Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr

[Nitroman]

Hi !

I used to have a 150mm (short telephoto) leaf shutter lens for my Mamiya 645. It was amazing - i could sync my fill flash outdoors at wide apertures and long distances.

Why don't Canon make such lenses ? They can't be any more specialist than Canon PC lenses and great for fashion / outdoor portrait work.

Any ideas ?

 

[risc32]

i guess they don't make them because they usually max out at 1/500th. but, i know. i also want to synch flash at 1/500th or faster. i'm hoping they pull it off with some sensor tricks, but i'm not holding my breath.

 

[ahab1372]

Maybe the because most dSLRs have the shutter in the body?
In order to use a leaf shutter lens, the camera shutter would have to stay open for at least as long as the lens shutter will be open, and somehow the the lens shutter would have to be actuated. Technically probably not impossible (the lens aperture is actuated when you press the shutter button, so why not the lens shutter?), but it would be entirely new functionality for current dSLRs

 

[Sporgon]

Maybe the because most dSLRs have the shutter in the body?
In order to use a leaf shutter lens, the camera shutter would have to stay open for at least as long as the lens shutter will be open, and somehow the the lens shutter would have to be actuated. Technically probably not impossible (the lens aperture is actuated when you press the shutter button, so why not the lens shutter?), but it would be entirely new functionality for current dSLRs

Pentax made a leaf shutter 'standard' lens for their wonderful Pentax 6x7, and that had a normal focal plane shutter as well, which was used with all the other lenses available.

No problems in that respect.

 

[Nitroman]

I'm just wondering if it could be incorporated into Magic Lantern ... Have posted this thread too :

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=15196.0

 

[lilmsmaggie]

Why don't Canon make such lenses ? They can't be any more specialist than Canon PC lenses and great for fashion / outdoor portrait work.

Any ideas ?

I can think of a reason: lenses with built-in leaf shutters (Mamiya and Schneider lenses included) add additional cost to the lens which makes them expensive.

If you think Canon L lenses are expensive, imagine how much more so with built-in leaf shutters.

 

[privatebydesign]

To gain one stop of sync speed isn't worth the time trouble or effort, they could never reclaim the investment in R&D and manufacturing line tooling.

Besides, Canon probably assume people understand the limitations of leaf shutters and the capabilities of HSS.

 

[docholliday]

Maybe the because most dSLRs have the shutter in the body?
In order to use a leaf shutter lens, the camera shutter would have to stay open for at least as long as the lens shutter will be open, and somehow the the lens shutter would have to be actuated. Technically probably not impossible (the lens aperture is actuated when you press the shutter button, so why not the lens shutter?), but it would be entirely new functionality for current dSLRs

Nope...my Hasselblad 203 had a focal plane shutter in the body, but in 'C' mode, used the lens leaf shutter and changed the function of the FP shutter to act like the standard baffles in the 50x bodies.

 

[docholliday]

i guess they don't make them because they usually max out at 1/500th. but, i know. i also want to synch flash at 1/500th or faster. i'm hoping they pull it off with some sensor tricks, but i'm not holding my breath.

Wrong...the Hasselblad H lenses are 1/800s, electronic controlled leaf shutters...and those are some big shutters. Imagine what could be done with smaller format shutters...

 

[Drizzt321]

i guess they don't make them because they usually max out at 1/500th. but, i know. i also want to synch flash at 1/500th or faster. i'm hoping they pull it off with some sensor tricks, but i'm not holding my breath.

Wrong...the Hasselblad H lenses are 1/800s, electronic controlled leaf shutters...and those are some big shutters. Imagine what could be done with smaller format shutters...

Hmm...I never really have looked into it, but does the size of the shutter leafs actually affect the speed at which they can sync to? I'd say that does make sense, since they open up to a smaller diameter opening because the lens needs to project a smaller image circle. Hmm...that could be pretty cool. Probably expensive though, but cool.

 

[ahab1372]

Maybe the because most dSLRs have the shutter in the body?
In order to use a leaf shutter lens, the camera shutter would have to stay open for at least as long as the lens shutter will be open, and somehow the the lens shutter would have to be actuated. Technically probably not impossible (the lens aperture is actuated when you press the shutter button, so why not the lens shutter?), but it would be entirely new functionality for current dSLRs

Nope...my Hasselblad 203 had a focal plane shutter in the body, but in 'C' mode, used the lens leaf shutter and changed the function of the FP shutter to act like the standard baffles in the 50x bodies.

yes, that's how I thought it might work. But for (most) 35mm or APS-C dSLRs that functionality would have to be added to the body. And obviously the manufacturers don't deem it worth it ...

 

[tpatana]

Sorry for amateur question, but how/what does leaf shutter help/improve?

 

[Drizzt321]

Sorry for amateur question, but how/what does leaf shutter help/improve?

In this case we are talking specifically about strobe sync-speeds. With leave shutters, the shutter is in the lens, generally right in front/behind the aperture, and when it opens/closes it always exposes the entire sensor/film during a given exposure. However, they tend to be limited to slower max shutter speeds than a focal plane shutter. Focal plane shutters (such as the ones in basically all* 35mm and smaller format cameras) actually sit just in front of the sensor/film and during exposure it has 2 curtains, the 1st and 2nd curtain. At the start of the exposure the 1st curtain starts to move across the sensor. Depending on the shutter speed, the 2nd curtain may begin traveling across the sensor before the 1st curtain reaches the other edge of the sensor. With a strobe, since the amount of time that the strobe outputs light is extremely short, may not expose the entire sensor if the focal plane shutter has the 2nd curtain begin moving before the the 1st curtain has reached the other edge of the sensor.

