More on the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV in 2016 [CR2]

[unfocused]

Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans...

...that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.

So yeah, bad timing canon.

Might be bad timing for Canon, but sounds like great timing for you. You can purchase the latest 5D for a great price now, then take your time upgrading to the 5DIV, if you feel it is worthwhile. Which means you won't have to pay the early adopter premium, you get to shoot another season with the best available wedding camera, and can sell one of the 5Ds to help offset the cost of the 5DIV without losing much money.

 

[unfocused]

Looks like I'll be picking up a 1DXII

This is the option I'm leaning towards. I'll wait until the 5D IV is announced, as I don't need the 1D X II until indoor sports season starts up next fall/winter. By that time, there will have been plenty of reviews of the ID X, so I will know what I'm getting. I'll be able to see if the 5DIV might meet my needs (probably won't). I'll know if the sports portion of my workload is sufficient to justify the purchase, I'll have some time to arrange my finances and I can see if any good deals surface on the 1D X II. (Looking at the Canon Price Watch near straight line price history of the 1D X I, I sort of doubt I'll see much in the way of bargains. It doesn't seem like the 1D series drops much in price until it is near the end of cycle -- unlike other models).

 

[ahsanford]

STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement.
I also think last time when they announced the 1Dx and 5D3 close together was a huge mistake. :-[

They were not announced that close together -- it was 5-6 months apart, wasn't it?

I seem to recall that the earthquake/tsunami in 2011 had a lot to do with the overlap of their time of actually shipping/release, which was quite close, wasn't it?

- A

 

[j-nord]

I think the price point will be in the $2999.99 - $3299.99 range. Consumers are used to the previous introductory MSRP of $3500 so a few 100 less is all they have to do to get attention in the US market. The average consumer is completely oblivious to R&D costs, material costs, mfg costs, and currency conversions. They just know the last version cost X and so the new version will probably cost X or X+. If instead it costs a little less than X, that will make most people happy. Further Canon has to pad the MSRP in the event the currency starts to go the other way and happily take the profits in the mean time.

 

[pierlux]

STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement.
I also think last time when they announced the 1Dx and 5D3 close together was a huge mistake. :-[

They were not announced that close together -- it was 5-6 months apart, wasn't it?

I seem to recall that the earthquake/tsunami in 2011 had a lot to do with the overlap of their time of actually shipping/release, which was quite close, wasn't it?

- A

Precisely. Late fall availability seems to be the norm for the 5D line.

 

[ahsanford]

Okay, so summarizing this thread:

1) Wedding season is ruined.

2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :

3) Whatever it is priced, it will sell well ...yet many will be butt-hurt about the price anyway. Revolts are imminent, apparently.

4) Canon will totally nerf the 5D4's frame rate to protect 7D2 sales: because someone said so.

5) Everyone will leave to Nikon unless the AF points triple and it has 17 stops of low ISO DR.

6) I believe I counted zero childish see-saw arguments about tilty-flippy-touchy vs. rigid LCD screens. (Well done, people!)

Did I miss anything?

- A

 

[pierlux]

Okay, so summarizing this thread:

1) Wedding season is ruined.

2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :

3) Whatever it is priced, it will sell well ...yet many will be butt-hurt about the price anyway. Revolts are imminent, apparently.

4) Canon will totally nerf the 5D4's frame rate to protect 7D2 sales: because someone said so.

5) Everyone will leave to Nikon unless the AF points triple and it has 17 stops of low ISO DR.

6) I believe I counted zero childish see-saw arguments about tilty-flippy-touchy vs. rigid LCD screens. (Well done, people!)

Did I miss anything?

- A

Yes. Canon are doomed.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Okay, so summarizing this thread:

1) Wedding season is ruined.

2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :

3) Whatever it is priced, it will sell well ...yet many will be butt-hurt about the price anyway. Revolts are imminent, apparently.

4) Canon will totally nerf the 5D4's frame rate to protect 7D2 sales: because someone said so.

5) Everyone will leave to Nikon unless the AF points triple and it has 17 stops of low ISO DR.

6) I believe I counted zero childish see-saw arguments about tilty-flippy-touchy vs. rigid LCD screens. (Well done, people!)

Did I miss anything?

- A

Yes. Canon are doomed.

LOL. Literally!

 

[Ozarker]

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?

