New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]

[NormanBates]

Then again there is a problem, if a "cheap FF" will be born at 7D's price point, it could be "the end" for the 7D. I wouldn't buy a crop camera over FF for the same price. Would you?

Yes, if I needed better AF and a faster burst mode

but you're right: that may be a relatively small market

 

[Loswr]

Then again there is a problem, if a "cheap FF" will be born at 7D's price point, it could be "the end" for the 7D. I wouldn't buy a crop camera over FF for the same price. Would you?

Yes, if I needed better AF and a faster burst mode

but you're right: that may be a relatively small market

Canon isn't foolish - they'll want to keep a high-end crop camera. Lots of people upgrading from a Rebel/xxxD or an xxD will have EF-S lenses, and they've shown there's a demand for a top-of-the-line in the APS-C segment. The 5DII AF is already a handicap. If they release a 'cheap' FF camera, it will have many handicaps compared to the 7D line (not just a weak AF, but likely xxD build, probably only 3 fps, etc.).

Let's be honest here - many of us, as consumers, want a FF camera with pro AF, enough MP for a decent 1.3x or 1.6x mode, 8-10 fps, excellent build, and priced under $3K. Could Canon build such a camera? I bet they could. Will they? Of course not. Their goal is not to make us happy, it's to make money and turn a profit for their shareholders. As such, they will fragment the market to the largest extent possible, so they have something in every price category yet leave room for people to aspire to the next one up the line. Have $1K - get an xxD, but not the best APS-C. Have $1.5K, get a 7D, best APS-C but not FF. Have $2.5K - get a 5DII, FF but slow and weak AF. Have $4K - get a 7D and a 5DII, great combination, but then you have two camera to carry, or choose one to take out. Have $5K - get the APS-H compromise, some great features, but not FF. Have $7K, get the 1DsIV (hopefully, we'll see that next, please!) - it's the top of the line. But then you need longer lenses.

 

[adhocphotographer]

Let's be honest here - many of us, as consumers, want a FF camera with pro AF, enough MP for a decent 1.3x or 1.6x mode, 8-10 fps, excellent build, and priced under $3K. Could Canon build such a camera? I bet they could. Will they? Of course not. Their goal is not to make us happy, it's to make money and turn a profit for their shareholders. As such, they will fragment the market to the largest extent possible, so they have something in every price category yet leave room for people to aspire to the next one up the line. Have $1K - get an xxD, but not the best APS-C. Have $1.5K, get a 7D, best APS-C but not FF. Have $2.5K - get a 5DII, FF but slow and weak AF. Have $4K - get a 7D and a 5DII, great combination, but then you have two camera to carry, or choose one to take out. Have $5K - get the APS-H compromise, some great features, but not FF. Have $7K, get the 1DsIV (hopefully, we'll see that next, please!) - it's the top of the line. But then you need longer lenses.

Agreed... whatever appears in the next month (or 6) will be planned to form a similar segmented market...

So roll on the next body announcments and bring on a new round of speculation...

 

[gmrza]

Then again there is a problem, if a "cheap FF" will be born at 7D's price point, it could be "the end" for the 7D. I wouldn't buy a crop camera over FF for the same price. Would you?

Yes, if I needed better AF and a faster burst mode

but you're right: that may be a relatively small market

Canon isn't foolish - they'll want to keep a high-end crop camera. Lots of people upgrading from a Rebel/xxxD or an xxD will have EF-S lenses, and they've shown there's a demand for a top-of-the-line in the APS-C segment. The 5DII AF is already a handicap. If they release a 'cheap' FF camera, it will have many handicaps compared to the 7D line (not just a weak AF, but likely xxD build, probably only 3 fps, etc.).

I think the 7D also has an important place for wildlife photographers. I don't have a lot of experience with shooting wildlife, but I would say that the 7D makes a good choice for working on foot in areas where you have to carry everything, including your tent on your back. Canon will need to keep a high end APS-C camera to compete with Nikon and Sony.

 

[ecka]

Then again there is a problem, if a "cheap FF" will be born at 7D's price point, it could be "the end" for the 7D. I wouldn't buy a crop camera over FF for the same price. Would you?

