Nikon D5 with 4K - Bring it on 1dx2

[9VIII]

153 Focus points Crazy? when most folks will switch to center point. But who am I to say!

I definitely agree.
Unless they start giving us eye detection for birds I'm almost never going to use the full AF grid, or else I want a fast toggle to switch between AF modes.
Wait a minute...

(Edit: the 7DMkII does have a thumb lever for rapid AF mode switching, once again showing Canon are masters of the User Interface. Hopefully that starts showing up on all the other high end bodies, bird photography can't be the only application for something like that.)

 

[rfdesigner]

Have you noticed that Nikon did two versions of its D5? One with two slots of XQD card, and a different version, with two Compact Flash card slots.

It seems that the buzz about D500 is overshadowing the flagship D5 ... ???

The D500 is definitely creating more of a buzz and it is easy to see why. It is very similar to the D5 but costs three times less at launch - something which will likely increase further over time, as the D500 may fall in price quicker than the D5. Hats off to them for creating such an interesting camera.

When I first read that there are two versions of the D5 I was shocked. I really hope Canon do not do that.

If I was a D4 or D4S owner I really am not sure if I would be happy with the D5, and would be looking very closely at the D500 - or waiting to see what Canon do with the 1D X II. I mean what's that 3 minute 4K video limit all about?!! Yes, I know you can record externally for longer, but that just means you need to carry more stuff etc. etc.

If Canon starts doing silly things like that, I would be unlikely to upgrade.

Can you really record externally for longer?.. I haven't noticed that spec. Assumng 8MByte / frame an 30fps you can still record more than 3 minutes onto a 64G card, so I don't think it's memory that's limiting the3minutes. I'm willing to bet you can sling all you like on the outside of the D5 and you'll still be limited to 3 minutes otherwise the spec would say "3 minutes limit for internal recording" or something.

 

[tpatana]

I would careless with or without 4k in 1dx II. Just keep that price around $6k

+1

 

[tpatana]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion.

Well, it totally depends on the noise it delivers. Can't tell until we see. Maybe the 3M is as good as 1DX at 50k? Hell yeah, that'd kick ass. So until they give idea of the actual performance, it's just guessing if 3M or 100k will be usable.

The specs of the D5 to be fair might just have Canon hitting the pause button on the 1Dxii announcement.

Nah, with the electronics cycle, if they want to deliver before olympics (which they will), the factories are ramping up soon. Not much time for last minute changes anymore.

The D500 is far more interesting to me, it knocks any Canon crop body completely out of the water if it performs well. I can't see any current Canon body, 7Dii or 70D being upgraded to compete with it if Canon choose to do so, new line I'd guess, 4D or 8D maybe? It took 5 years to update the 7D and to be honest it was a pretty unambitious update.

Yes, the D500 is something. That really stirs the mid-budget field.

 

[Proscribo]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion.

Well, it totally depends on the noise it delivers. Can't tell until we see. Maybe the 3M is as good as 1DX at 50k? Hell yeah, that'd kick ass. So until they give idea of the actual performance, it's just guessing if 3M or 100k will be usable.

But don't we already have so good high-ISO performance that even one stop jump would be significant? Better would require getting rid of bayer sensors for example, so even 100k being as good as 1dx's 25k sounds pretty far from truth. :-\

 

[expatinasia]

Have you noticed that Nikon did two versions of its D5? One with two slots of XQD card, and a different version, with two Compact Flash card slots.

It seems that the buzz about D500 is overshadowing the flagship D5 ... ???

The D500 is definitely creating more of a buzz and it is easy to see why. It is very similar to the D5 but costs three times less at launch - something which will likely increase further over time, as the D500 may fall in price quicker than the D5. Hats off to them for creating such an interesting camera.

When I first read that there are two versions of the D5 I was shocked. I really hope Canon do not do that.

If I was a D4 or D4S owner I really am not sure if I would be happy with the D5, and would be looking very closely at the D500 - or waiting to see what Canon do with the 1D X II. I mean what's that 3 minute 4K video limit all about?!! Yes, I know you can record externally for longer, but that just means you need to carry more stuff etc. etc.

