LP-E6, LP-E6N and LC-E6E chargers?

[Valvebounce]

Hi Folks.
I have after market LP-E6 (900mAh) and LP-E6N (2600mAh) batteries, the LP-E6 are a couple of years old, well used and reliable in my 7D, I now have LP-E6Ns for my 7DII, I also have the original LC-E6E chargers for each camera.
I have noticed that the LP-E6 won't charge in the new LC-E6E charger, they do the flash once per second (as in <50%) then go to rapid continual flashing (defective unit?) I assume this is due to changes in the chipping of the batteries.
I have also found that the older 7D charger will not charge the LP-E6N equivalents to full capacity, I discovered this after a couple of times of noticing that one battery showed up as much lower capacity on the battery info menu after a short amount of use. I then checked them straight off the chargers and confirmed this, showing 80%. Taking the charged (green light) battery off the old charger and putting it on the new it would resume with the 3 flashes per second (>75%) for several minutes, maybe even tens of minutes (I wasn't counting) before turning green.
This is all with the aftermarket batteries and so far I have not replicated the situation with the OEM batteries, nor do I expect to, I figure this is another penalty for aftermarket batteries and is likely to do with the increased mAh rating of the aftermarket items.
Conclusion, these chargers are not 100% forwards / backwards compatible with aftermarket batteries, but then if I was making them I'd not be worried about that either!
I posted this more as an informative item and to see if anyone else has noticed this behaviour rather than looking for an explanation, however any insight that might help understand this is welcome.

Cheers, Graham.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

When charging the chargers work to a cut off voltage of 4.2 volts per cell (normal for Lithium Ion cells). So long as your batteries are in good working order then it is Canon playing silly buggers with the chips in the battery casings. Canon, and others, go to great lengths to make you buy their grossly over priced batteries. For example my 1DX uses 3 standard 18650 Lithium cells which cost about £3 to £5 each on the UK high street yet a pretty pack from Canon costs £129! It is a pretty casing but £120 for the casing!
If your chargers refuse to work just get a cheap 3rd part charger and be happy - still WAY cheaper!

 

[RGF]

When charging the chargers work to a cut off voltage of 4.2 volts per cell (normal for Lithium Ion cells). So long as your batteries are in good working order then it is Canon playing silly buggers with the chips in the battery casings. Canon, and others, go to great lengths to make you buy their grossly over priced batteries. For example my 1DX uses 3 standard 18650 Lithium cells which cost about £3 to £5 each on the UK high street yet a pretty pack from Canon costs £129! It is a pretty casing but £120 for the casing!
If your chargers refuse to work just get a cheap 3rd part charger and be happy - still WAY cheaper!

I purchased an after market battery and it showed red status after few charges. Not sure if it was safe to use the in the camera so I pitched. Better to toss a cheap battery than to pay for expensive repair.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

Unfortunately there are some bad 3rd party batteries out there, or were? The last ones I bought were 2 for my 1DX and 2 for my 7D2. The former don't last very well (about 60%) and the meter doesn't work (original charger is fine though) but at 10% the price I am happy enough and use them as backups. It's too early to say but the 2 batteries for my 7D2 seem to be pretty good and function exactly as the originals.
Back when I was using the original Canon BP511 batteries I found the originals to be terrible, 3 died and one was VERY marginal after 2/3 years - the 5 3rd party ones all had more capacity than the originals and were still going strong after 8 years (pretty exceptional for Lithiums!).
There are bad batteries out there but I, personally, have only ever had bad ones from Canon???

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi John, RGF.
The funny thing is that the new aftermarket LP-E6N work perfectly on the new charger, the old LP-E6 work perfectly on the old charger but not the other way round. Yes probably Canon playing silly buggers with the chips, but if I were in their shoes I might make it a little hard for people, or at least force them to buy chipped batteries so that my charger might not set them on fire (or al least I could tell the fire chief I tried!).
I did buy a cheap battery charger, a copy of the Canon one (not half as heavy, but Canon may add a weight for correct feel, very little electronics in it, I looked) but it just flashes on and off rhythmically, no charge level indication from the led. I have no confidence to put a battery on it and trust it not to do something nasty, I guess I should have bought something distinctly different for maybe a bit more money. : Any suggestions?

