Is there an EOS R series camera with an APS-C sensor coming? [CR1]

[jolyonralph]

The EOS M series will continue as they are.

The EOS R series will continue, probably with a high-end APS-C camera (7D equivalent) for those who don't need full frame but want the larger R style body.

And, because of this differentiation, lenses that can be made as EF rather than RF will continue to be made as EF because that's the only type of lens that will work across both systems right now.

RF-S lenses will be great for video on the EOS R (because if you're doing crop 4K video you can use lighter APS-C lenses, which remains an advantage even if there's a full frame 4K option in the future), and for the obvious 7D equivalent APS-C model.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

For some time to come - perhaps the next 3 years - there is going to be a limited range of RF lenses.

And during that time Canon will continue to promote all their existing mounts ... EF, EF-S and EF-M.

But, eventually, the *only* mount which will remain standing will be the RF mount, and a whole range of new lenses for that mount, from big/heavy/expensive to small/light/cheap.

Perhaps there will be FF and APS-C variants but the new protocol and extra features it facilitates will win out.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply in denial.

 

[AlanF]

I would like a true RAW switchable FF/APS-C, like 50mpx/20mpx, so you can choose between FF or a greater fps/smaller file size at the toggle of a switch or use it with a gamut of lenses.

 

[Southpix]

7D III replacement?

 

[tron]

I would like a true RAW switchable FF/APS-C, like 50mpx/20mpx, so you can choose between FF or a greater fps/smaller file size at the toggle of a switch or use it with a gamut of lenses.

Interesting and I guess doable! This could be probably implemented also in a future 5DsRMkII. But the argument to that could be that Nikon D850 at 45Mpixel and 9fps is both! Which raises the bar even more. Also in some BIF cases maybe we need both (FF to target/keep the bird in viewfinder and many fps to get the best moment).

 

[jolyonralph]

Interesting! This could be probably implemented also in a future 5DsRMkII

It needs a much smarter sensor technology than the one Canon are using now. Currently, when using crop mode on a 5DSR the sensor still has to dump the entire sensor data to be processed and then it is only during further processing that the additional data is thrown away.

You probably need a global shutter type system with on-sensor DRAM for it to be able to switch between a faster crop mode and slower full-sensor - although this could also allow any area of the sensor to be chosen as the crop rectangle, and different aspect crops as well if you wished.

 

[tron]

It needs a much smarter sensor technology than the one Canon are using now. Currently, when using crop mode on a 5DSR the sensor still has to dump the entire sensor data to be processed and then it is only during further processing that the additional data is thrown away.

You probably need a global shutter type system with on-sensor DRAM for it to be able to switch between a faster crop mode and slower full-sensor - although this could also allow any area of the sensor to be chosen as the crop rectangle, and different aspect crops as well if you wished.

So a technically simpler (??) - but no cheaper - way could be to make a D850 competitor. I was thinking simple: like older FF Nikons which I think could work in APS-C mode only this time with a FF high MP Canon camera.

 

[SteveCheetham]

I would be very doubtful that Canon would ditch the M series, it sells well and is one of the few options out there for a small lightweight kit, with a decent sensor size. If they release an R series with APCS-C sensor surely this is the mirrorless equivalent of the 7 series, faster frame rate, and crop aimed at sports/wildlife.

There is a definite market for the M series. I have a 5DSR and plenty of glass, and while I love the quality, my bag weighs 12kgs, so I do sometimes long for a smaller lighter kit but retaining the quality. There's little choice with an APS-C sensor, the M series, Fuji XT series or Sony A6000. I'm sure Canon know this and the growing line of M lenses makes it an attractive option.

 

[scyrene]

And they laughed when i suggested there might be RF-S lenses earlier!

Ha!

What does that mean, unless it's a joke? I thought EF-S was introduced to take advantage of the ability to get the rear of the lens closer to the sensor. Aren't RF lenses already close to the sensor? So what would RF-S mean?

 

[jolyonralph]

What does that mean, unless it's a joke? I thought EF-S was introduced to take advantage of the ability to get the rear of the lens closer to the sensor. Aren't RF lenses already close to the sensor? So what would RF-S mean?

RF-S lenses would be RF mount but with an image circle designed for APS-C. So cheaper, lighter lenses that don't give a full frame image. These would also be great for 4K video on the EOS R.

 

[Josh Leavitt]

It would make more sense to do it as a low-megapixel s35 sensor video camera, so one still has access to essentially built-in ND filters. Or maybe they are planning make a focal reducer for it as well.

A super35 with the RF mount is an interesting idea, and I think that will be the direction for Canon's future cine cameras, but I don't think we'll see a super35 in an actual EOS R body. A C100 mark III with an RF mount would be a welcome prospect.

 

[Stuart]

An EOS 7R would i imagine suit a lot of people with the EF adapter allowing them to keep their lenses, or use a new long RF lens with fast focus sports/bird capability. The new sensors multipoint fast focusing would be great. Without native long Sigma RF lenses to compete with this might be financially enticing too for Canon.
Also APS-c means the sensor is smaller so IBIS is easier and should disperse heat easier. Actually the more i make this up the better is sounds.

