Leica Announces SL Type 601 Mirrorless Camera

[PhotographyFirst]

You know, after reading Ming's review of the camera, it actually seems much cooler in actual use than on paper. My only beef would be the fact that long exposure noise reduction can't be turned off. That would be a no-go for stitching astro landscape shots. No way I am waiting 20-30 seconds after each exposure to take the next one. Hopefully the production models are foxed or offered a firmware update.

On the other hand, the top display apparently give min and max depth of field distance info based on focus distance and aperture. That would be really sweet for focus stacking.

http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/

The weather sealing seems to have been a huge priority for this camera, which is pretty nice.

Ming also mentions that the EVF is basically lightyears ahead of anything ever made before for a consumer product. Insanely fast refresh, resolution, and size. Could be the jump that leaves the OVF with less of an advantage.

He says the AF is decent light is as fast as they claim, which is impressive for a full frame mirrorless.

 

[scyrene]

The problem with the size is, it loses some of the advantages of mirrorless without gaining the advantages of a DSLR - the battery life is especially disappointing.

A large mirrorless camera would interest me (with caveats) for ergonomic reasons, but battery life is crucial too.

 

[ahsanford]

The problem with the size is, it loses some of the advantages of mirrorless without gaining the advantages of a DSLR - the battery life is especially disappointing.

A large mirrorless camera would interest me (with caveats) for ergonomic reasons, but battery life is crucial too.

But of course mirrorless can do some awesome things better than an SLR that have nothing to do with size:

• A viewfinder that can do things traditional OVFs cannot: focus speaking, realtime histo, light amplification in dark rooms, etc.
• No mirror slap
• Faster max shutter than 1/8000
• Less moving parts, less things that can fail --> potentially a more reliable instrument over a longer period of time
• [Mirrorless proponents back me up here, I know I've forgotten a few nice upsides in this list.]

Keep in mind that I don't own a mirrorless rig b/c today the performance is only there from a pure IQ (sensor) perspective. On so many other fronts, handling/ergonomics, AF, tracking, burst, responsiveness, etc. I find mirrorless way behind my 5D3.

But consider the bullet points above. Mirrorless can be much more than making things smaller.

- A

 

[Dylan777]

The problem with the size is, it loses some of the advantages of mirrorless without gaining the advantages of a DSLR - the battery life is especially disappointing.

A large mirrorless camera would interest me (with caveats) for ergonomic reasons, but battery life is crucial too.

But of course mirrorless can do some awesome things better than an SLR that have nothing to do with size:

• A viewfinder that can do things traditional OVFs cannot: focus speaking, realtime histo, light amplification in dark rooms, etc.
• No mirror slap
• Faster max shutter than 1/8000
• Less moving parts, less things that can fail --> potentially a more reliable instrument over a longer period of time
• [Mirrorless proponents back me up here, I know I've forgotten a few nice upsides in this list.]

Keep in mind that I don't own a mirrorless rig b/c today the performance is only there from a pure IQ (sensor) perspective. On so many other fronts, handling/ergonomics, AF, tracking, burst, responsiveness, etc. I find mirrorless way behind my 5D3.

But consider the bullet points above. Mirrorless can be much more than making things smaller.

- A

Let's discuss more when you own one. Until then, big sensor in compact body still the primary key for mirrorless over DSLR.

 

[3kramd5]

But of course mirrorless can do some awesome things better than an SLR that have nothing to do with size:
[Snip]
Faster max shutter than 1/8000.

The EOS 1D resents that comment.

But I posted this less to inquire what the mirror has to do with the shutter, and more to pick at a pet peeve of mine. 1/8000 (or whatever) is the min shutter. Not the max. The unit is of time, not velocity

 

[Bernard]

the battery life is especially disappointing.

All the user reports so far mention a battery life of 700+ exposures. Is that not enough?

I think the problem could be that battery life tests are based on point-and-shoot usage: using the rear screen all the time, chimping after every shot, refocusing after every shot, etc. Real-world results will be different if you use this camera like an SLR.

 

[3kramd5]

I think the problem could be that battery life tests are based on point-and-shoot usage: using the rear screen all the time... Real-world results will be different if you use this camera like an SLR.

Note that on the Sony A7R2 (which many people claim this camera competes with... somehow), using the EVF takes more juice than using the rear screen.

