More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV
- Thread starter rushfan21122
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Sharlin said:
Ok. Then how does any camera ever achieve focus in Live View? How does any MILC camera ever achieve focus? How then does the Dual Pixel Auto Focus manage to stay locked on target in Live View with moving subjects so you can video now in (what amount to) Servo AF?
Hint: The pixels DO have to do something in Live View before the exposure/shutter goes off.
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ahsanford said:
You might disagree but you can only say I am wrong if the sales figures point to it being a mistake for Canon.
All releases bring on a tidal wave of 'dead in the water' 'Canon are doomed' posts, I am surprised at the relatively few number of those posts so far with this release of specs. I am certain the 5D MkIV will be a big success which will prove Canon are right.
Besides, after the release of the 5DS/R why did anybody buy a 5D MkIII? They have different priorities and price points. This will be true of the 5D MkIV and the 5DS?R MkII, they will have the same differentiation's, AA filter, video specs, price, blah blah blah.
Canon have said in interviews that they are very cost conscious, the 5D MkIV has to come in at a price point. The 5DS/R is a more niche product and as such isn't as cost constrained, people that feel they need one will pay the premium. The 5D is a popular but built to a budget cost constrained camera, it always has been. They might be more upmarket than the Rebels but they have the same kind of cost control. Meanwhile those modest Rebels make the bulk of the profits for Canon in DSLR sales, but only because of extreme attention to costs.
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3kramd5 said:
I'm not worried about DPAF as it relates to shadow recovery. That was RRCPHOTO misunderstanding the previous comments by LetTheRightLensIn and myself. We (and I'm sure others) had hoped that the DPAF was a dual-ISO type technology, just hardware based, as that is what some of the initial leaks interpreted.
However, we now know that DPAF has nothing to do with dynamic range at all, so all of our hopes for some dramatic DR improvement now rest solely on the sensor alone. As to whether or not the 5D4 can match the performance of the Exmor, is all we're getting at.
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PureClassA said:
Because the CPU(s) processes the data it receives from the photosites. All they are doing is turning light into electrons, whether the task is capturing an image, metering, or focusing. That's all they CAN do - the CPU(s) then has to manipulate that data to perform the required task. They don't do anything different depending on the task, they just do the one job they know how to do - turn light into electrons representing the light.
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ahsanford said:
I doubt that will happen. Canon likes their niches. 5Ds series is about resolution. I am not sure how far they will go for the next generation, but moving all that data will limit fps and high ISO range. My guess is that the 5Ds xx will consistently be in the 5-6 fps range even in future generations.
For the 5DIV I was hoping for 8 fps. But, I am not that concerned over 7 fps. The 5DIII is already a great camera, and Canon has incrementally improved pretty much EVERYTHING. That becomes very significant.
It actually gets a little nutty. I almost never feel limited by my 5DIII and yet now there will be a camera that is essentially better across the board. Focus points that are f/8 and lower EV. Touch screen, 30.4 MP, better low ISO DR (assumed improvement in noise floor), 7 fps, DPAF in Liveview, DP RAW processing, better video (almost never use, but, you know, cool), faster write speeds to the freakin' SD card, wifi, GPS, NFC, antiflicker, Magic Lantern stuff like timelapse movie, intervalometer, etc, etc.
If they've increased the buffer size this is really getting to be my perfect camera.
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rrcphoto said:
True. Sony sensors are already limited mostly by shot noise and not readout noise.
The only gain we could hope for is a true ISO 25 or 50 setting. The D810 is close to that and works well for added DR to the images.
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rrcphoto said:
I'm just going off what was first reported by Canon Rumors about the new sensor tech. So, I'm not barking up anything... just repeating what was initially reported.
“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.”
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tr573 said:
BEFORE the shutter. BEFORE the exposure is made. (remember...shutters are electronic now, it's NOT the curtain) Whether shooting stills or shooting video, in Live View mode, focus is achieved without the 61pt AF system. The mirror is up, the curtain is down, the sensor is fully visable. The sensor has its own second focusing system that is employed in lieu of using the 61 AF points we can see when using the OVF. Dual Pixel AF enhanced the reliability of this sensor based AF system by splitting pixels. YES, once the shutter "opened" and the exposure is underway, nothing further happens. But that sensor DOES focus assist when the 61pt AF is not used. Pre-DPAF, you could lock focus ONCE when you were in live view before the shot. Once video began, no more AF. DPAF now lets us continually focus in Live View. I think perhaps you are confusing shutter with curtain and mirror? Not sure.