 

[Architect1776]

Continue reading...

I would disagree on dropping the M line. It is overall much more compact and light unless Canon is willing to make a small SL-2 type R camera with correspondingly very small and light R lenses like the M lenses. There are many people who like the small light cameras and lenses for travel. Now if they made the M5 with the R mount then that would be sweet and some small light lenses.

 

[padam]

A super35 with the RF mount is an interesting idea, and I think that will be the direction for Canon's future cine cameras, but I don't think we'll see a super35 in an actual EOS R body. A C100 mark III with an RF mount would be a welcome prospect.

The reason why I wrote that: imho for now, an RF-mount stills-focused camera with a crop sensor just doesn't make that much sense for me, even an EF (EF-S) mount mirrorless camera makes more sense(there are lenses for it), and the EF-M system will soldier on as well of course.
But if they want to shift more ND filter adapters (let's be honest: it is good business for them at the current price) it looks like a good idea, same with the focal reducer if they are unable to make FF video work at this stage.

Cinema cameras can stay EF-mount with built-in ND filters, all their Cinema lenses (either MF or with Servo-Zoom) are EF-mount.

 

[Sibir Lupus]

I don't see why APS-C cameras using the R mount has any effect on EOS-M. Right now, the EF-S cameras can use all EF lenses. Doing the same with the R mount makes sense. Right now EF-S lenses can not be used on EF cameras but with the R mount, RF-S could be used on R cameras and the camera could just automatically read from a part of the FF sensor. The R mount APS-C/FF duo would be more flexible than the current EF-S/EF split.

As Don suggested, this would make sense for the 80D and 7D2 lines. For everything else, I can see EOS M taking more of that market. In effect, RF-S/RF would be the new EF-S/EF, and the M ecosystem will take the space of the powershots.

I agree. I think two APS-C based EOS R bodies will be the the mirrorless successor to the 80D and 7D Mark II (one geared more for video, and one geared more for high FPS, or maybe one body for a combination of both). This leaves the EOS M series to eventually replace the Rebel series and possibly push out the failing Powershot G1X Mark III (for the price they were charging, it should have come with an quality L lens).

 

[Sibir Lupus]

For some time to come - perhaps the next 3 years - there is going to be a limited range of RF lenses.

And during that time Canon will continue to promote all their existing mounts ... EF, EF-S and EF-M.

But, eventually, the *only* mount which will remain standing will be the RF mount, and a whole range of new lenses for that mount, from big/heavy/expensive to small/light/cheap.

Perhaps there will be FF and APS-C variants but the new protocol and extra features it facilitates will win out.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply in denial.

Canon has supported multiple mounts for YEARS, so it's not unlikely for them to do it in the future. That's not denial, that's just fact . Also, don't forget the CN-E based EF lenses (Cinema EOS lenses ) that are not compatible with the EOS R. I don't see Canon retooling their entire Cinema EOS line just because of RF mount. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see Canon make an RF mount based low end Cinema body in the future.

 

[zim]

I would like a true RAW switchable FF/APS-C, like 50mpx/20mpx, so you can choose between FF or a greater fps/smaller file size at the toggle of a switch or use it with a gamut of lenses.

Absolutely, totally what I've been hoping for so I hope this rumour is not true!

Even though I see this as an opportunity for Canon to move 7D users up to FF unfortunately I think that there are two reasons it won't happen
1. I want it to happen
2. Canon won't sell a One camera solution if they think they can sell two

 

[rsdofny]

For some time to come - perhaps the next 3 years - there is going to be a limited range of RF lenses.

And during that time Canon will continue to promote all their existing mounts ... EF, EF-S and EF-M.

But, eventually, the *only* mount which will remain standing will be the RF mount, and a whole range of new lenses for that mount, from big/heavy/expensive to small/light/cheap.

Perhaps there will be FF and APS-C variants but the new protocol and extra features it facilitates will win out.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply in denial.

RF mount cannot be used for too small a camera body. That makes the lens strategy for Canon quite interesting to watch. The migration of EF to RF mount has to be very gentle.

Can you imagine the reaction from the Canon fanbase when Canon changes the DSLR mount to RF? How many RF mount lens have to be in the market before they throw the switch? Or will Canon proclaim that MLIC is the way to go? Do they have to keep a separate mount for smaller cameras?

I think that Sony FF ML can shoot both FF and APS-C format already.

 

[sailonset]

I'd love to have an R-series body with an APS-C sensor to use all of my 7DII's EF-S lenses.

 

[AlanF]

Absolutely, totally what I've been hoping for so I hope this rumour is not true!

Even though I see this as an opportunity for Canon to move 7D users up to FF unfortunately I think that there are two reasons it won't happen
1. I want it to happen
2. Canon won't sell a One camera solution if they think they can sell two

Usual sales ploy. Have one FF/APS-C that is very expensive and then have an APS-C alone in identical size body and looking that is much cheaper, just as 5D exists alongside 7D.