 

[Canon Rumors Guy]

Canon EOS 5DS R & Leica SL Side-by-Side Comparison

Yesterday, <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/leica-announces-sl-type-601-mirrorless-camera/">Leica announced the Leica SL (Type 601)</a> which looks to be a near full frame DSLR sized mirrorless camera. Most of the rumor mill was expecting something around the <a href="http://www.photographyblog.com/news/leica_sl_vs_sony_a7r_ii_side_by_side_comparison/" target="_blank">size of the Sony A7 series of cameras</a> and were surprised to see that wasn’t the case, myself included. This is definitely a new take on the mirrorless concept and it will be interesting to see how the market responds and if Leica can get this camera into the hands of true professionals, something they’ve been unable to do for quite some time.</p>
<p class="fs16 OpenSans-600-normal upper product-highlights-header"><strong>Leica SL (Type 601) Highlights:</strong></p>
<ul class="top-section-list" data-selenium="highlightList">
<li class="top-section-list-item">24MP Full-Frame CMOS Sensor</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Leica Maestro II Image Processor</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Internal DCI 4K Video & V-Log L Gamma</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">0.66″ 4.4MP 0.8x Electronic Viewfinder</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">2.95″ 1.04M-Dot LED-Backlit Touchscreen</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Contrast AF System with 49 Fields</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Up to 11 fps Shooting and ISO 50000</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Two SD Card Slots; 1.3″ Top LCD Screen</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Weather-Resistant Milled Aluminum Body</li>
<li class="top-section-list-item">Built-In Wi-Fi Connectivity and GPS</li>
</ul>
<p>PhotographyBLOG has posted a series of comparison shots of the Leica SL and EOS 5DS R. You can view the rest of the <a href="http://www.photographyblog.com/news/leica_sl_vs_canon_eos_5ds_r_side_by_side_comparison/" target="_blank">comparison images here</a>.</p>

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[scyrene]

the battery life is especially disappointing.

All the user reports so far mention a battery life of 700+ exposures. Is that not enough?

I think the problem could be that battery life tests are based on point-and-shoot usage: using the rear screen all the time, chimping after every shot, refocusing after every shot, etc. Real-world results will be different if you use this camera like an SLR.

I was going by the CIPA, which DPR said was 400 shots. Even 700 though seems low compared to the 5D3 (and therefore definitely low compared to the 1Dx).

 

[scyrene]

The problem with the size is, it loses some of the advantages of mirrorless without gaining the advantages of a DSLR - the battery life is especially disappointing.

A large mirrorless camera would interest me (with caveats) for ergonomic reasons, but battery life is crucial too.

But of course mirrorless can do some awesome things better than an SLR that have nothing to do with size:

• A viewfinder that can do things traditional OVFs cannot: focus speaking, realtime histo, light amplification in dark rooms, etc.
• No mirror slap
• Faster max shutter than 1/8000
• Less moving parts, less things that can fail --> potentially a more reliable instrument over a longer period of time
• [Mirrorless proponents back me up here, I know I've forgotten a few nice upsides in this list.]

Keep in mind that I don't own a mirrorless rig b/c today the performance is only there from a pure IQ (sensor) perspective. On so many other fronts, handling/ergonomics, AF, tracking, burst, responsiveness, etc. I find mirrorless way behind my 5D3.

But consider the bullet points above. Mirrorless can be much more than making things smaller.

- A

I wasn't saying small size was the only advantage to mirrorless.

EVFs offer intriguing capabilities, sure.

Mirror slap... is that a big problem? You can lock up the mirror, and don't the newest Canon DSLRs have a dampening feature that reduces it otherwise?

As I've mentioned on another thread, do all-electronic devices really fail less frequently or later than mechanical ones? I'd love to see some evidence either way. Both fail. Both are susceptible to different things - shocks might harm a mirror mechanism but not a circuit, but moisture might be fatal to the former and not the latter, etc. And are mechanical parts easier or harder, cheaper or more expensive to replace or repair if and when they do fail? It's nothing like as simple as you imply.

As others have mentioned, 1/8000 isn't the fastest a mechanical shutter/mirror can do (just the standard maximum for some now). Incidentally, though more is almost always better, I can't say I use 1/8000 often at all.