Back to the original point, once the mirror and curtain are up and the sensor is exposed, will the live view focusing system of the sensor have to engage in order to use this new feature? My bet is yes. So it will probably be Live View function ONLY if you want DP RAW stills
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PureClassA said:
you are making this more complicated than what it is.
during a normal exposure and AF both PD's are collecting light.
what is different is what the camera DOES with that. for normal imaging, the pair is summed and output as one value. For AF, the difference between the two is read to determine phase difference.
what canon is doing here is simply providing BOTH values at the same time, or now doing the summation off sensor.
it doesn't matter whether it's OVF,etc or not.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
justsomedude said:
That wasn't "reported" it was a quote from a tweet by some random guy named "Thomas" on the Internet. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet and don't assume that anything on a site with "Rumors" in its name are 100% accurate.
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justsomedude said:
well, for starters that's not how dual pixel works. and you're not repeating facts, simply CR taking someone from twitter that had a theory.
and btw, dual pixel is in the 1DX Mark II, the 80D, the 70D and the 7D Mark II .. this isn't new tech. what canon is doing with the data. is.
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PureClassA said:
No, it does not. The sensor in this case, just like in all others, turns the light into electrons, and then the CPU decides what to do with that data. Sometimes the CPU uses that data to assemble an image, sometimes it uses it to determine phase difference for focusing, and sometimes it uses it to meter the scene.
PureClassA said:
You should not have to, because the image sensor is collecting the exact same data regardless of whether you are in live view or not, it's just what the CPU does with the data afterwards.
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unfocused said:
The actual quote from the original Canon Rumors blog post / spec list is as follows...
ever possible to no post-processing of the adjustment dual pixel RAW file (bad translation)
“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.”
Many, including those on this forum, assumed it was some type of technology aimed at improving DR, and it sparked some interesting conversation.
That theory has since been proven incorrect as more information on the Dual Pixel RAW has come out.
I'm not really sure why that progression of information/discussion is getting your panties in twist.
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justsomedude said:
of course you skip the (thanks Thomas) which linked the twitter comment...
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and most people dismissed that right away because it would have made 3:1 images, and because of the CFA .. what he was suggesting was kind of impossible.
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GMCPhotographics
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ahsanford said:
It's to do with the throughput of data that the chip /s can sustain. Each generation of Digic allows roughly 1.5x more data through put than the last generation of chip. A dual chip also allows roughly 1.5x more data than a single chip. So a single Digic 6 has similar data capabilities of a dual Digic 5. If the camera needs a lot of throughput and the single chip can't handle it then a dual chip is employed.
Things get a little more complicated with each generation of chips as there a normal and + types. So there is a Digic 5, a 5+, a Dual 5 and a Dual 5+. A 5DIII has a single Digic 5+. a 5D4 is rumoured to have a single Digic 6+. In theory a single chip uses less power and generates less heat. But a dual chip arrangement allows roughly 1.5x the data.
So lets crunch some cigarette packet numbers:
1Dx has a dual Digic 5+, 18.1mp x 12fps = 217.2 mp/s.
5D3 has a sing;e Digic 5+, 22.3mp x 6fps = 133.8 mp/s.
5D4 has a single Digic 6+, 30.4mp x 7fps = 212.8 mp/s...very simular figures to the 1Dx throughput.
5DS has dual Digic 6 already...so we have to wait for a Dual Digic 7 to be available...or they go Dual Digic 6+.
In theory, a Dual Digic 6+ should be good for around 325mb/s. But so far the 1DxII has only utilised 282.8mp/s of that figure. So the most capped camera at the moment in terms of through put is the 1DxII at the moment. The processor is far more capable than the camera that Canon wrapped it in.
The Dual Digic 6 in the 5Ds is only 253mp/s. In the 7DII, the same Dual Digic 6 is only utilising 202mp/s.
So the chips are often under utilised, but shows the max these cameras could be capable of.
It's possible using a fully clocked Dual 6+ to offer 325mp/s...or 50.6mp x 6.4fps. Or 65mp x 5 fps. It was possible for the 1DxII to clock 23mp x 14fps. So I wonder why they didn't go for it.
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tr573 said:
So then what exactly is telling my lens to focus while in live view when i press the AF button? I'm selecting a point in live view. The sensor is feeding live data to a processor but the sensor itself has now become a million different AF points. With Dual Pixel Auto Focus it has become even more accurate and also allows for active focusing during video. The Digic Chip may be making the decisions to move the lens and achieve focus, but the Pixels themselves are now being used as AF points. Same basic process as using 61pt AF. That data is fed to Digic as well. That's what I'm getting at. And if the sub-pixels are going to be read out separately, I can't see how you can do that without the DPAF pixels themselves being used as the AF points. I think maybe we are both largely in agreement and just perhaps saying in different ways.
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