 

[jeffa4444]

Announcement:
5D was October.
5D II was November.
5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
Why complain/surprise for an October - November launch?

Price:
5D III was higher than 5D II, but feature-wise it was a giant leap ahead with respect to its predecessor. The AF module alone justified the price increase, but other features were also added/improved. The 5D to 5D II iteration was essentially a matter of sensor resolution, and video features which came at nearly zero cost. I expect the 5D IV to be cheaper (not by much) at launch than the 5D III, similarly to what happened with the 1D X to 1D X II iteration.

Features:
4K and CFast most likely.
GPS most likely, I'd say for sure.
WiFi... don't know, I doubt it. I'd welcome it, I see a lot of ways to circumvent the magnesium alloy body shielding problem without invalidating the weather proofing (detachable screw-in antenna, external non-protruding antenna surrounding the display like a thin frame, plastic antenna band(s) like the iPhone... you name it.

5D was announced on 22nd August 2005
5D MKII announced on 17th September 2008 (at Photokina I was at the launch event)
5D MKIII announced on 2nd March 2012

 

[unfocused]

...However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?

Perhaps Mr. Funk stated it poorly, but I believe he has a valid point. I think this might be more accurate:

... 2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :

10 fps may sound like it is significantly under the 1D X II, but in practice, if Canon feels the need to differentiate the products on that front, 8 fps is more reasonable. I use the 7DII for sports because of the better autofoucs and faster frame rate (10 fps). The 5DIII is simply too slow, but 10 fps is very fast. I am not sure the additional fps of the 1DX II will make much difference and I'm pretty sure that a 10 fps 5DIII (if it has better autofocus as well) would cut into 1D X sales -- indeed that will be a major factor driving my decision.

 

[ahsanford]

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?

10 fps is an 'emotional' threshold we associate with the 1D line. ...until the 7D2 got 10 fps.

I still think Canon will put about 8 fps on the 5D4 -- enough to differentiate from the 5DS rigs, but not so fast as to be a '1DX II lite' for FF action/sports shooters.

But could they go with 10 fps on the 5D4? Sure, I guess, but I just don't think they will.

- A

 

[pierlux]

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?

It's not only marketing: it may likely be physics. Remember: SINGLE Digic. Since it will probably be higher MP count than the 5D III, not even Digic 7 will be capable of safely handling 10 fps. It's not only a matter of processing capability, but also a matter of safely processing data, i.e. no overheating and no excessive current drain from a single LP6n battery. 7D II is dual Digic 6.

 

[j-nord]

10 fps is an 'emotional' threshold we associate with the 1D line. ...until the 7D2 got 10 fps.

I still think Canon will put about 8 fps on the 5D4 -- enough to differentiate from the 5DS rigs, but not so fast as to be a '1DX II lite' for FF action/sports shooters.

But could they go with 10 fps on the 5D4? Sure, I guess, but I just don't think they will.
- A

I agree that 8fps +/- 1 is most likely. It also depends on the mpix. If they are adding big boost in mpix, say to 30 then 10fps seems extremely unlikely. Maybe they will add a more useable 'sport mode' where its 30ish mpix by default or a 20ish mpix crop mode for higher fps.

 

[ahsanford]

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.

Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?

It's not only marketing: it may likely be physics. Remember: SINGLE Digic. Since it will probably be higher MP count than the 5D III, not even Digic 7 will be capable of safely handling 10 fps. It's not only a matter of processing capability, but also a matter of safely processing data, i.e. no overheating and no excessive current drain from a single LP6n battery. 7D II is dual Digic 6.

Yep. Let's talk about that:

1DX = Digic x2
5D3 = Digic x1
7D2 = Digic x2
1DX II = Digic x2
5D4 = ???

Is a single chip a certainty on the 5D4?

Can someone explain to me why another ~ $3500 rig (the 5DS rigs) gets two chips to move a massive amount of data (50 MP x 5 fps) yet the 5D4 would not? Heck, for that matter, why does the 7D2 get the ability to move all that data but the 5D4 does not?

I don't see why something in the same throughput of the 5DS, say (25-28 MP) X (8-10 fps) with two chips wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.

- A

 

[pierlux]

Announcement:
5D was October.
5D II was November.
5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
Why complain/surprise for an October - November launch?