If Canon starts doing silly things like that, I would be unlikely to upgrade.

Can you really record externally for longer?.. I haven't noticed that spec. Assumng 8MByte / frame an 30fps you can still record more than 3 minutes onto a 64G card, so I don't think it's memory that's limiting the3minutes. I'm willing to bet you can sling all you like on the outside of the D5 and you'll still be limited to 3 minutes otherwise the spec would say "3 minutes limit for internal recording" or something.

I am pretty sure that I read it is just internal recording which is limited to 3 minutes and only on the D5, but I may be wrong. These are the (really weird) specs:

3 minutes at high quality only for 4K UHD 3840 x 2160/24/25/30p recording

10 minutes at highest quality or 20 minutes at normal quality setting for 1920 x 1080/50/60p recording

20 minutes at highest quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, 1920 x 1080/50/60p and 640 x 424/25/30p

29 minutes 59 seconds at normal quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, and 1920 x 1080/50/60p

That info is from Nikon USA website.

Matt Granger in his YouTube video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqTeahNF1w noted that:

the d500 will do 4K 29.59 internal in one recording, but it splits the file into 3 minute chunks. The D5 is flat out limited to 3 mins recording.

 

[tpatana]

I am pretty sure that I read it is just internal recording which is limited to 3 minutes and only on the D5, but I may be wrong. These are the (really weird) specs:

3 minutes at high quality only for 4K UHD 3840 x 2160/24/25/30p recording

10 minutes at highest quality or 20 minutes at normal quality setting for 1920 x 1080/50/60p recording

20 minutes at highest quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, 1920 x 1080/50/60p and 640 x 424/25/30p

29 minutes 59 seconds at normal quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, and 1920 x 1080/50/60p

That info is from Nikon USA website.

Matt Granger in his YouTube video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqTeahNF1w noted that:

the d500 will do 4K 29.59 internal in one recording, but it splits the file into 3 minute chunks. The D5 is flat out limited to 3 mins recording.

I think it's physical size. They couldn't fit heat sink in D5, but D500 has two more zeroes so those are easy to fill with heat spreading material.

 

[expatinasia]

No idea, but the 1D C which is the same size as the 1D X can do it and has no such limitations. Really weird.

I did not know the D500 was cutting the 4k into 3-minute segments. That makes both cameras totally unsuitable for the video work I do with DSLR, and I doubt I am alone. Very weird decision from Nikon, but I am sure Canon are loving all this!

 

[expatinasia]

I wonder if this is a file size problem rather than a heat one?

That this is perceived to be a problem is interesting. If you go on set to a movie or tv show, there are very very few takes longer than 3 minutes.

Yes, but I, and am sure many others, do a lot of other video work which is well over 5, 10 even 15-20 minutes long.

I have only broke the 29:59 barrier on the 1D X twice and the image break was just 2 or 3 seconds while I restarted the recording. Thankfully I was recording sound externally so I could keep the sound going even through the black screen, but 3-minutes is totally unusable for me.

 

[Maui5150]

I wonder if this is a file size problem rather than a heat one?

That this is perceived to be a problem is interesting. If you go on set to a movie or tv show, there are very very few takes longer than 3 minutes.

Yes, but I, and am sure many others, do a lot of other video work which is well over 5, 10 even 15-20 minutes long.

I have only broke the 29:59 barrier on the 1D X twice and the image break was just 2 or 3 seconds while I restarted the recording. Thankfully I was recording sound externally so I could keep the sound going even through the black screen, but 3-minutes is totally unusable for me.

3 Minute 4K Video would be like having a camera that shoots 50MB Raw files, but uses a new card format that only has 2GB cards available.

I have started doing a lot of video work, especially events, and sometimes dealing with 35 files off of 2 cameras shot over 2 hours can be time consuming. a lot of my clips are 7 - 10 minutes, many 20 or so. 3 Minutes??? Why bother

 

[rfdesigner]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion.

Well, it totally depends on the noise it delivers. Can't tell until we see. Maybe the 3M is as good as 1DX at 50k? Hell yeah, that'd kick ass. So until they give idea of the actual performance, it's just guessing if 3M or 100k will be usable.