Yes, if I needed better AF and a faster burst mode

but you're right: that may be a relatively small market

Canon isn't foolish - they'll want to keep a high-end crop camera. Lots of people upgrading from a Rebel/xxxD or an xxD will have EF-S lenses, and they've shown there's a demand for a top-of-the-line in the APS-C segment. The 5DII AF is already a handicap. If they release a 'cheap' FF camera, it will have many handicaps compared to the 7D line (not just a weak AF, but likely xxD build, probably only 3 fps, etc.).

Let's be honest here - many of us, as consumers, want a FF camera with pro AF, enough MP for a decent 1.3x or 1.6x mode, 8-10 fps, excellent build, and priced under $3K. Could Canon build such a camera? I bet they could. Will they? Of course not. Their goal is not to make us happy, it's to make money and turn a profit for their shareholders. As such, they will fragment the market to the largest extent possible, so they have something in every price category yet leave room for people to aspire to the next one up the line. Have $1K - get an xxD, but not the best APS-C. Have $1.5K, get a 7D, best APS-C but not FF. Have $2.5K - get a 5DII, FF but slow and weak AF. Have $4K - get a 7D and a 5DII, great combination, but then you have two camera to carry, or choose one to take out. Have $5K - get the APS-H compromise, some great features, but not FF. Have $7K, get the 1DsIV (hopefully, we'll see that next, please!) - it's the top of the line. But then you need longer lenses.

That's exactly my point. Combine FF sensor with 60D body + 60D AF + 3fps and it's already better than 5D2, isn't it? However, Canon could produce a mirrorless FF camera at $2000 price point with the intention to please the videography market, while killing the M4/3 and NEX (even Leica?) at the same time. Why don't they?

EDIT:
Talking about the longer lenses. FF body with a teleconverter would give you similar (or better) result to what a crop body is capable of.

 

[Tiho]

Combine FF sensor with 60D body + 60D AF + 3fps and it's already better than 5D2, isn't it?

You´ll get FF with the same AF, worse fps + worse build quality. How is that better than 5D2?

 

[EYEONE]

Combine FF sensor with 60D body + 60D AF + 3fps and it's already better than 5D2, isn't it?

You´ll get FF with the same AF, worse fps + worse build quality. How is that better than 5D2?

Actually the 5DII only has 1 cross type AF point while the 60D has 9. So the 60D, technically, has the surperior AF system. But it's kinda like a race between two turtles...

 

[ecka]

Combine FF sensor with 60D body + 60D AF + 3fps and it's already better than 5D2, isn't it?

You´ll get FF with the same AF, worse fps + worse build quality. How is that better than 5D2?

Well, obviously, it would have a new FF sensor, Digic5 and 60D AF is actually better. I forgot that 5D2 has 3.9fps, not 3fps, I meant to make those equal. I'm sure that for $1500 it would sell like hot cakes and nobody would care about "worse build quality".

 

[caruser]

Couldn't they jump just a bit over this boring market segmentation thing and bring out a 5D3 with the 7D's AF just to sell more big glass?

 

[Canon 14-24]

Any potential lens rumors that will come with the new eos body?

 

[K-amps]

I keep coming to this thread and see how Lack of any news/ leaks from Canon has all of us in a Frenzy here... now THAT's marketing ;D

 

[Picsfor]

Do not think it is a 5D3, Jessops seem quite ok with stock. As are they with 60D and 7D. 1D seemed a bit more suspect...

 

[EYEONE]

Any potential lens rumors that will come with the new eos body?

I'd love a 14-24mm f2.8L as your name suggests

 

[Stuart]

I keep coming to this thread and see how Lack of any news/ leaks from Canon has all of us in a Frenzy here... now THAT's marketing ;D

+1, i've also bee doing my own google searches and canon news feeds hoping for somethin CR guy may have missed - can't find anything.

I couldn't afford anything up towards the high end anyway -- yet i'm still bothered - grrr, why is that?