Price:
5D III was higher than 5D II, but feature-wise it was a giant leap ahead with respect to its predecessor. The AF module alone justified the price increase, but other features were also added/improved. The 5D to 5D II iteration was essentially a matter of sensor resolution, and video features which came at nearly zero cost. I expect the 5D IV to be cheaper (not by much) at launch than the 5D III, similarly to what happened with the 1D X to 1D X II iteration.

Features:
4K and CFast most likely.
GPS most likely, I'd say for sure.
WiFi... don't know, I doubt it. I'd welcome it, I see a lot of ways to circumvent the magnesium alloy body shielding problem without invalidating the weather proofing (detachable screw-in antenna, external non-protruding antenna surrounding the display like a thin frame, plastic antenna band(s) like the iPhone... you name it.

5D was announced on 22nd August 2005
5D MKII announced on 17th September 2008 (at Photokina I was at the launch event)
5D MKIII announced on 2nd March 2012

You're right. I stand corrected, apologies. I should have written "Availability" instead of "Announcement". Damn hurry...

 

[cayenne]

I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.

Why is the prediction for CFast and SD instead of CFast and CF card combination?

Cayenne

 

[ahsanford]

I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.

Why is the prediction for CFast and SD instead of CFast and CF card combination?

Cayenne

File this one under 'flippy screen vs. rigid LCD' as an unwinnable situation for Canon. Offering the 60% position of a 60/40 market split still leaves 40% of people out in the cold. Points to Nikon for offering swappable modules (or was it just different bodies) for preferred memory type on the D5.

As an enthusiast, I honestly prefer the convenience of SD -- SD readers are everywhere and make it easier to share pictures when I'm traveling -- no need for card readers and such. But, in fairness, I don't lean on the shutter button and tax my cards like others might. I'm guessing I'm in the minority in preferring SD.

However, the addition of on-board WiFi with the 5D4 (if true) might lessen the reliance on SD, one would think.

- A

 

[pierlux]

Yep. Let's talk about that:

1DX = Digic x2
5D3 = Digic x1
7D2 = Digic x2
1DX II = Digic x2
5D4 = ???

Is a single chip a certainty on the 5D4?

I guess not, but it's highly probable.

Can someone explain to me why another ~ $3500 rig (the 5DS rigs) gets two chips to move a massive amount of data (50 MP x 5 fps) yet the 5D4 would not? Heck, for that matter, why does the 7D2 get the ability to move all that data but the 5D4 does not?

I'm afraid only Canon can answer this question. Perhaps, Canon simply feared that 50 MP @ 2.5 fps on a single Digic could have represented a sentence of doom. ;D

I don't see why something in the same throughput of the 5DS, say (25-28 MP) X (8-10 fps) with two chips wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.

I think 25-28 MP @ 7-8 fps on a single Digic 7 is a reasonable expectation. 10 fps probably not. But, concerning why not dual Digic inside the 5D IV, we fall back in the domain of pure marketing strategy. Note that I'm speculating, only Canon knows. Of course I wouldn't complain if it was dual Digic, it's only that I highly doubt it.

 

[RickWagoner]

There is a bunch of factors that go into fps. Shutter operation life, Mirror system design, Focus system, Data handling like a buffer for example, how much data is being sent, memory card speed, battery life, etc. Each of these can be affected by other operations in the camera, like for example is you're full manual but have auto ISO then your buffer rate will take a hit and that will affect how the mirror flip works.

I would not compare a 7d2 fps to a full frame as the mirror system in under a completely different load on a smaller mirror and also a smaller shutter for a smaller sensor.

If Canon would to put a 10fps burst speed in the next 5D then they either have to invest in a new mirror and shutter system, borrow one from the 1dx, or create a hybrid of both. Borrowing may be the least in cost and R&D at first but may cost much more in production. Creating a new system would cost lots of money and time to make sure it is ready for prime time, creating a hybrid is the best option as it won't need as much money invested but still lots of testing time. Is this one feature worth so much in the next 5D? Remember Canon still has to work this out with the other parts that are affected by a 10fps burst.

What i do know is Canon most likely down rated the 5D3 fps in software for quality and reliability. Like German cars detune HP and Torque from their engines via software. Most likely the 5D3 can do a 7fps burst and all the parts inside can handle it, maybe even 8fps. Even in the older parts they are using in the camera.

With todays parts they could put a 9fps burst but most likely will detune it to 8fps or 7fps in software for quality and reliability. If i had to guess it i would go 7-8 fps max and would be surprised they go 9 fps even with a battery grip.