More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

[gregory4000]

No, and probably for good reason. Admit it. it isn't Canon's strong point.

 

[Sharlin]

They don't have a habit of mentioning other sorts of quantitative measurements either in their marketing (and this is a rumor, not marketing, anyway). Qualitatively, they did mention "increased exposure latitude" in the 80D and 1DX2 marketing material.

 

[tpatana]

"Dual Pixel RAW"

had hope it would be more to do with DR but, as I sort of guess, by the name they gave it, nope

I hope this camera performs great, but I'm suspicious the DR won't match Exmor and the video quality won't match Sony (much less that of any Nikon D820 or possible A7R III next year) so for those finicky about that stuff, we'll see....

I'm admittedly a bit of a sensor/shadow nit, and with the descriptions of "Dual Pixel RAW" coming out, I am now also concerned about low-light/shadow-recovery performance compared with Exmor.

*sigh*

I'm hoping for the best, and waiting for some good image samples before I pre-order.

C'mon Canon... you really gotta get this one right!

why? apparently the 1DX Mark II is perfectly fine in that regard.

This is not a 1DX2. And we still don't know what sensor the 5D4 is getting.

But what about DPAF worries you about shadow recovery? Are they related in any way?

nothing, a few had just hope the talk about dual pixel RAW might mean something else (although using the term "dual pixel" did make it doubtful)

At the risk of getting my hopes up over unconfirmed capabilities, if Canon T Engineer called me up as said "two options: 1. we increase the DR of your 5D by 2EV, or 2. we enable you to adjust the focus in post by up to approximately an eyelash's length, I'd jump at the second option. Jump. For my usage, that would save far more photos than would be made possible by the additional range.

My eyelash or her eyelash?

 

[gregory4000]

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping for a good improvement in this spec, I will be the reason for me to purchase the 5DIV. My hunch is that if the camera had 14 stops, Canon wouldn't miss the opportunity to monopolize on it knowing that many fans would be very pleased with this improvement. Maybe it has the extra DR and there waiting a week or two to tell us

 

[tpatana]

Only 7 FPS though? That's only 1 faster than the mark 3 (which is pretty damn slow) - Everything else looks good but 8-9 FPS would of made a nice difference.

Go buy 1dx then or 7d2... canon has given you options.

I liked the suggestion that the 5DIII at 6 fps is "pretty damn slow". It's a helluva lot faster than a thumb...

Ever heard of Left-Handed Mike?

 

[3kramd5]

"Dual Pixel RAW"

had hope it would be more to do with DR but, as I sort of guess, by the name they gave it, nope

I hope this camera performs great, but I'm suspicious the DR won't match Exmor and the video quality won't match Sony (much less that of any Nikon D820 or possible A7R III next year) so for those finicky about that stuff, we'll see....

I'm admittedly a bit of a sensor/shadow nit, and with the descriptions of "Dual Pixel RAW" coming out, I am now also concerned about low-light/shadow-recovery performance compared with Exmor.

*sigh*

I'm hoping for the best, and waiting for some good image samples before I pre-order.

C'mon Canon... you really gotta get this one right!

why? apparently the 1DX Mark II is perfectly fine in that regard.

This is not a 1DX2. And we still don't know what sensor the 5D4 is getting.

But what about DPAF worries you about shadow recovery? Are they related in any way?

nothing, a few had just hope the talk about dual pixel RAW might mean something else (although using the term "dual pixel" did make it doubtful)

At the risk of getting my hopes up over unconfirmed capabilities, if Canon T Engineer called me up as said "two options: 1. we increase the DR of your 5D by 2EV, or 2. we enable you to adjust the focus in post by up to approximately an eyelash's length, I'd jump at the second option. Jump. For my usage, that would save far more photos than would be made possible by the additional range.

My eyelash or her eyelash?

Median human eyelash

 

[K]

I'm expecting the dynamic range to be better than the 80D, but weaker than the 1DX2.

It is very hard to imagine the 5D4's sensor besting the 1DX2 sensor on anything except for megapixels.

At ISO 100, they will all be close, but the fall off (curve) will be between 80D and 1DX2. That's my guess.