So, if you have a leaf shutter, you can use a strobe at pretty much any speed that the shutter supports. With a focal plane shutter, you can only use a strobe at the sync-speed, which tends to be 1/200s or 1/250s depending on cameras. It used to be even more pronounced, with sync-speeds of 1/60 or 1/125 on the earlier 35mm cameras.

* And by all, I mean the ones that the vast, vast majority of people will or have used

 

[tpatana]

Sorry for amateur question, but how/what does leaf shutter help/improve?

In this case we are talking specifically about strobe sync-speeds. With leave shutters, the shutter is in the lens, generally right in front/behind the aperture, and when it opens/closes it always exposes the entire sensor/film during a given exposure. However, they tend to be limited to slower max shutter speeds than a focal plane shutter. Focal plane shutters (such as the ones in basically all* 35mm and smaller format cameras) actually sit just in front of the sensor/film and during exposure it has 2 curtains, the 1st and 2nd curtain. At the start of the exposure the 1st curtain starts to move across the sensor. Depending on the shutter speed, the 2nd curtain may begin traveling across the sensor before the 1st curtain reaches the other edge of the sensor. With a strobe, since the amount of time that the strobe outputs light is extremely short, may not expose the entire sensor if the focal plane shutter has the 2nd curtain begin moving before the the 1st curtain has reached the other edge of the sensor.

So, if you have a leaf shutter, you can use a strobe at pretty much any speed that the shutter supports. With a focal plane shutter, you can only use a strobe at the sync-speed, which tends to be 1/200s or 1/250s depending on cameras. It used to be even more pronounced, with sync-speeds of 1/60 or 1/125 on the earlier 35mm cameras.

* And by all, I mean the ones that the vast, vast majority of people will or have used

I see.

My (cheap Chinese) strobes do well until around 1/500-1/1000. Faster than that, I start to see un-even light. I can go up to 1/8000, but then half of the picture is clearly darker.

 

[Drizzt321]

Sorry for amateur question, but how/what does leaf shutter help/improve?

In this case we are talking specifically about strobe sync-speeds. With leave shutters, the shutter is in the lens, generally right in front/behind the aperture, and when it opens/closes it always exposes the entire sensor/film during a given exposure. However, they tend to be limited to slower max shutter speeds than a focal plane shutter. Focal plane shutters (such as the ones in basically all* 35mm and smaller format cameras) actually sit just in front of the sensor/film and during exposure it has 2 curtains, the 1st and 2nd curtain. At the start of the exposure the 1st curtain starts to move across the sensor. Depending on the shutter speed, the 2nd curtain may begin traveling across the sensor before the 1st curtain reaches the other edge of the sensor. With a strobe, since the amount of time that the strobe outputs light is extremely short, may not expose the entire sensor if the focal plane shutter has the 2nd curtain begin moving before the the 1st curtain has reached the other edge of the sensor.

So, if you have a leaf shutter, you can use a strobe at pretty much any speed that the shutter supports. With a focal plane shutter, you can only use a strobe at the sync-speed, which tends to be 1/200s or 1/250s depending on cameras. It used to be even more pronounced, with sync-speeds of 1/60 or 1/125 on the earlier 35mm cameras.

* And by all, I mean the ones that the vast, vast majority of people will or have used

I see.

My (cheap Chinese) strobes do well until around 1/500-1/1000. Faster than that, I start to see un-even light. I can go up to 1/8000, but then half of the picture is clearly darker.

Well, that actually means your strobes are rather slow if they you still sync at 1/500 of a second. Many/most strobes actually put out all of their light even a smaller fraction of a second. However you may see uneven light at speeds faster than your cameras sync speeds because the strobe may not put out the same amount of light during it's strobe.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

A flash typically lights the scene for about 1/10,000 of a second, so a faster shutter speed is usually of little consequence.

One of the reasons why we got them in the first place was that users wanted interchangeable lenses. Imagine what happens to film if you remove a leaf shutter type lens. Nothing keeps light from reaching the film.

With DSLR's, its not a issue, but we don't need to redesign all the lenses either.

 

[docholliday]

A flash typically lights the scene for about 1/10,000 of a second, so a faster shutter speed is usually of little consequence.

One of the reasons why we got them in the first place was that users wanted interchangeable lenses. Imagine what happens to film if you remove a leaf shutter type lens. Nothing keeps light from reaching the film.

With DSLR's, its not a issue, but we don't need to redesign all the lenses either.

That's why 500 series Hasselblad, RB/RZ, Rollei, etc has the body baffles. It's like a solid shutter in the body to shield the film back from light when the lens is removed. That's what keeps the light from reaching the film. Well, that and the dark slide in removable backs and large format Grafloc/international backs.

 

[Hillsilly]

Canon should just work on their focal plane shutters to achieve a 1/500 sync speed on their higher specc'd bodies. Along with high speed sync, there wouldn't be much reason for a leaf shutter.

 

[RGF]

i guess they don't make them because they usually max out at 1/500th. but, i know. i also want to synch flash at 1/500th or faster. i'm hoping they pull it off with some sensor tricks, but i'm not holding my breath.

Have you tried high speed synch? Works for me, but flash power is greatly reduced

 

[deleteme]

With a focal plane shutter, you can only use a strobe at the sync-speed, which tends to be 1/200s or 1/250s depending on cameras. It used to be even more pronounced, with sync-speeds of 1/60 or 1/125 on the earlier 35mm cameras.

* And by all, I mean the ones that the vast, vast majority of people will or have used

I think you mean all speeds UP TO the maximum sync speeds the camera supports.

What I like about leaf shutter cameras is the silence. Of course this only applies to cameras that lack a reflex mirror.