Next Rebel Going EVF? [CR1]

[Sella174]

Those are different user groups. 70D / 7D / 7D2 guys value responsiveness as much as functions/features. They won't give up their OVFs anytime soon.

I fall in the 70D "grouping" and I gave up the OVF. (The decision on upgrading my 30D's was either the 70D or the X-T1. And I chose ... 8))

The 7D2 is for me a conundrum: great camera, iffy native lenses. But that aside, obviously Canon cannot improve the EOS-M to this level, both technologically and fiscally.

I just think one sweeping EOS-M upgrade that addresses the major needs of mirrorless devotees -- an EVF, more responsive focusing, better grip, etc. -- will still allow a smaller form factor camera to take pictures in more arenas.

Call me negative, but I think it is too late for Canon. Everyone who wants those things in a primary camera has already bought a Panasonic, FUJIFILM, Olympus or Sony camera and lenses. Unless Canon can do it cheaper, but then we won't be getting "an EVF, more responsive focusing, better grip, etc."

But if it's the inevitable future, why run from it?

What else is there to do?

 

[ahsanford]

Those are different user groups. 70D / 7D / 7D2 guys value responsiveness as much as functions/features. They won't give up their OVFs anytime soon.

I fall in the 70D "grouping" and I gave up the OVF. (The decision on upgrading my 30D's was either the 70D or the X-T1. And I chose ... 8))

The 7D2 is for me a conundrum: great camera, iffy native lenses. But that aside, obviously Canon cannot improve the EOS-M to this level, both technologically and fiscally.

That's the weird bit. I almost now see the 70D as the top end crop camera for all-purpose use, and I see the 7D2 (by any measure, a better rig) becoming more of the specialist reach/sports tool for better funded shooters -- i.e. most of the reach-limited folks who will be bolting superteles on to their new 7D2 probably aren't sad about the lack of high-quality ultrawide and 'wider standard zoom' options for it. : To those folks, the 7D2 becomes a crop teleconverter for big glass to do more for them.

So I just don't see the 7D2 as something you buy for standard FL use. It's the reach camera. No need for standard FLs on it. If you really need great 16-something / 24-something FF equivalent, the 7D2 might not be the camera for you. It might be time to look into a 6D or used 5D3 to tap into that great EF glass.

I know that's a minority position, but hey.

- A

 

[iron-t]

Quite a debate. I think if this rumor is true it will take this form: EVF replaces mirror assembly; body size (particularly thickness front to back) is reduced but retains general shape of Rebel series including body height; EF-M mount; kits include EF-M to EF adapter; only larger size, hand grip, battery, body material (black/white polymer), dial configuration and EVF differentiate from next EOS-M; Canon retains either some Rebel models with mirrors (and native EF-S mount) or creates a new line for those products; and Canon does not introduce many more EF-M lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

Quite a debate. I think if this rumor is true it will take this form: EVF replaces mirror assembly; body size (particularly thickness front to back) is reduced but retains general shape of Rebel series including body height; EF-M mount; kits include EF-M to EF adapter; only larger size, hand grip, battery, body material (black/white polymer), dial configuration and EVF differentiate from next EOS-M; Canon retains either some Rebel models with mirrors (and native EF-S mount) or creates a new line for those products; and Canon does not introduce many more EF-M lenses.

I never put it together that way, but that's clever --> it'd be an EOS-M with a decent grip like a Rebel. That might be the 'EOS-M3' everyone has been waiting for.

- A

 

[Sella174]

So I just don't see the 7D2 as something you buy for standard FL use. It's the reach camera. No need for standard FLs on it.

You're probably absolutely right. I wonder what the kit lens will be ... an EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM lens?

 

[Lee Jay]

...most of the reach-limited folks who will be bolting superteles on to their new 7D2 probably aren't sad about the lack of high-quality ultrawide and 'wider standard zoom' options for it.

High quality ultrawide options don't seem to me to be lacking at all - 10-22, 10-18, 10mm fisheye, 10-17 zoom fisheye, 11-16/2.8, 10-20, 8-16, 12-28, 10-24, and so on.

Now, standard zooms that actually start at 24mm equivalent is a huge problem. There's just one, the 15-85IS. The huge rash of 16,17,18-xx zooms out there just annoy the heck out of me.

 

[c.d.embrey]

High quality ultrawide options don't seem to me to be lacking at all - 10-22, 10-18, 10mm fisheye, 10-17 zoom fisheye, 11-16/2.8, 10-20, 8-16, 12-28, 10-24, and so on.

No interest in Big/Bulky/Slow zoomz Where are the small/light/fast primes ??? Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic have wide/fast primes

 

[Lee Jay]

High quality ultrawide options don't seem to me to be lacking at all - 10-22, 10-18, 10mm fisheye, 10-17 zoom fisheye, 11-16/2.8, 10-20, 8-16, 12-28, 10-24, and so on.

No interest in Big/Bulky/Slow zoomz Where are the small/light/fast primes ??? Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic have wide/fast primes

Well, I use a 15mm/2.8 fisheye on full-frame, and the 10mm f/2.8 for crop seems to be quite good as well.

 

[distant.star]

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[CR1] No further comment.

 

[ecka]

EOS Mebel?

 

[Policar]

Rebels always had bad viewfinders. Entry-level shooters prefer WISYWIG though god knows anyone who has a clue what they're doing prefers optical finders.