 

[K]

Does anybody who supports Canon notice that why Canon neglected to state the DR of the camera,
On the C300 they boasted 15 stops. I sold my Sony A7rII to purchase a home and I'm waiting for something from Canon as a replacement that will have a Sony DR. With Canon's well established R&D I'm expecting by now 14 -15 stops of DR. That fact that its not mentioned concerns me that little improvement has been made.
Hopefully in a couple of weeks I will be pleasantly surprised with good news in this spec.

You're going to be disappointed. 5D4 will not break 14 stops. Does it stand to reason it will not surpass the 1DX2 which doesn't reach 14 stops? My guess is it won't beat the 1DX2 sensor on anything except for resolution.

Canon does have the tech. The Sony people who bash Canon as a company are wrong. Canon produces imaging products for military, aerospace, medical and high end commercial applications. They have some of the best sensor tech in the world, if not the best.

The key is, Canon doesn't immediately trickle down their best tech to DSLR cameras. Sony offers up 14.8 stops on a consumer product. Canon has sensor tech above 15 stops, just not in a DSLR. Maybe Sony's ability to scale that technology at a consumer level is better? Who knows. But Canon puts out highly advanced imaging.


Back when the 1DX2 sensor was tested and RAW files hit the web - I told a lot of people, if you're not happy with the sensor performance of the 1DX2, don't expect anything better from the 5D4. Don't wait around for it.

I hope I'm wrong. I will be very happy to be wrong. I think I will be right.


Dynamic Range shoppers out to wait for the D820/D850/D900 whatever it will be called. It will have that 14.8 stops give or take, and should upgrade the D810 in areas that were keeping it back. Such as FPS.


Heck, even if Nikon kept the same exact 36mp sensor, and just increases to 7 FPS, adds a few little bells and whistles - it will be a killer camera. Everyone knows the major downside to the D810 was the 5 fps. Beyond that, it was a nearly perfect DSLR, other than the typical Nikon annoyances of the Nikon ecosystem. If you're ok with Nikon, none of that is a bother. In other words, they don't hold performance back. Increase FPS, add in all the new wifi stuff and connectivity, anti-flicker...that shouldn't be too hard for Nikon, and they will still remain competitive against the 5D series....


The short of it is, if you want nearly 15 stops DR at ISO 64, Sony sensor is what you want. Literally for everything else, Canon is a superior choice.

 

[3kramd5]

Sony offers up 14.8 stops on a consumer product.

Which product? The sensor PhaseOne uses for the XF?

Heck, even if Nikon kept the same exact 36mp sensor, and just increases to 7 FPS, adds a few little bells and whistles - it will be a killer camera. Everyone knows the major downside to the D810 was the 5 fps. Beyond that, it was a nearly perfect DSLR, other than the typical Nikon annoyances of the Nikon ecosystem. If you're ok with Nikon, none of that is a bother. In other words, they don't hold performance back. Increase FPS, add in all the new wifi stuff and connectivity, anti-flicker...that shouldn't be too hard for Nikon, and they will still remain competitive against the 5D series....

Per sony, that sensor is only good for 4.8FPS (I assume Nikon rounded up for their specsheet). It can do more in crop mode, but at full readout, it's ... difficult to imagine Nikon getting it to work 45% faster.

http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/

 

[mikekx102]

I haven't invested in CF cards as I have a 6D, but I'm wondering which cards would provide the highest speed.

Can we expect the SD card slot to be full speed UHS-II? The 5D mark iii didn't support UHS-I and was limited to 133x (20MB/s), which is why it is so important to use CF cards. The 6D was released later and supported UHS-I, and card tests at the time showed many cards transferring at 35-36 MB/s. UHS-II has been released and the fastest SD card I can find is the Lexar Professional 2000x UHS-II SDXC which is 300MB/s. As opposed to available CF cards max speed of 160MB/s.

