New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]

[Sabaki]

Maybe the 7Dii has a built-in grip and has dropped the flash...

THIS! I'd love this for the 7Dii!

 

[traveller]

....

however I'm not sure about this rumor.

This rumor makes it sound like "Canon came and visited us with a new camera that we got to look at and try."

If that is the case, Canon will know exactly who it is (or have a very short list.) If they signed an NDA ... and even if they didn't, I suspect that Canon would look unfavourably on this kind of disclosure - UNLESS it was specifically asked about and agreed to.

Additionally, any professional (working in a studio where Canon visits you is going to mean you're seriously good) is going to know that the colour accuracy of a file when viewed on a laptop screen is highly dependent on the ability of the screen to represent colour itself and without being able to use the images on a calibrated screen, the colours seen on some random laptop mean nothing.

I'd be almost prepared to call this rumor a hoax.

Its more the fine color transitions and discrimination they are referring to and fine color detail, that is different than accuracy (which depends a lot on the color profile used to develop and matching white balance and so on and so forth).

And maybe they were told to leak talk about amazing colors regardless of what they could see on the laptop.

In that case it comes back to my point of they were specifically allowed to "leak" certain details. i.e. it's not a leak but rather marketing designed to look like a leak.

If I wanted to read a website that's little more than a mouthpiece for a camera manufacturer, I'd read Sony Alpha Rumors! ;-)

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Canon often do this kind of thing so that their products are fully tested by trusted professionals and they get the feed back their development engineers need. If they don't do this 1D4 fiascos are likely to occurr. While this kind of leak plays to our emotions, it is necessary for the developement of better camera models. But it is also kind of cool, becuase we get to hear very loose by telling information about prototypes which are currently in devleopment. We know (via other rumours) that Canon have a sensor patent / design which uses a different arrangement of the traditional bayer RGB array. It's likely that this new sensor is a test bed for that particular patent / technology and it appears to be an improvement over the current tech.
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them. Amusingly, Canon have more lenses in that bracket, than Nikon currently do...Canon's new 24-70IIL is the sharpest zoom lens so far from any brand. When Canon finally releases a camera body with this kind of MP count, there will be a lot of lenses to match the sensor's capabilies, where as Nikon have very few lenses which can match their current sensor tech. Most of their lenses do not optically resolve much over 22mp.
I think this new camera's sensor point to a more efficient use of the RGB array and probably the removal of the AA filter to create sharper and clearer details with the same resolution of 22mp. If this is the case, the new camera could easily match the D800's sharpness and detail but at a more effficient 22mp. the improvement in colour rendition sound good and i only hope that Canon have employed a simular supporting sensor design to achieve the same (if not better) shadow noise pushability in their raw files. This isn't an expanded DR as some have claimed, it's purely a better control of iso noise in the shadow areas of a raw file. Where as Canon files tend to break up and display banding with the same level of pushing in the shadows.
one could argue that the scene was incorrectly exposed in the first place...but the fact remains, Nikon / Sony currently have a 1.5 stop advantage in this single feature on their sensors. All the other features are a lot closer than the marketing / spin doctors would let you belive.

 

[Quackator]

About the special laptop: That for sure ran a prerelease version
of DPP with the new camera included. And how to judge color accuracy?
Simple: Process pictures from a current camera as well and compare.

 

[expatinasia]

Maybe it is the 7D II and the body is just to throw everyone, I mean they could hide a 7D Mark II in a 1D X but you could never hide a 1D X in a 7D!

You don't think a studio photographer would notice the crop factor?

Of course, you are assuming the new 7D Mark II is crop and not full frame.

Still this rumour is only CR1, so maybe they were testing a new Sony Sensor!!

 

[Loswr]

There's an intellectual property term called 'teaching away', meaning it's ok to make public information that's basically the opposite of what you are really doing. So, from a purposeful leak about 'better color' we can infer this new camera has a monochrome sensor.

 

[Rick]

Do what?

Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

 

[Lightmaster]

Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

examples speak louder then words.

still sensor + lens is more important then just the sensors.
DXO wrote a nice article about that.

36mp can render more details than 22mp.. well what a suprise.

people claim they can clearly hear the difference between 196 or 256kbit MP3 and 320kbit MP3.. only when you test them (under studio conditions) they can not.
the german CT magazin had done such a test under studio conditons with "gold ears" (audio engineers and selfclaimed audiophiles) and nobody was able to get more right then you would with pure guessing. well one guy who has a hearing disability got 64% right.
that´s because he reacted to the MP3 compression different (because MP3´s auditory masking is made for the average human).

so what i want to say... some stuff is clearly just in peoples imagination.

 

[privatebydesign]

3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).

I'd like to see examples of that, I once had a very acrimonious thread conversation with a guy who swore he could tell medium format film images from 135 format digital images at 800px, turned out he couldn't. But I'd still like to see some examples of the D800 at 1800 showing "clearly" better resolution.