I can see it happening. Although between the Rebel line and the C100 Canon has proven their adeptness at making any kind of finder horrible lol.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Mirrorless & no moving parts would make it difficult to wear out. Image quality goes up when mirror bounce is removed. +++ I use live view for critical work- big difference. If it will take all my big glass, I'd be very tempted to give it a try. Also, the lack of moving parts would open the door to a higher frame rate. +++++++
It would be nice to be able to shoot video without holding the damn thing 2 feet out in front of you- especially with a "big white" attached. Should be interesting.

 

[AvTvM]

Mirrorless & no moving parts would make it difficult to wear out. Image quality goes up when mirror bounce is removed. +++ I use live view for critical work- big difference. If it will take all my big glass, I'd be very tempted to give it a try. Also, the lack of moving parts would open the door to a higher frame rate. +++++++
It would be nice to be able to shoot video without holding the damn thing 2 feet out in front of you- especially with a "big white" attached. Should be interesting.

exactly. I am looking forweard to SSCs .. solid stae cameras. 100% mechanics-free. Fully electronic, Global Shutter. No noise. No slapping. No flapping. No cocking. No springing. No vibration. YES!

Last element to get rid of will be mechanical apertures - replace with electro-translucent LCD or similar. Always perfectly circular at any f-stop. Smaller unit. And no miore mechanical focus gears and focus rings. Everything by wire. Makes .. smaller lenses. And better wheathersealed ones, too. Pancakes galore. Plus tiny f/4 zooms all the way to 135 mm. All of them dirt cheap like EF-M lenses. And optically more than "good enough". For me. And most enthusiasts. All the others may just go and buy Leica and Zeiss Otusses. 8)

 

[Lee Jay]

Oh boy. I've had exactly two viewfinders die in my life. One was an EVF, one was an LCD.

An electrochromic aperture isn't an aperture, it's an ND filter. You can reduce light that way but you can't stop down to change DOF.

 

[keriboi]

Does anyone not think it is strange that its so far away? Q2?
Maybe it is going to be a big step up and be a direct competetor to the 70D so they are wating to get as many 70D sales out. 80D will then be released Q3?

 

[brad-man]

Mirrorless & no moving parts would make it difficult to wear out. Image quality goes up when mirror bounce is removed. +++ I use live view for critical work- big difference. If it will take all my big glass, I'd be very tempted to give it a try. Also, the lack of moving parts would open the door to a higher frame rate. +++++++
It would be nice to be able to shoot video without holding the damn thing 2 feet out in front of you- especially with a "big white" attached. Should be interesting.

exactly. I am looking forweard to SSCs .. solid stae cameras. 100% mechanics-free. Fully electronic, Global Shutter. No noise. No slapping. No flapping. No cocking. No springing. No vibration. YES!

Last element to get rid of will be mechanical apertures - replace with electro-translucent LCD or similar. Always perfectly circular at any f-stop. Smaller unit. And no miore mechanical focus gears and focus rings. Everything by wire. Makes .. smaller lenses. And better wheathersealed ones, too. Pancakes galore. Plus tiny f/4 zooms all the way to 135 mm. All of them dirt cheap like EF-M lenses. And optically more than "good enough". For me. And most enthusiasts. All the others may just go and buy Leica and Zeiss Otusses. 8)

And they all lived happily ever after, never worrying about shutter count/failure. Now if they could only make the lenses just as rugged...

 

[Woody]

Call me negative, but I think it is too late for Canon. Everyone who wants those things in a primary camera has already bought a Panasonic, FUJIFILM, Olympus or Sony camera and lenses.

What Canon brings to the table for me:
i) customer service (may vary according to where one lives) is great where I am
ii) backward compatibility with wide range of EF and EF-S lenses, e.g., neither Panasonic, Fujifilm, Olympus or Sony has a > 150 mm (FF equivalent) 1:1 macro lens; I can adapt an EF 100 mm macro lens on EF-M camera without significant loss in AF capability...
iii) compatibility with ACR/Lightroom: Adobe has problems with Fujifilm RAW files
iv) accessories, e.g., Panasonic, Fujifilm, Olympus and Sony all have gaps with respect to wired and wireless remotes

 

[AvTvM]

Oh boy. I've had exactly two viewfinders die in my life. One was an EVF, one was an LCD.

An electrochromic aperture isn't an aperture, it's an ND filter. You can reduce light that way but you can't stop down to change DOF.

of course you can. it just needs to be engineered to make the translucent portion perfectly round and variable in size.

like here, for example: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/06/future-smartphone-cameras-may-use-a-micro-electrochromic-iris-made-from-smart-glass-eliminating-the-use-of-actuators.html

I don't care, HOW they make it. I just want it to be perfectly round, 100% mechanics and vibration-free, small, light and designed for 10 million actuations.

 

[Lee Jay]

Oh boy. I've had exactly two viewfinders die in my life. One was an EVF, one was an LCD.

An electrochromic aperture isn't an aperture, it's an ND filter. You can reduce light that way but you can't stop down to change DOF.

of course you can. it just needs to be engineered to make the translucent portion perfectly round and variable in size.

Then it's going to have to be a high resolution, high transmission, high contrast screen that doesn't create new reflections or cause other optical aberrations since it's going to be in the light path.

And when is the last time you had trouble with a mechanical aperture?

 

[AvTvM]

And when is the last time you had trouble with a mechanical aperture?

Never. But I want "better and smaller". 100% mechanics-free. Electronic apertures are a necessary part for future Solid State Cameras with functionality that far surpasses the hybrid-half-mechanical machines of yesterday and today. At least until we really move on to lightfield imaging devices.