Cheers, Graham.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Hi John, RGF.
The funny thing is that the new aftermarket LP-E6N work perfectly on the new charger, the old LP-E6 work perfectly on the old charger but not the other way round. Yes probably Canon playing silly buggers with the chips, but if I were in their shoes I might make it a little hard for people, or at least force them to buy chipped batteries so that my charger might not set them on fire (or al least I could tell the fire chief I tried!).
I did buy a cheap battery charger, a copy of the Canon one (not half as heavy, but Canon may add a weight for correct feel, very little electronics in it, I looked) but it just flashes on and off rhythmically, no charge level indication from the led. I have no confidence to put a battery on it and trust it not to do something nasty, I guess I should have bought something distinctly different for maybe a bit more money. : Any suggestions?



Cheers, Graham.

The third party chargers are more scary to me than the batteries. The charger must operate to very tight specifications, and a defective one can cause even a perfectly good battery to explode. Third party batteries from a reputable company do at least have the proper safety mechanisms to work with a charger. The fly by night brands are pot luck.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Mt Spokane.
I was concerned about the charger too, insert battery, observe operation, unfamiliar mode of operation for a few seconds, remove battery!
The charger came without instructions, but with a non compliant mains plug, no fuse and too small, I didn't use that at all, I just used one of the multitude of correct leads that I have around the place.
Not an expensive lesson but I learned it for <£5! :-[

Cheers, Graham.

 

[Sabaki]

I just charged two of my LP-E6Ns, one in my LP-E6 charger and one in my LP-E6N charger and both register as 100% in my 7Dii.

All my kit is from Canon SA, which is supplied by Canon Europe

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Sabaki.
Yes this only seems to be with the aftermarket batteries, the genuine LP-E6 and LP-E6N seem to charge interchangeably on each charger. My intention was to show that although the chargers (and batteries) are listed as completely forwards and backwards compatible with Canon batteries they must have changed things for my old aftermarket batteries to not charge in the new charger. My aftermarket LP-E6 batteries are old, long before the advent of the LP-E6N variety, so I guess the reverse engineered chips in those are not forward compatible!
Why did I go aftermarket, simple, cost, 2 new batteries for my grip and the grip for only slightly more than one new OEM battery.

Cheers, Graham.

 

[Sabaki]

Hi Graham

Thanks for the reply. PS, what is after market?

Paul

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Paul.
Aftermarket is another way of saying non genuine, or not OEM (original equipment manufacturer).

Cheers, Graham.

 

[arthurbikemad]

I've not read the whole thread so kick me if out of turn..

I use one of these for my E6's and E6N's, its great!

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-hahnel-procube-twin-dslr-charger/p1544393

 

[TeT]

go see on ebay

http://stores.ebay.com/HO-Sunny-2015?_rdc=1


not sure why you are having issues; but I have been buying all my canon batteries & chargers from this guy for several years.

 

[monkey44]

Often we see issues with AM equipment - and failure in one way or another. So, I wonder if the financial incentive makes sense in the long run. Buy OEM quality once, or buy AM quality twice and in addition leave open the door of failure when you need it most.

Personally, I always buy OEM equipment, just a habit from years in the field and minimal failure in the OEM equipment. Maybe just lucky in that respect, and I carry spares too, just in case.

I'm no tech whiz, but it makes sense that OEM designs incorporate minuscule differences that don't appear as apparent until we get to the microscopic level, or a three or four point decimal, but in technology, that might just make enough difference to make or break a once in a lifetime shot. I prefer to avoid that potential whenever possible.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi TeT.
Thanks for the link, as you have been buying from the seller you linked, are the items genuine, or counterfeit? (I only say counterfeit because they carry the Canon logo).

Hi monkey44.
I'm only a keen amateur and I have used an aftermarket grip and batteries (2 aftermarket, 1 OEM) on my 7D for the time I have had it and only one battery is showing less than 3 green boxes on the recharge performance and that is the Original Canon battery.
Therefore I'm not too convinced by the OEM battery reliability thing. I can understand a professional not wanting to take a risk with reliability.

Cheers, Graham.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

Often we see issues with AM equipment - and failure in one way or another. So, I wonder if the financial incentive makes sense in the long run. Buy OEM quality once, or buy AM quality twice and in addition leave open the door of failure when you need it most.

Personally, I always buy OEM equipment, just a habit from years in the field and minimal failure in the OEM equipment. Maybe just lucky in that respect, and I carry spares too, just in case.

I'm no tech whiz, but it makes sense that OEM designs incorporate minuscule differences that don't appear as apparent until we get to the microscopic level, or a three or four point decimal, but in technology, that might just make enough difference to make or break a once in a lifetime shot. I prefer to avoid that potential whenever possible.