 

[AG]

I would like to see a 1DX mk2 or 5Dmk4 both have the ability to shoot 4K video as well.

The issue i can see though wont be heat, but instead justifying the 1DC and its over inflated price tag.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Do what?

3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. But I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine image in front of you.

Much of the fine detail in the natural world consists of repetitive patterns – bird feathers, animal fur, fern fronds, etc. I wonder if you are perceiving moiré as enhanced detail.

It's easy to make unsubstantiated claims on the Internet. Show us some 1800x1200 pictures...

 

[rs]

Re: Do what?

3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).

How wrong my assumptions are. I was under the impression that if you have two images, both taken with lenses and sensors capable of exceeding 2.1 MP by a big margin, and then output them at a resolution of just 2.1 MP, the resolution would be the same.

Still, what does logic mean when you can throw in a good dose of moiré which can create false information, corrupting the image at any size?

 

[Ivar]

I don't have any more the 5D2 (with similar resolution as the 5D3) but to me the image quality with crappy Nikon zoom lens in front of the D800 looks rather great at 100% - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4299.msg146875#msg146875

Here's another one, hand held (well a wall is used for partial support). So much about the useless camera which can be used only on a tripod deciding by this forum:

And with a 3D feeling:

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Re: Do what?

Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

Whhhhaaaattt???? You mean that DXO labs have lied to me...again????? Nooooooooooo

Mean while....in a galaxy far far away......

 

[Loswr]

Re: Do what?

a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'. They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image. It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason.

 

[pedro]

The image files were very similar in size to the EOS 5D Mark III’s 22mp files, but exhibited “much” better colour accuracy and detail. This camera is supposedly for later this year or early next year.


This means better color filter and not so thin CFA as they have now , where reds going towards orange as one example and regarding the resolution a lighter AA-filter on none as Nikon.

People who have used a 1DSmk3 and the first 5D knows the difference in the color filter which was steaper and also means less light to the sensor and poorer high iso performance.

Interesting to see what Canon has done and if they can match better sensors like Sonys in color depth, dynamic range .

If it is for next year, I dare to guess that it might be the 5DIV or they give it another year of product cycle and introduce an 1Ds ish body...who knows...As I am looking forward to a 5DV there remains quite some time for me ;-) The 5D3 still rocks!

 

[rrcphoto]

fwiw, I agree with Dilbert. Seems borderline inconceivable that someone reviewing a laptop image could reliably conclude that color rendition was "much better." Sounds "hoaxy" to me... Regardless, I'd be thrilled to see a sub 30 mp canon camera with much better color rendition, dynamic range and/or noise performance.

you've never seen a dreamcolor based laptop? or heard of hooking and external monitor to one?

 

[privatebydesign]

I don't have any more the 5D2 (with similar resolution as the 5D3) but to me the image quality with crappy Nikon zoom lens in front of the D800 looks rather great at 100% - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4299.msg146875#msg146875

Here's another one, hand held (well a wall is used for partial support). So much about the useless camera which can be used only on a tripod deciding by this forum:

And with a 3D feeling:

Ivar,

Whilst there is no doubt the 36mp D800E can resolve more detail in certain situations with certain lenses than a 24mp 5D MkIII, your examples are not good and don't demonstrate that, you are confusing what you can see, which is nice, with what the numbers say you should see, which is a hell of a lot more than you can. Anything over base iso, and 3200 isn't base, impacts resolution, that isn't a Canon fanboy comment, it is a fact. As for a "3D look" that is farcical, the image is the image, if you shot the same image at the same time with any camera from the same place with the same fov, dof, etc then it would look the same, maybe a touch of the clarity slider for lenses that lack multicoatings and contrast, but that is all.

There are differences between the two manufacturers systems, but your examples don't demonstrate those differences.

 

[Zv]

Re: Do what?

a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'. They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image. It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason.

What you wright is total nonsense, for anyone who like real, natural, virtually-analog capture.
It is total nonsense for anyone who wants rugged data that doesn't depend on luck of alignment of pixels and subject transients, and survives geometrical processing like CA, distortion, and perspective correction, rotation, and arbitrary resampling in practically lossless manner.

??? Huh?? You've lost me there. Are you just throwing random photographic words together?

 

[Loswr]

Re: Do what?

a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'. They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image. It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason.

What you wright is total nonsense, for anyone who like real, natural, virtually-analog capture.
It is total nonsense for anyone who wants rugged data that doesn't depend on luck of alignment of pixels and subject transients, and survives geometrical processing like CA, distortion, and perspective correction, rotation, and arbitrary resampling in practically lossless manner.

??? Huh?? You've lost me there. Are you just throwing random photographic words together?

I think it lost something in the translation from the Swedish. Or perhaps the statements only apply to pictures of barbecues and awnings that are pushed 4 stops in post.