More on the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV in 2016 [CR2]

[ahsanford]

I'd suggest that the comment made was just sarcasm directed at the complainers - surely not serious!

Jack

Nope. There are actually some folks who associate AF modernity and efficacy with how many AF points it has. (I know, I know, don't get me started)

There may be a legit AF beef with the 5D3 on something very particular to what he/she shoots (say, Servo AF in a dark environment), but we haven't heard it yet.

And I generally don't associate people with less than 5 CR posts who dwell on 'everyone will leave to Sony/Nikon if they don't do what **I** want' as being particularly sarcastic. Sophomoric, perhaps, but not sarcastic.

- A

 

[jebrady03]

So my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to look up historical exchange rates for the Yen vs US Dollar.

On the day the 5D Mark III was announced (March 2nd, 2012) the USD price was $3500. That converts to 286319 Japanese Yen (JPY). If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY. The percent increase in price in the US for the 5D Mark IV over the 5D Mark III would be 35%. However, if the 5D Mark IV is announced at the same JPY (286319) then the USD price would be $2593. So, anything above $2593 would be a price hike for the 5D Mark IV (assuming the exchange rate on announcement day is the same as it is today, April 5th, 2016).

Similarly, the 6D was announced on September 17, 2012 for $2100 which converts to 165328 JPY on that particular day. If the 6D Mark II were announced for $2100, that would equate to 231976 JPY based on today's exchange rate which would be an increase of 40%. However, if it's announced for the equivalent of 165328, then the USD price would be $1497.

I think we all know that Canon USA won't announce the 5D Mark IV for $2593 and the 6D Mark II for $1497, it'll be higher, of course. But announcing them for $3500 and $2100 would, IMO, be cause for revolt. I, honest to god, would NOT buy either one and would actually contemplate leaving the ecosystem for that kind of "come here and bend over" treatment.

 

[scottkinfw]

Given the exchange rate differences between when the 5D Mark III launched and now, bringing the Mark IV to market at the same US dollar price point would represent a HUGE price increase. I wonder if the rumor origin was from Japan and what they mean is that the Japanese Yen price will remain the same, which would mean the price in the US would be lower than the launch price of the Mark III.
A launch price of $3500 would put it out of my hobby-budget.

Thanks for saying what I was thinking. Should launch at around $3100.

I see the math a little differently as an enthusiast. Everyone's budget is different, of course, but here's my perspective.

When I wanted to move to FF in 2012, it was either the 5D3 or a 5D2. I went big and got the 5D3 for... $3499, I believe? I love that camera, and as much as I slam up against the limits of it often, those limits are generally dictated by combinations of physics and limitations of lighting that I impose upon myself. I'm often shooting handheld at really high ISO, and I often shoot wide DR landscapes where NDs grad aren't appropriate and compositing multiple frames is either not possible due to wind or is more trouble than it's worth.

And that's why even if the 5D4's value proposition is (compared to my 5D3) is...

• WiFi (rumored)
• 4K video (rumored)
• Anti-flicker (a certainty)
• +1 stop higher ISO for the same level of noise (I'm just speculating here)
• +1 stop more DR at base ISO (speculating)
• +2 fps (speculating)
• 1DX II AF setup (speculating)
• Proper colored AF points in AI servo (surely they'll fix this)
• Interchangeable focus screens (speculating)

...I'm not convinced I'm going to buy it -- only the blue items above affect what I personally shoot. So I would see that spec sheet as a lovely incremental improvement, but I'd rather save my $3k+ (whatever the price turns out to be) for lenses this cycle and wait even longer for a 5D5. I'm not a pro who might lose business from missed shots in the dark, a flickering light, etc.

The 5D4 will sell very, very well -- I'm not knocking that list above one bit. I just don't personally value that list strongly enough over my wonderful 5D3 to part with nontrivial dollars for it.

- A

I suspect you will have a LONG WAIT!

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.

Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.

Yes, because everyone who has different needs from you obviously is not a real photographer :

Not even going to comment about the $400 part.