 

[jeffa4444]

the battery life is especially disappointing.

All the user reports so far mention a battery life of 700+ exposures. Is that not enough?

I think the problem could be that battery life tests are based on point-and-shoot usage: using the rear screen all the time, chimping after every shot, refocusing after every shot, etc. Real-world results will be different if you use this camera like an SLR.

I was going by the CIPA, which DPR said was 400 shots. Even 700 though seems low compared to the 5D3 (and therefore definitely low compared to the 1Dx).

If your going to compare anything to the 1DX you need to add a battery grip which is effectively built-in on the 1DX otherwise its meaningless.
700 shots for the vast majority are fine.

 

[jeffa4444]

The size comparisons to the 5DS/R / 5D MKIII still show the camera smaller in most planes. Ive had Olympus mirrorless cameras since they brought them out this certainly lookd gigantic compared to them though.

 

[scyrene]

the battery life is especially disappointing.

All the user reports so far mention a battery life of 700+ exposures. Is that not enough?

I think the problem could be that battery life tests are based on point-and-shoot usage: using the rear screen all the time, chimping after every shot, refocusing after every shot, etc. Real-world results will be different if you use this camera like an SLR.

I was going by the CIPA, which DPR said was 400 shots. Even 700 though seems low compared to the 5D3 (and therefore definitely low compared to the 1Dx).

If your going to compare anything to the 1DX you need to add a battery grip which is effectively built-in on the 1DX otherwise its meaningless.
700 shots for the vast majority are fine.

Fair enough, the 5DIII then. It might be fine, but it's much less, right? My point was, IF it's going to be DSLR-sized (shallower, fine, but especially with those lenses, essentially the same overall) THEN the lower battery life is disappointing. Not a fair point?

 

[erjlphoto]

Have a great deal of gratitude to Leica for their longtime contribution to photography. The size of this system and its lack of external controlls seems quite unlike the Leica's I have loved and known (film). Simply stated, it looks to be a bit of an oddball offering and I have no lust to own this system...

 

[whothafunk]

god that Leica is ugly as hell

 

[George D.]

Absolutely marvelous. A thin line between toy and professional tool. Or is it both. And minimal. Four numbers on the top deck LCD and that's it. That's all you need. 5DS looks like a Humvee as compared.

 

[jeffa4444]

I must confess it does come across as odd-ball, I dont like the angular shape it will more readily scratch at these corners but then again most people that buy there cameras treat them like jewelry not photographic tools. The M-240 is a brilliant camera the mono version in particular but Im not sure who they are trying to appeal to with this camera.
Forgetting cost I would never trade this for my 5DS.

 

[Bullwye]

• Less moving parts, less things that can fail --> potentially a more reliable instrument over a longer period of time

I do not think this is a more durable system. I would bet that an EVF fails quicker than a mirror since it is way more complex.

 

[ahsanford]

• Less moving parts, less things that can fail --> potentially a more reliable instrument over a longer period of time

I do not think this is a more durable system. I would bet that an EVF fails quicker than a mirror since it is way more complex.

Does your SLR sensor or back LCD conk out at a higher rate than your mirror box does?

- A

 

[ahsanford]

I'm having a hard time pegging who this Leica system is for without saying something snotty about one percenters.

Disregarding the sickeningly wealthy crowd for a second, this system represents:

1) The first interchangeable lens setup with AF on an FF sensor for Leica (...right?)

2) Prior Leica glass will work on this, with some caveats to crop factor, and of course, it will be MF.

So the most likely scenario someone would buy this professionally would be...

• Current Leica rangefinder users who have need for longer focal lengths (I seem to recall rangefinders have problems/limitations/handling complications with longer glass)
  
  
• Current Leica rangefinder users who need AF for whatever reason
  
  
• Current Leica users who want to move from a multi-company setup (Leica for general use, Canon/Nikon for other uses -- video, sports, reach, etc.) to a single company setup
  
  

And I have a hard time coalescing that venn diagram into a single type of photographer. Photojournalist, maybe? Wedding photographer, perhaps? I've seen wedding photogs shoot wide aperture Leica shots after the wedding and crack out the Canon/Nikon gear for the reception.

Who is pumping their fist at this announcement for what it now allows them to do that they could not before?

- A