympus and only <2% behind the Sony cam in the top spot.

 

[mackguyver]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

Sort of the same as Nikon not competing with the EOS M ;D. It's a massively underrated camera IMHO, but a poor seller nonetheless.

Not popular here, but the EOS M was the #2 best-selling MILC in Japan last year, beating out Panasonic and Olympus and only <2% behind the Sony cam in the top spot.

Really? I knew EVILs/MILCs were big over there but didn't realize that it had sold so well in Japan. That's interesting and thanks for the info.

 

[Sporgon]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

and the Df with no Canon competitor.

Yep, it's unique.

The irony is if someone really wanted the 'retro' film slr experience a 6D with 's' screen and some nice Zeiss manual focus primes would fit the bill much better.

 

[Loswr]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The irony is if someone really wanted the 'retro' film slr experience a 6D with 's' screen and some nice Zeiss manual focus primes would fit the bill much better.

Not really, at least not if someone wanted to be seen looking ubercoolretrohip while taking pictures.

 

[cosmopotter]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

I understand that, I'm just saying that Nikon is working hard at it. Not 1, but 3 competitors to the 5D3 all with different benefits. Believe me, I'm a Canon guy but I want them to move a bit faster. I also work for a Japanese company and know the frustrating difficulty that is often involved in getting the Japanese to change without a 2 year study first. My point is that Nikon DID make the necessary changes, so will Canon respond in a timely fashion. I truly hope that the earlier CR rumor about the new sensor technology in the 7DII trickling down into other products is true AND that it happens quickly.

Now Nikon has a D750 and D810 to beat on the 5D, a new D4s to go against the 1D, and the Df with no Canon competitor.

The D800 didn't 'beat on the 5DIII' with respect to sales, we don't know if the D810 will either, and the D750 is late to the party. Nikon had to release the D4s to go against the 1D X because the D4 wasn't cutting it.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

 

[Sporgon]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The irony is if someone really wanted the 'retro' film slr experience a 6D with 's' screen and some nice Zeiss manual focus primes would fit the bill much better.

Not really, at least not if someone wanted to be seen looking ubercoolretrohip while taking pictures.

I've only got to pick a camera up to give it the retro look

 

[Aglet]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

HEHE. Canon's retro look is hidden behind every one of their AA filters.

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

Is the Df not selling well? That's a shame. Honestly, I think it's a neat little camera. I like the forced manual operation (if I understand its design correctly). It's a great deterrent to laziness and improving your skills I bet.

I don't intend to switch from Canon to Nikon (I'm investing in Canon flashes and lenses for a reason), but I'd have to say that if Canon came out with a Df competitor, like a full frame 20+ MP digital version of the A-1 or something, I'd be inclined to own it instead of my Powershot s95 for a second camera.

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Re: FF Canons are falling behind.

The Df with no Canon competitor? Why should Canon bother competing with a camera that isn't selling? :

HEHE. Canon's retro look is hidden behind every one of their AA filters.

Are you implying that the days of AA filters are over? I think Nikon is taking a bold step by forcing the AA/no-AA filter choice on the D810 as opposed to it being up to the purchaser with the D800. I wouldn't feel comfortable not having that as a choice. If I was a D800 user (not a D800E user), I might be hesitant to upgrade.