That same SD card in tests has shown extended write speeds of 250MB/s, could we expect to buy this card and get that speed in the 5D mark IV? For someone that has no CF cards already, this sounds like the best choice. And if Magic Lantern ever affords Raw 4K, then I would definitely like the fastest card available

 

[unfocused]

At the risk of getting my hopes up over unconfirmed capabilities, if Canon T Engineer called me up and said "two options: 1. we increase the DR of your 5D by 2EV, or 2. we enable you to adjust the focus in post by up to approximately an eyelash's length, I'd jump at the second option. Jump. For my usage, that would save far more photos than would be made possible by the additional range.

I second this. If DP RAW means getting even minor light-field capabilities, the 5D line is another big innovation by Canon...

I'd even go so far as to say I'd gladly pay for a firmware upgrade that would add this capability to the 7DII and 1Dx II.

 

[3kramd5]

At the risk of getting my hopes up over unconfirmed capabilities, if Canon T Engineer called me up and said "two options: 1. we increase the DR of your 5D by 2EV, or 2. we enable you to adjust the focus in post by up to approximately an eyelash's length, I'd jump at the second option. Jump. For my usage, that would save far more photos than would be made possible by the additional range.

I second this. If DP RAW means getting even minor light-field capabilities, the 5D line is another big innovation by Canon...

I'd even go so far as to say I'd gladly pay for a firmware upgrade that would add this capability to the 7DII and 1Dx II.

Agreed. I suspect the 1Dx2 has compatible hardware (but like they did with the DPAF in the c100, they could sit on it for a while and see how it is received in a cheaper camera market). Being quite a bit older the 7D2 could very easily lack the hardware to write out data from the sibpixels, but you never know.

Assuming it is real, if it works well enough to salvage barely-missed focus, it could be a game changer for people photographers.

 

[Dave Del Real]

I'd even go so far as to say I'd gladly pay for a firmware upgrade that would add this capability to the 7DII and 1Dx II.

I'd pay for a firmware update to the 7D2 to allow 4K video.

 

[Wesley]

Does anybody who supports Canon notice that why Canon neglected to state the DR of the camera,
On the C300 they boasted 15 stops. I sold my Sony A7rII to purchase a home and I'm waiting for something from Canon as a replacement that will have a Sony DR. With Canon's well established R&D I'm expecting by now 14 -15 stops of DR. That fact that its not mentioned concerns me that little improvement has been made.
Hopefully in a couple of weeks I will be pleasantly surprised with good news in this spec.

The 1DX-II already has Sony DR and then some albeit lower MP and sharpness. I'm assuming it still has an AA filter.

You also have a lot bigger issue at hand financially if you had to sell a camera to buy a home...

 

[Wesley]

At the risk of getting my hopes up over unconfirmed capabilities, if Canon T Engineer called me up as said "two options: 1. we increase the DR of your 5D by 2EV, or 2. we enable you to adjust the focus in post by up to approximately an eyelash's length, I'd jump at the second option. Jump. For my usage, that would save far more photos than would be made possible by the additional range.

Do you have your AF calibrated?
Saving photos by changing focus within eyelash length seems more like a back/front focus issue.
I'd rather calibrate than shoot double the image size & use Canon DPP.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 1DX-II already has Sony DR and then some albeit lower MP and sharpness.

You need to compare at the same scale and use the Print not Screen option, so no, compared fairly, it does not.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I'm expecting the dynamic range to be better than the 80D, but weaker than the 1DX2.

It is very hard to imagine the 5D4's sensor besting the 1DX2 sensor on anything except for megapixels.

At ISO 100, they will all be close, but the fall off (curve) will be between 80D and 1DX2. That's my guess.

weaker than the 1DX2 sensor for DR? The landscape body you think should come in weaker than the 1DX2 which itself is still far from state of the art?

 

[Wesley]

The 1DX-II already has Sony DR and then some albeit lower MP and sharpness.

You need to compare at the same scale and use the Print not Screen option, so no, compared fairly, it does not.

I was not aware that you can get more DR by downsizing the image...this is true? ???

 

[rrcphoto]

The 1DX-II already has Sony DR and then some albeit lower MP and sharpness.