My passion is wildlife photography, and landscape photography. GPS would be lovely to so that I could find the exact spot to so that I could recreate pics years later, or when going to post, I can note exactly where the picture was taken.

So I see this as very useful, and when it is a chip on the pcb, it won't cost $400.00.

Now if you shoot only in a studio or a few venues, then it would be little to no use.

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.

This camera is going to be another 5D great.

I think 10 fps.

cant be 10fps cause your hurt 7d2 sales smh THINKKKK

You are hilarious. You may be right though. I think the 70D hurt 5D Mark III sales in the same way. : Silly Billy!

But, there might just be tens of thousands of folks with 7D Mark II cameras in mind to buy @ $1,499 who will make the leap to a 5DX for $3,500 for the same desired frame rate and no crop factor.

I would dance and be merry, life would be a ding-a-derry... if I only had a brain.

I just wish I could be as wise as you. Shame on me for thinking the 7D Mark II and the 5DX are in different market segments.

Sorry man. Please forgive me. Please? ???

Have a nice day!

Oh but you do. You do have a brain. What you need is a diploma!.......

Me thinks a trip to Oz is needed. He may even give you a 5DIV too!

 

[unfocused]

If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY.

Except it doesn't work that way.

Only a portion of the cost of producing a product is paid out in Yen. The home country currency is only valid for the portion of the product that is produced or paid out within the home country. And, even then it is far more complicated in a global economy.

A few examples:

Let's say the body uses magnesium that originates in another country. That magnesium must be purchased using the deflated Yen, so it it going to cost the company more for the same product than it costs when the Yen is strong. That raises their costs.

This is true for any component that is not manufactured in Japan. It must be purchased using weak Yen, so their costs for these components goes up, not down when the Yen is weak.

The cameras do not magically fly across the ocean under their own power. The company must pay to have them shipped. The shippers aren't going to discount their rates when the Yen is weak, so it will cost more Yen to ship the product.

Advertising, marketing, support, etc., etc., must be paid out in the currency of the country where that occurs. Canon USA's costs do not go down when the Yen is weak, so all those embedded costs are unaffected by currency fluctuations.

In addition, Japan is highly dependent on imports for many basic necessities of life. That means that when the Yen is weak, Japanese companies face pressure to boost wages to enable their employees to maintain the same standard of living. Wage hikes are almost always a one-way street (going up, seldom going down), so even their embedded in-country costs have no doubt risen over the past four years.

With a multi-national company operating on several continents in a global economy, it is simply not possible to make simplistic calculations on exchange rates and think it has any validity.

 

[Cthulhu]

This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.

This camera is going to be another 5D great.

I think 10 fps.

cant be 10fps cause your hurt 7d2 sales smh THINKKKK

Because people abandoning a $1500 camera for a $3500 camera strictly for fps reasons...

(a) ...would never happen.
(b) ...would not 'hurt' Canon whatsoever. They'd make a mint on the body upcharge plus all the pricier longer lenses you'd need to buy to get the crop reach back.
(c) ...implies there aren't other ways to get 10+ fps with other manufacturers.
(d) All of the above.

On the topic of fps, I think the 5D4 will get about 8 fps, which will help distinguish it from the 5DS/5DSR rigs and also represent a nice +2 fps bump to the 5D3 camp.

Could they handle more data than 8 fps? Of course. I'm not sure Canon wants to undercut 1DX II sales with a 10 fps FF rig for $3500, however. (That argument actually works. )

- A

If you shoot action 10 vs 14 is a huuuuuuge difference worth the price bump. Hell even 12 vs 14 is a big difference

 

[jebrady03]

If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY.

Except it doesn't work that way.

Only a portion of the cost of producing a product is paid out in Yen. The home country currency is only valid for the portion of the product that is produced or paid out within the home country. And, even then it is far more complicated in a global economy.

A few examples:

Let's say the body uses magnesium that originates in another country. That magnesium must be purchased using the deflated Yen, so it it going to cost the company more for the same product than it costs when the Yen is strong. That raises their costs.

This is true for any component that is not manufactured in Japan. It must be purchased using weak Yen, so their costs for these components goes up, not down when the Yen is weak.