The differences between the OEM packs and the 3rd party ones is that the Canon ones have chips in them programmed to stop you using 3rd party batteries and they also use older lower capacity individual cells (more reliable? Not in my experience!). The 3rd party manufacturers have cracked the programming of the chips and often incorporate higher quality and greater capacity cells. Unfortunately some 3rd party manufacturers just make them cheap and use inferior cell - price is not much of a guide.
With more recent batteries (LP-E4n and LP-E6n) I have not found ones that last quite as long as the Canon originals but they are a small fraction of the price so I am happy. In other words it's 5 LpP-E6 copies or one Canon or 10 Lp-E4n copies or one Canon - bit of a no brainier really.

P.S. I have had 4 battery packs fail on me = ALL were Canon originals never a 3rd party one, you won't catch me buying Canon batteries unless they come included with the camera!

 

[monkey44]

Hi TeT.
Thanks for the link, as you have been buying from the seller you linked, are the items genuine, or counterfeit? (I only say counterfeit because they carry the Canon logo).

Hi monkey44.
I'm only a keen amateur and I have used an aftermarket grip and batteries (2 aftermarket, 1 OEM) on my 7D for the time I have had it and only one battery is showing less than 3 green boxes on the recharge performance and that is the Original Canon battery.
Therefore I'm not too convinced by the OEM battery reliability thing. I can understand a professional not wanting to take a risk with reliability.

Cheers, Graham.

I agree to some degree -- however, it sometimes involves other AM equipment too, not just batteries. And when that happens, the interaction between AM lens, for example, and OE lens often do not operate as well as we hope. So, it's bigger than just a battery. It's true, more important for pros working for hire (well, freelance as well).

In the case of batteries, it means changing more often and the potential for failure -and, time changing batteries or lenses when working means less shots, and maybe missing the one that matters the most. Not trying to be a curmudgeon here either, because AM equipment can get some awesome shots as well ...

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi monkey44.
For sure if I could easily afford it I would go OEM all the way, as it is photography is one of two expensive hobbies competing for limited funds, owning and driving classic cars being the other. For what it's worth, I have had one small issue with the aftermarket grip on my original 7D which caused a lot of the main controls to freeze, removing and replacing the grip cured that and it has not reoccurred since but when it happened it did cost me a few minutes thinking about it, and working out how to get the shots I wanted, not a pro so an inconvenience rather than a deal breaker.
My Sigma zooms have been ok, 17-70 better than a kit lens, 150-500 more reach than I could possibly have afforded in Canon glass.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi TeT.
Thanks for the link, as you have been buying from the seller you linked, are the items genuine, or counterfeit? (I only say counterfeit because they carry the Canon logo).

Hi monkey44.
I'm only a keen amateur and I have used an aftermarket grip and batteries (2 aftermarket, 1 OEM) on my 7D for the time I have had it and only one battery is showing less than 3 green boxes on the recharge performance and that is the Original Canon battery.
Therefore I'm not too convinced by the OEM battery reliability thing. I can understand a professional not wanting to take a risk with reliability.

Cheers, Graham.

I agree to some degree -- however, it sometimes involves other AM equipment too, not just batteries. And when that happens, the interaction between AM lens, for example, and OE lens often do not operate as well as we hope. So, it's bigger than just a battery. It's true, more important for pros working for hire (well, freelance as well).

In the case of batteries, it means changing more often and the potential for failure -and, time changing batteries or lenses when working means less shots, and maybe missing the one that matters the most. Not trying to be a curmudgeon here either, because AM equipment can get some awesome shots as well ...

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Folks.
I have noticed a different condition exists, when I said the new aftermarket LP-E6N batteries were not achieving full charge on the old charger I was removing them imidiately the light went green, I have since left the new battery on the older charger for a while (20-30 mins) after the light went green, this time I had 100% showing.

Cheers, Graham.

 

[TeT]

Hi TeT.
Thanks for the link, as you have been buying from the seller you linked, are the items genuine, or counterfeit? (I only say counterfeit because they carry the Canon logo).

Hi monkey44.
I'm only a keen amateur and I have used an aftermarket grip and batteries (2 aftermarket, 1 OEM) on my 7D for the time I have had it and only one battery is showing less than 3 green boxes on the recharge performance and that is the Original Canon battery.
Therefore I'm not too convinced by the OEM battery reliability thing. I can understand a professional not wanting to take a risk with reliability.

Cheers, Graham.

I have been through every one of the FAKE/REAL comparison diagrams and pics that I can find and never found a wrinkle of difference. He has said they are from second factory, whatever that means (vague chinese to english translation) every one has operated exactly the same as an original battery/charger.

I rotate 3 batteries on my Canon 6D & 2 on my SL1. I numbered them after I had been using a less reliable way to sequence them. I cannot tell which ones came from the seller...