You need to compare at the same scale and use the Print not Screen option, so no, compared fairly, it does not.

the difference is nelligable.

canon is within .5EV of the A7RII pixel per pixel.

it's certainly within diminishing returns and simply now data differences for the fangirls and measurbaters.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

sure if you want to wear a tin foil hat and assume that for some reason the 80D improvements and the 1DX Mark II improvements vanish with the 5D mark IV even though it uses the same styled of sensor.

so there's almost a great deal of likelihood that the improvements seen on the 1Dx MarK II will carry forward.

to think otherwise, is pretty weird.

it's precisely the 1DX2 and 80D that have us worried! they don't match Exmor even of a few years ago never mind currently or in the next year or two and more importantly, they just don't quite add enough to comfortably pull off lots of landscape stuff where you need more DR while the Exmor stuff now just manages enough

The 1DxII has more DR at base ISO than the D5, and that is its only direct competitor. So other cameras have more - they aren't in the same category, so they aren't really relevant.

Given your comments here are relentlessly negative, why not just give up and accept the 5D4 isn't for you (whatever they do, it won't be enough), and buy a D810 or its successor?

I've already partly given up and gotten a Sony and haven't purchased anything of any sort from Canon in a while now. I may eventually just have to go all Nikon but it would be nice to be able to stick with my lenses (which are a little bit nicer from Canon plus swapping super-tele over, especially having got back when they didn't cost as much, is a pretty vicious hit the pocket) and the Canon UI, but I'm more and more thinking it's hopeless to think Canon will ever bother to really catch Sony for sensors or video again. Hopefully Nikon won't bungle up the video in the D820 and give it full A7R II or better video. An A7R II (or even some III tech by then) in a DSLR body, without any video/liveview bungling by Nikon, would be one heck of nice thing. Anyway at least Sony makes stuff that works with adapted Canon lenses for now. A pain in a few ways and a pain in that it can't do it all so still need the 5D3 for more action type stuff, but man the A7R II does deliver.

I still had a bit of hope for the 5D4 again, but have less hope now that neither 80D nor 1DX2 can deliver exmor and it sounds like the 5D4 video won't oversample (or have something new like 10bits to make up for other stuff) and probably won't have 100% focus box or any other basic usability features. Hope they pull it off, but they just seem to have turned into such a conservative company. I still recall the day they became followers and I knew it would be trouble for the future. Way back at the show in Europe where their rep was bragging about how Canon was the king of the hill and Canon didn't have to bother, we are years ahead of Nikon who can't even make FF, so why should we bother, we are kings of the hill, Nikon will never catch us, nobody can catch us, why do we need to improve FF body peformance, we are the kings, we ARE THE KINGS OF THE HILL AND WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!!!!!!! if anyone does something we have so much time to react so we have no need to do anything! Why do we need to do anything! We are kings of the hill!!!!

Yeah well infinitely far behind Nikon came out with FF less than a year later and Sony now wipes Canon for sensors every which way. And everyone wipes them for video. Ah whatever, just a shame, as I really do like Canon, but what can you do. They wanna sit and milk and be followers, as kings I guess they can, just have to move on, not the Canon I long knew though, oh well.

Anyway maybe somehow there will be a nice surprise. Not really counting on it anymore, but see what they produce.

And the reason I started going negative way back was so that we'd never end up in this position years later where Canon ended up totally blowing their dominance in sensors and video (don't forget how for the entire early period of DSLRs it was the sensors that brought people to Canon as their bodies often had worse features (if much nicer UI), but man they had those amazing sensors, the Canon crowd used to always go on about the sensors and then for a while it was the same for DSLR video (if you can deal with really annoying mega RAW files, 5D3 with ML RAW does deliver pretty fine 1080p video and is still tops and again, only thanks to ML, gets the critical basic usability features, so ML kinda saved the 5D3 regarding video, but RAW video is a real storage killer and eventually gets to be a bit of a drag, but you can get some very fine 1080p video out of it you go through the trouble, you can even do relatively unique things like produce wide gamut video; one wonders if 5D4 ever gets those capabilites, it could easily be and stay worse to use and much worse for 1080p if adding 4k which is of course awesome).