 

[niko]

Canon isn't foolish - they'll want to keep a high-end crop camera. Lots of people upgrading from a Rebel/xxxD or an xxD will have EF-S lenses, and they've shown there's a demand for a top-of-the-line in the APS-C segment. The 5DII AF is already a handicap. If they release a 'cheap' FF camera, it will have many handicaps compared to the 7D line (not just a weak AF, but likely xxD build, probably only 3 fps, etc.).

Let's be honest here - many of us, as consumers, want a FF camera with pro AF, enough MP for a decent 1.3x or 1.6x mode, 8-10 fps, excellent build, and priced under $3K. Could Canon build such a camera? I bet they could. Will they? Of course not. Their goal is not to make us happy, it's to make money and turn a profit for their shareholders. As such, they will fragment the market to the largest extent possible, so they have something in every price category yet leave room for people to aspire to the next one up the line. Have $1K - get an xxD, but not the best APS-C. Have $1.5K, get a 7D, best APS-C but not FF. Have $2.5K - get a 5DII, FF but slow and weak AF. Have $4K - get a 7D and a 5DII, great combination, but then you have two camera to carry, or choose one to take out. Have $5K - get the APS-H compromise, some great features, but not FF. Have $7K, get the 1DsIV (hopefully, we'll see that next, please!) - it's the top of the line. But then you need longer lenses.

Therein lies the problem for Canon. The current strategy of segmentation (and handicapping) may no longer work, as other competitors have upped the pressure, and really taken advantage by offering more advanced features in the bodies that compete in the (higher priced) market segments.

I for one believe that a response/course correction is (over)due from Canon and that should become clear in the
(hopefully very) near future.

 

[moreorless]

Therein lies the problem for Canon. The current strategy of segmentation (and handicapping) may no longer work, as other competitors have upped the pressure, and really taken advantage by offering more advanced features in the bodies that compete in the (higher priced) market segments.

I for one believe that a response/course correction is (over)due from Canon and that should become clear in the
(hopefully very) near future.

I wouldnt be supprized if Canon kept the same tactics but shifted advances downwards. With AF for ever they could go from 1D/1Ds merged body with full pro AF to the 5D mk3 with 7D AF and a budget FF "6D" with basic AF. The same could happen with the Crop bodies with the 7D mk2 getting full pro AF to set it appart from the 5D mk3 and the xxD the 7D's AF to set it appart from the xxxD's that remain basic.

If you merge the 1D/1Ds then superior FPS could be another way to differentiate it from the 5D mk3 to make up for the AF standards being closer.

 

[K-amps]

I keep coming to this thread and see how Lack of any news/ leaks from Canon has all of us in a Frenzy here... now THAT's marketing ;D

+1, i've also bee doing my own google searches and canon news feeds hoping for somethin CR guy may have missed - can't find anything.

I couldn't afford anything up towards the high end anyway -- yet i'm still bothered - grrr, why is that?

And someone just smited me for that observation... :-X

 

[nikkito]

I keep coming to this thread and see how Lack of any news/ leaks from Canon has all of us in a Frenzy here... now THAT's marketing ;D

+1, i've also bee doing my own google searches and canon news feeds hoping for somethin CR guy may have missed - can't find anything.

I couldn't afford anything up towards the high end anyway -- yet i'm still bothered - grrr, why is that?

you're not alone, guys ;D 8)

 

[kirillica]

To answer what Canon can or can't, I will post one quote from friend of mine:

Why microwave owen manufactures can't put a small battery in it, so clock won't resettled each time it's out of electricity. Sure they can. But then they have no goals to "achieve".

The same thing is happening now. Sure Canon and other parties can do a lot of good things. But they will run out of ideas (or "achievements") very soon. And even the next camera is a huge jump in technology (comparing with one was produced 3 years ago), it still has a lot of things "to be improved" in the feature.

 

[K-amps]

I keep coming to this thread and see how Lack of any news/ leaks from Canon has all of us in a Frenzy here... now THAT's marketing ;D

+1, i've also bee doing my own google searches and canon news feeds hoping for somethin CR guy may have missed - can't find anything.

I couldn't afford anything up towards the high end anyway -- yet i'm still bothered - grrr, why is that?

I tell you what... maybe we can pick up used 5d2/ 7d's at great prices once neuroanatomist upgrades to the new bodies.