L Lenses for crop bodies

[Rienzphotoz]

*Canon Rumors Obscene Squirrel Police

;D ;D ;D

 

[Rienzphotoz]

does he look offended?

I don't know if he is offended or not ... but he seems to be a lot more decent and well mannered than the last guy you inflicted upon us (Rember?: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=15358.45) ;D

 

[paul13walnut5]

Aw nawwww! I've made a terrible mistake! Ididn't realise that was his, you know, saddlebags, I thought the little fella was just out for a play on his space hopper.

No wonder folk got ratty!

 

[Sporgon]

When you are comparing 100% crops you are comparing them on a per pixel basis

Ok, let's try that. At the risk of offending the CROSP*, below are a pair of images shown at 100%. One is from an 18 MP APS-C camera at ISO 3200. The other is from an 18 MP FF camera at ISO 6400. I'm having trouble telling which is which, the noise levels are so similar.
Can anyone help me figure out which is which? : : : : :

*Canon Rumors Obscene Squirrel Police

Is it not possible that we are seeing the difference between three years worth of technology here ?

 

[Pi]

Is it not possible that we are seeing the difference between three years worth of technology here ?

For the same level of technology and for all major manufacturers (in terms of QE, Canon is just slightly behind unlike DR), shot noise levels are remarkably close for the same format, and the difference between APS-C and FF is too close to the predicted 1.35 stops, to be a pure coincidence. All this regardless of pixel size, believe it or not.

 

[candc]

think of it like this:

the image sensor is like the autobahn and the pixels are like vehicles carrying light. a small pixel is like a citroen sm and a large pixel is like a semi tractor trailer

in order to carry the same amount of light it takes a lot more citroens and they get congested and bang into each other causing noise

the semi trailers have a bigger payload and can carry that light much more efficiently without all the congestion

 

[Loswr]

Is it not possible that we are seeing the difference between three years worth of technology here ?

I previously compared the 7D with the (older) 5DII, and came to the same conclusion. As I said, unless you're shooting at ISO 800 or less and need to print larger than 16x24"/A2 size, there's no advantage to an APS-C sensor other than cost (note, that's not to say there's no advantage to an APS-C body - the 7D is better than the 5DII for birds, because the AF and frame rate outweigh the FF sensor advantage; the 5DIII trumps both).

 

[paul13walnut5]

think of it like this:

the image sensor is like the autobahn and the pixels are like vehicles carrying light. a small pixel is like a citroen sm and a large pixel is like a semi tractor trailer

in order to carry the same amount of light it takes a lot more citroens and they get congested and bang into each other causing noise

the semi trailers have a bigger payload and can carry that light much more efficiently without all the congestion

The SM has a big boot though. And a maserati engine. And with its hydropneumatic suspension it can be raised and lowered to traverse rougher roads. And it's much nicer looking than a tractor. Maybe an H van is the way forward. What would an H van be in camera terms then?

 

[candc]

think of it like this:

the image sensor is like the autobahn and the pixels are like vehicles carrying light. a small pixel is like a citroen sm and a large pixel is like a semi tractor trailer

in order to carry the same amount of light it takes a lot more citroens and they get congested and bang into each other causing noise

the semi trailers have a bigger payload and can carry that light much more efficiently without all the congestion

The SM has a big boot though. And a maserati engine. And with its hydropneumatic suspension it can be raised and lowered to traverse rougher roads. And it's much nicer looking than a tractor. Maybe an H van is the way forward. What would an H van be in camera terms then?

an h van would be like the pixel on an aps-h sensor, sort of in between

 

[paul13walnut5]

think of it like this:

the image sensor is like the autobahn and the pixels are like vehicles carrying light. a small pixel is like a citroen sm and a large pixel is like a semi tractor trailer

in order to carry the same amount of light it takes a lot more citroens and they get congested and bang into each other causing noise

the semi trailers have a bigger payload and can carry that light much more efficiently without all the congestion

The SM has a big boot though. And a maserati engine. And with its hydropneumatic suspension it can be raised and lowered to traverse rougher roads. And it's much nicer looking than a tractor. Maybe an H van is the way forward. What would an H van be in camera terms then?

an h van would be like the pixel on an aps-h sensor, sort of in between

Right, yep, like your thinking, so if I threw a piaggio ape into the mix? And it's a cobbled back street in, say, vienna. Is that a bit like a compact camera?

 

[candc]

i see your point, we either need small pixels with better technology like the citroen sm or bigger pixels like the tractor trailer

 

[candc]

think of it like this:

the image sensor is like the autobahn and the pixels are like vehicles carrying light. a small pixel is like a citroen sm and a large pixel is like a semi tractor trailer

in order to carry the same amount of light it takes a lot more citroens and they get congested and bang into each other causing noise

the semi trailers have a bigger payload and can carry that light much more efficiently without all the congestion

The SM has a big boot though. And a maserati engine. And with its hydropneumatic suspension it can be raised and lowered to traverse rougher roads. And it's much nicer looking than a tractor. Maybe an H van is the way forward. What would an H van be in camera terms then?

an h van would be like the pixel on an aps-h sensor, sort of in between

Right, yep, like your thinking, so if I threw a piaggio ape into the mix? And it's a cobbled back street in, say, vienna. Is that a bit like a compact camera?

no, a compact camera is like a moped, it's small and noisy without much power, it will get you around but you don't want your friends to see you with it

 

[paul13walnut5]

Ahhh! but the Piaggio is a moped essentially. More like a premium compact perhaps?

 

[candc]

Ahhh! but the Piaggio is a moped essentially. More like a premium compact perhaps?

you are right, i would not mind my friends seeing me on one of those and it looks like it will give you a smoother ride and better performance than a moped

 

[candc]

the important thing for everyone to remember is that its not important how wide the autobon is or the size of the vehicles traveling on it, whats important is that we are dealing with car metaphors and it seems you can solve anything that way.

all the best

 

[Pi]

i see your point, we either need small pixels with better technology like the citroen sm or bigger pixels like the tractor trailer

I would think that the Citroen SM would be a pretty big pixel in EU?

 

[paul13walnut5]

It's quite a big pixel anywhere I would imagine. Folk swoon over the DS. The SM is where it was at.

 

[DJD]

The following link has been shared before. But as far as I'm concerned, the article is one of the best real world comparisons of a 5DII vs 7D IQ when reach limited. It's worth the read...

http://iwishicouldfly.com/iwishicouldfly/journal/html/020112b.html

Cheers,
DJD

 

[candc]

The following link has been shared before. But as far as I'm concerned, the article is one of the best real world comparisons of a 5DII vs 7D IQ when reach limited. It's worth the read...

http://iwishicouldfly.com/iwishicouldfly/journal/html/020112b.html

Cheers,
DJD

thanks for posting, i will bookmark and point to it next time i get yelled at for suggesting you can get similar results shooting ff or aps-c

 

[Pi]

The following link has been shared before. But as far as I'm concerned, the article is one of the best real world comparisons of a 5DII vs 7D IQ when reach limited. It's worth the read...

http://iwishicouldfly.com/iwishicouldfly/journal/html/020112b.html

Cheers,
DJD

thanks for posting, i will bookmark and point to it next time i get yelled at for suggesting you can get similar results shooting ff or aps-c

LOL! You missed the point of that comparison!

Bookmark it so that you can look at it next time somebody suggests that crop cameras actually have better reach.