The cameras do not magically fly across the ocean under their own power. The company must pay to have them shipped. The shippers aren't going to discount their rates when the Yen is weak, so it will cost more Yen to ship the product.

Advertising, marketing, support, etc., etc., must be paid out in the currency of the country where that occurs. Canon USA's costs do not go down when the Yen is weak, so all those embedded costs are unaffected by currency fluctuations.

In addition, Japan is highly dependent on imports for many basic necessities of life. That means that when the Yen is weak, Japanese companies face pressure to boost wages to enable their employees to maintain the same standard of living. Wage hikes are almost always a one-way street (going up, seldom going down), so even their embedded in-country costs have no doubt risen over the past four years.

With a multi-national company operating on several continents in a global economy, it is simply not possible to make simplistic calculations on exchange rates and think it has any validity.

Yes, but this was in the context of an earlier post of mine, as well as the original post by CR saying the price would stay the same. I said if the Yen price stayed the same, that's one thing. But if the dollar price stayed the same, that would be something completely different. Also, I noted that I didn't expect the prices to be $2600 and $1500, but I don't think it would be fair to charge $2100 and $3500.

Also, the cost of raw materials, especially for a camera, is not likely to be as significant a factor as you're making it out to be. Raw material costs have little to do with final product cost to the consumer, except to determine profit margin/loss. Realistically, competition and market segmentation are FAR more influential on the final cost to the consumer.

 

[jrista]

October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.

Really, people? It doesn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's simply about getting the camera finished? Do you really think there's a 5D4 design ready for manufacture waiting on a server somewhere at Canon and some moustache-twirling executives are just sitting on it?

Damn the sense of entitlement of some people here...

The 5D III was a "little" late going by the previous timeframe between body releases, and it had people up in arms. The 5D IV is WAY late going by the same schedule, and competitors have released numerous new, competitive and usually far more exciting cameras in the mean time. I'd call the reaction of people who have been patiently waiting for the update for all this extra time, and use these cameras to make their living, only to find it STILL won't be ready for them to buy and use when they need it most, quite muted.

Personally, if the 5D IV hits with the features I think it desperately needs, in particular improved DR, I think this will finally be the camera that the 5D III should have been over four years ago. When you consider people were waiting for class-leading DR back when the 5D III was released, that is some seven years of waiting... I think people are justified in being just a little upset if they need the camera before it will be released, and will have to wait yet another year to buy one.

 

[unfocused]

...Realistically, competition and market segmentation are FAR more influential on the final cost to the consumer.

Agreed. I apologize if I took your comments out of context or unintentionally distorted them. My main point is that people often oversimplify and overgeneralize when it comes to exchange rates. These days any multinational company is going to face dozens of conflicting pressures on their cost of production, because no product is made in a vacuum today.

I expect the biggest influence on the 5D IV price will be the price of comparable Nikon and Sony bodies.

 

[Jack Douglas]

And what good does being upset do? Other than giving indigestion.

It's not like Canon is going to alter its process if we're impatient.

Jack

 

[Ozarker]

So my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to look up historical exchange rates for the Yen vs US Dollar.

On the day the 5D Mark III was announced (March 2nd, 2012) the USD price was $3500. That converts to 286319 Japanese Yen (JPY). If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY. The percent increase in price in the US for the 5D Mark IV over the 5D Mark III would be 35%. However, if the 5D Mark IV is announced at the same JPY (286319) then the USD price would be $2593. So, anything above $2593 would be a price hike for the 5D Mark IV (assuming the exchange rate on announcement day is the same as it is today, April 5th, 2016).

Similarly, the 6D was announced on September 17, 2012 for $2100 which converts to 165328 JPY on that particular day. If the 6D Mark II were announced for $2100, that would equate to 231976 JPY based on today's exchange rate which would be an increase of 40%. However, if it's announced for the equivalent of 165328, then the USD price would be $1497.

I think we all know that Canon USA won't announce the 5D Mark IV for $2593 and the 6D Mark II for $1497, it'll be higher, of course. But announcing them for $3500 and $2100 would, IMO, be cause for revolt. I, honest to god, would NOT buy either one and would actually contemplate leaving the ecosystem for that kind of "come here and bend over" treatment.