But don't we already have so good high-ISO performance that even one stop jump would be significant? Better would require getting rid of bayer sensors for example, so even 100k being as good as 1dx's 25k sounds pretty far from truth. :-\

I would say that three stops are available without dropping Bayer. (Quantum efficiency and Read Noise.. QE could jump from ~50% 400-700nm average, to 90% average & RN could drop from ~2.5e to ~0.5e before you're limited by quantisation of the original signal)

Dropping bayer will buy almost 2 stops.

After that you need a larger format camera.

 

[zim]

Maybe Nikon have deliberately 'crippled' the camera 8)

 

[Pancho]

I have read that the 4K recording on Nikon D500 and D5 is done with the center of the sensor only, bringing a factor of 2.2x on the equivalent focal length.
(read here: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/appareil-photo-numerique/nikon-d500-p30677/ces-2016-cette-fois-y-est-nikon-d500-est-enfin-n48705.html sorry, in french...).
So, for the kit lens of the D500 which starts at 18mm, the equivalent FF focal will be 60mm! quite huge for video no?

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

I have read that the 4K recording on Nikon D500 and D5 is done with the center of the sensor only, bringing a factor of 2.2x on the equivalent focal length.
(read here: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/appareil-photo-numerique/nikon-d500-p30677/ces-2016-cette-fois-y-est-nikon-d500-est-enfin-n48705.html sorry, in french...).
So, for the kit lens of the D500 which starts at 18mm, the equivalent FF focal will be 60mm! quite huge for video no?

If only the center of the sensor is used to record 4K video, the lenses will be less wide angle. But not as much as its calculation says:

I do not read French, but reading the website link you quoted, I understood that the total crop factor is 2.2X.

4K has 8 megapixel resolution approximately in proportion 16x9. As the D500 sensor has nearly 21 megapexel in proportion 3x2, a lens a 18mm will have viewing angle around 26mm APS-C, or equivalent to 39mm on full frame.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

D500 also does 4k so what the heck is Canon's excuse with all the talk about how they still see 4k as only a 1DX2 level feature if the rumors are to be believed?

And the Sony A7R II already delivers not just 4k, but oversampled very high quality (other than being unfortunately stuck at 8bit instead of 10bit) 4k.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

D500 also does 4k so what the heck is Canon's excuse with all the talk about how they still see 4k as only a 1DX2 level feature if the rumors are to be believed?

And the Sony A7R II already delivers not just 4k, but oversampled very high quality (other than being unfortunately stuck at 8bit instead of 10bit) 4k.

The Nikon DSLR to date had bit rate for video less than the Canon, and this explains why no serious professional makes videos with Nikon. It is possible that the new D5 and D500 change it, but I seriously doubt that these cameras will have bit rate in 4K as good as Canon 1DC.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

Am I missing something here? What idiot buys a 1DX/D4S/D5 etc etc for video? I have the 1DX for over 2 years and don't even know how to turn the video function on - let alone care to find out!
Were I a video shooter there are far superior options that are usually cheaper too.
All that matters with the D5 is 1. is it reliable and 2. have they got the AF sorted out? If they have done both of these then it will be a significant improvement over it's predecessors and a great advance for Nikon stills shooters. I sincerely hope it is as they need a boost - the last one was the excellent D3 but that was quite a while ago!

 

[boozed]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time

But at least it'll be a very short time.

 

[dolina]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time

But at least it'll be a very short time.

ISO 3m is useful for photojournalist or paparazzi who can take photos of say Angelina Jolie kissing someone other than Brad Pitt.

The photo's image quality may be ignored by people on CR but a lot of news outlets would pay 10x the value of the D5 for exclusive rights to the image.

 

[Loswr]

ISO 3m will be a waste of time

But at least it'll be a very short time.

ISO 3m is useful for photojournalist or paparazzi who can take photos of say Angelina Jolie kissing someone other than Brad Pitt.

The photo's image quality may be ignored by people on CR but a lot of news outlets would pay 10x the value of the D5 for exclusive rights to the image.

There's Angelina kissing Rob on a rooftop, do you see?