For all the talk and speculation about exchange rates... the price charged is there to fit the market. The price for the Japanese people is far higher than it was for the 5D Mark III because their currency has been devalued so badly. Basing OUR cost and tying it to yen/dollar exchange rates makes very little sense to me. The Japanese have not increased our cost significantly at all. In fact, adjusting for inflation, our costs have come down. It takes far more of their yen to buy one of our dollars. It is not the case that because their currency is in the toilet we should be paying less. They are hurting because of the exchange rate, not benefiting.

Also, lets not forget that Japan has to import many of their raw materials for manufacturing. Those raw materials cost them far more now with their weak yen than the materials cost several years ago.

It is the strengthening dollar that holds our cost down, not the weakening yen.

Thinking that we are somehow being ripped off because the yen is weak is silly. We are benefiting greatly because the yen is so weak. Imagine the cost of a Japanese product if the currencies were at parity?

Look at what has happened in Canada with lenses. The Canadian currency has gotten weak. It takes more Canadian $ to buy the product.

Expecting the new product to launch for similar or less than the old product is silly too.

 

[shutterfreek]

I own a couple of markIII's. I shoot tons of Weddings, Portraits, a ton of Commercial, etc. However, I shoot equally as much video as I do stills. I think anyone married to Canon, and being this type of shooter, has been EAGERLY wanting to add higher video frame rates, and more video resolution to their arsenal without having to adopt sony, panasonic, red, or black magic into the family. The 1DmarkII suddenly became a solution, but for the money, is more fps than I'll ever need in the type of multi-media business I run (and wouldn't work well with a Ronin, which I love). So...in my oppinion..the mark IV seems to be the perfect answer for anyone toggling equally between both the photog & video worlds. I'm so excited I can't stand it. Thanks CanonRumors. Addicted to the site.

 

[OneTrueKing]

I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.

 

[Maiaibing]

4 years cycle will put people like myself who like to "jump" camera body generations in a dilemma - keep your DSLR for 8 years...or get the latest and greatest???

8 years is an almost impossible long time for an electronic device.

 

[Untitled]

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the final spec for this camera will turn out to be.

I've been using my wonderful 50d for about 6 years and want to move up to full frame. But, October is a little too long a wait for me. I think I'll buy the 6d, they're very good value at the moment, and see how I feel about the 5d Mk iv in a couple of years when the price has most likely dropped a few hundred pounds.

Very sorely tempted by the Pentax K1 though.

 

[gsealy]

I own a couple of markIII's. I shoot tons of Weddings, Portraits, a ton of Commercial, etc. However, I shoot equally as much video as I do stills. I think anyone married to Canon, and being this type of shooter, has been EAGERLY wanting to add higher video frame rates, and more video resolution to their arsenal without having to adopt sony, panasonic, red, or black magic into the family. The 1DmarkII suddenly became a solution, but for the money, is more fps than I'll ever need in the type of multi-media business I run (and wouldn't work well with a Ronin, which I love). So...in my oppinion..the mark IV seems to be the perfect answer for anyone toggling equally between both the photog & video worlds. I'm so excited I can't stand it. Thanks CanonRumors. Addicted to the site.

I am very similar to you with regard to 'toggling' as you put it. I like the 5DIII because it is such a versatile camera. To me, that represents a lot of value. I am hoping that the 5DIV improves on the 1DxII video specs by supporting true 10 bit and external 4K recording to say an Atomos, as the current 5DIII does now for HD (yes, I know the 5DIII is 8 bit). Maybe as we are looking at a fall release, then we will get those things.

 

[Mac Duderson]

STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement.
I also think last time when they announced the 1Dx and 5D3 close together was a huge mistake. :-[

As a wedding/port/commercial photographer my buddies and I were all super excited with the 1Dx when it was announced and were all considering finally upgrading to the 1Dx.
But then they released the 5D3. Poof we all dropped the 1Dx. Canon almost had all of us but then lost all of us with the 5D3. I'd say they kinda shot themselves in the foot. ???
And becasue of that I think it's hurting their 1Dx2 sales now. None of us even batted an eye at the 1Dx2 becasue we thought the 5D4 was going to follow shortly after. In fact the only reason we were excited the 1Dx2 was announced is to NOT BUY IT becasue it just told us the cheaper version was coming out shortly after ha ha!

However now that wedding season is here I'm FINALLY starting to look at the 1Dx2 but now I have no preorder fixed so who know when I would even get one if I did order. If one was to order the 1Dx2 and only receive it in the fall after our wedding season is closing then I may as well just start the new year with a 5D4.
I'm not a canon fanboy but I kinda feel bad for them to be honest. If a few of my friends and I did this how many others did the same.

 

[whothafunk]

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

 

[RickWagoner]

October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.

Really, people? It doesn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's simply about getting the camera finished? Do you really think there's a 5D4 design ready for manufacture waiting on a server somewhere at Canon and some moustache-twirling executives are just sitting on it?

Damn the sense of entitlement of some people here...

The technology that goes into the 5d4 was already hard baked as of no later than late last year. There will be nothing in the 5d4 that isn't already in the 1dx2 and/or 80d. It's just a matter of packaging. Canon obsessively protect their higher end (read fattest margin) products, so unlike 2012, this cycle they wont release the newest 5d body until the newest 1dx sales have tapered off. It's all about money, pure and simple.

with all due respect good sir please allow me to correct you on a few things.

The most profitable or fattest margin cameras are the lower end bodies. So much so the flagship is there more or less as a bragging point for a company. What pays for the R&D and all the tooling for the flagship body is the Rebel and lower end bodies. When you sell more you have to make more, when you make more it is cheaper per piece to manufacture short term and long term. Also R&D is not cheap, esp for the new features the higher end bodies get. It could cost Canon hundreds of thousands of dollars for the seals on the 1DX just in researching all the different mixtures, thickness, what exact mixture and thickness works better for areas that flex a lot like buttons, what exact mixture and thickness works better for areas the don't flex a lot like a body gap, and on and on. The Canon engineers at Canon HQ are not professionals on rubber seals, they have to contract other companies to consultant, then design, then test just a silly rubber seal. After all that cost Canon HQ will only go and pick what rubber they feel is right for the camera, draw up prototype seals and maybe bodies then contract other companies all over the world to test the shizzle out of them. And please don't think after all this work and money a silly rubber seal costs a few pennies to make and it is profit highway for Canon after, you're wrong. Those seals might cost a few pennies but they still need to be tested and tested and that is right tested. Only good thing is Canon won't change a flagship body from one model to the nest that much so all that money invested at the beginning will slowly pay for itself and with all the knowledge they have from all that work can go into other lower end bodies to some extent later on.

Now a Canon T5 does not have to go through this seal cost along with many other costs for other parts. Canon well sell ten of thousands of t5s easily to every ten 1dx's they sell. They have to invest way more heavily in marketing for a higher end body vs the cheaper cameras, Cheaper cameras are in front of everyone at best buys and walmarts..these people just buy it without second thought were as a higher end body is is not even in stores in lots of places because the town may not have a dedicated camera store.

IF it was all about money Canon would not make a flagship camera. If it was all about Money Canon would not test and research at all. If it was all about money Canon would be rushing out new bodies every year loaded with features that won't work. Nikon likes to do something like this, but to be fair they do a fair amount of testing before hand, maybe not as much piece by piece testing like Canon does. This is why you see lots of recalls for Nikons or delays in shipments. Sony does very little piece testing, which is why they have cameras with 10fps but no buffer or cameras that can shoot 4k but get overheated. Sony don't care because they will release a new model soon and everyone will forget the last model, but sadly so will the used sales also screwing the owners.

So after throwing down thousands of dollars of your own money do you want the camera to work? Do you want that little seal on the bottom to rot after a year and just the slightest moisture gets in and fries you camera? Do you want your thousands of dollars to be worthless in two years because it is two models back with by then well known problems?